Long hair in the Civil Air Patrol?

[Cowanthunder]

Hi everyone,
I am interested in the CAP and had a question.

I am a male and have very neatly kept hair that is past my shoulders.  I wash it regularly and it's never greasy or not presentable.  I wear it pulled back at work and I work in a professional environment at LexisNexis.  It is not a problem there and was wondering the requirements for the CAP.  I keep a very small mustache too but can stay clean shaven on the rest of my face. 


I appreciate any input on this topic.

Thanks,

Deia

[Eclipse]

Not an issue in regards to membership.

There are several uniform variants which allow for long hair, these are referred to as the "Corporate" combinations, including a blue BDU-like field uniform, blue flight suit, blue utility jumpsuit, aviator "whites", and a blazer uniform for more formal occasions.

The USAF combination and new(er) Corporate Service uniform would not be options for long hair or facial hair.

[davidsinn]

Hi everyone,
I am interested in the CAP and had a question.

I am a male and have very neatly kept hair that is past my shoulders.  I wash it regularly and it's never greasy or not presentable.  I wear it pulled back at work and I work in a professional environment at LexisNexis.  It is not a problem there and was wondering the requirements for the CAP.  I keep a very small mustache too but can stay clean shaven on the rest of my face. 


I appreciate any input on this topic.

Thanks,

Deia

If you only wear a corporate style uniform (excepting the CSU or "blue and whites") such as the polo, white and grays, blazer, blue BDU, blue utility or blue flight suit it's not a problem at all. Should you wish to wear ANY USAF style uniform then you  must cut your hair per M39-1(last page) The mustache is not a problem in any of the corporate uniforms except CSU. If you wear the CSU or any AF style uniform then the facial hair must comply with the last page of 39-1. A mustache is allowed it just must meet certain requirements.

Welcome aboard. I suggest you take notes there's a lot to learn.

edit: Eclipse beat me to it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^What he said.^^

You'll find all sorts of uniforms and hairstyles in the CAP.

It sounds like you're a professional, and that's one thing CAP needs.

I think the two main stipulations are that you have to wear a uniform when working with cadets, and on flying missions (correction gladly accepted from others knowing more than I).  Like Eclipse said, the "Corporate" uniforms, except for the blue/white one, are all acceptable.

Have you found a unit near you?  If not, here's a link to try:

http://cap.findlocation.com/

Good luck. :clap:

EDIT: Lt. Sinn beat me to it!

[SarDragon]

Welcome to a potential firestorm.

As for the specifics of the reg, IMHO it vaguely suggests that hair length approach conformance with AF standards in that area, though many will argue that. If you are working with cadets, I would recommend ditching the long hair. It sets a poor example. Lacking a beard, the moustache should conform to the CAPM 39-1 standard. Again, others will argue the point. This is my interpretation of a vaguely written reg.

I, myself, have a beard, but my hair conforms to the set standard. It has caused me problems in the past, but not recently. I keep it neatly trimmed, mostly meeting the standards the Navy had when beards were still allowed. (They went away forever in Jan 1985.)

It will, in the end, depend on how well your appearance is accepted in your unit, group, and wing. If you get the evil eye all the time, then some trimmage might be in order. If not, enjoy your participation.

YMMV.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Welcome to a potential firestorm.

As for the specifics of the reg, IMHO it vaguely suggests that hair length approach conformance with AF standards in that area, though many will argue that. If you are working with cadets, I would recommend ditching the long hair. It sets a poor example. Lacking a beard, the moustache should conform to the CAPM 39-1 standard. Again, others will argue the point. This is my interpretation of a vaguely written reg.

I, myself, have a beard, but my hair conforms to the set standard. It has caused me problems in the past, but not recently. I keep it neatly trimmed, mostly meeting the standards the Navy had when beards were still allowed. (They went away forever in Jan 1985.)

It will, in the end, depend on how well your appearance is accepted in your unit, group, and wing. If you get the evil eye all the time, then some trimmage might be in order. If not, enjoy your participation.

YMMV.

I have to disagree on this one. As someone else said we need professionals in CAP. I attended a Training Leaders of Cadets with a gentleman with hair down to the middle of his back. I admit I was put off at first look. However, after speaking with him I had no doubts of his dedication to the cadet program.

[Short Field]

Follow the regulations - not someone's opinion on what they wish the regulations said. 

[a2capt]

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

The regulations are quite clear and very flexible. You should have no issues. Treat CAP as you do your professional environment and you'll be all set, and figure on the corporate gray uniforms.

[Airrace]

I would have no problem with it. We need all the quality help we can get at CAP. I would openly welcome you to join our squadron.

[Pingree1492]

Welcome to a potential firestorm.

As for the specifics of the reg, IMHO it vaguely suggests that hair length approach conformance with AF standards in that area, though many will argue that. If you are working with cadets, I would recommend ditching the long hair. It sets a poor example. Lacking a beard, the moustache should conform to the CAPM 39-1 standard. Again, others will argue the point. This is my interpretation of a vaguely written reg.

It will, in the end, depend on how well your appearance is accepted in your unit, group, and wing. If you get the evil eye all the time, then some trimmage might be in order. If not, enjoy your participation.

YMMV.

(throwing in my two cents):

I have to strongly disagree with the above.  If your personal preference is to wear your hair long, then go ahead and do it.  As long as your presenting a professional appearance while in uniform and at CAP activities, then no one should have a problem.  Having long hair as a man, or (in my case) very short hair as a woman isn't "setting a poor example" for cadets. 

Acting and behaving as a professional is a far more important example to be setting for cadets, and your ability to do that is in no way reflected by your hair length.

Welcome to CAP.

[jimmydeanno]

It will, in the end, depend on how well your appearance is accepted in your unit, group, and wing. If you get the evil eye all the time, then some trimmage might be in order. If not, enjoy your participation.

Others being uncomfortable with his hair style is not his problem.  NHQ's policy is quite clear - they accept that people have beards, mustaches, and long hair and have created policies and uniforms to accommodate those people, because they are valuable assets to our organization.

On a side note, I have never seen anyone get avoided, excluded, harassed, ostracized, etc for having long hair, or a beard, or a mustache. 

Join up, have fun and I hope to see you around some time!

[Nathan]

It will, in the end, depend on how well your appearance is accepted in your unit, group, and wing. If you get the evil eye all the time, then some trimmage might be in order. If not, enjoy your participation.

Others being uncomfortable with his hair style is not his problem.  NHQ's policy is quite clear - they accept that people have beards, mustaches, and long hair and have created policies and uniforms to accommodate those people, because they are valuable assets to our organization.

Roger that. The regs protect it, like they would protect a religion that someone might be uncomfortable with. We don't tend to pander to those who base ability purely off of their personal ideas of professional appearance.

[SarDragon]

Today's attitudes are very different from (and better than) those in 1978 and 1989. I had problems at both times, in two different wings, because I had a beard. The first time i was on active duty in the navy, and the second time was just after I retired.

I am happy to say that I was welcomed when I resumed participation in 1999. There are many more members with beards now, than there were 20 yrs ago.

My post above reflects possibilities, slim that they may be, and not necessarily the predominant state of affairs. There are still some folks out there who dislike and disapprove of beards on CAP members.

YMMV.

[wingnut55]

I had a member give me grief about my hair being over the ears while in the Polo shirt. Later I found out he wears woman's underwear underneath his cloths?? I guess we just have to deal with all types of characters in the grand poo-pa.

[DC]

I had a member give me grief about my hair being over the ears while in the Polo shirt. Later I found out he wears woman's underwear underneath his cloths?? I guess we just have to deal with all types of characters in the grand poo-pa.

Um, okay then...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I had a member give me grief about my hair being over the ears while in the Polo shirt. Later I found out he wears woman's underwear underneath his cloths?? I guess we just have to deal with all types of characters in the grand poo-pa.

Um, okay then...

I think that fits under the TMI category.

[Cowanthunder]

Thanks for all the great responses!  I feel much better now.  I have been in love with flying since I was old enough to breathe!    Growing up I wanted to be an astronaut or fighter pilot.  I am very professional and I am a computer technician.  My employer sets a very high professional standard.  I am in the Dayton, OH area and thought Wright Patterson might have a squadron.

Once again I thank you all for the replies.  I have a few other questions but will save those for the appropriate forum topics. 

[Mustang]

I attended a Training Leaders of Cadets with a gentleman with hair down to the middle of his back. I admit I was put off at first look. However, after speaking with him I had no doubts of his dedication to the cadet program.

In my experience, cadets are not so forgiving of first impressions.

[Gunner C]

I attended a Training Leaders of Cadets with a gentleman with hair down to the middle of his back. I admit I was put off at first look. However, after speaking with him I had no doubts of his dedication to the cadet program.

In my experience, cadets are not so forgiving of first impressions.

He shouldn't be in a unit with cadets unless he can set the proper example.  It does no good to set standards for cadets for grooming and then have their leaders have another.  The old saying "a double standard is better than no standards at all" doesn't work.  Sorry, it's one thing to have long hair for SMs but telling cadets that good grooming is important and showing a different example?  They'll see that what we preach as being important is baloney.  Can't have it both ways.

[Fubar]

Sorry, it's one thing to have long hair for SMs but telling cadets that good grooming is important and showing a different example?

You raise an interesting philosophical conundrum we face with the cadet program. We expect our cadets to meet certain military-style regulations but the program itself is not run by the military. That means you have civilians, who under CAP regulations are not required to meet military-style regulations showing up at their meetings and in some cases where cadet squadrons are not cadet run - actually in charge!

Also, I don't see a male with long hair setting a bad grooming example. If anything, I'm jealous he has hair period. I suspect your point was a male with long hair setting a bad example of military grooming, which the guy probably isn't aspiring (nor required) to meet, not that any guy with long hair is an example of poor grooming.

Has this sort of thing been discussed at the national level before? I suppose like any push for tighter regulations, there would be a concern over lost members, especially smaller cadet squadrons with only a couple of parents serving as senior members.