Shoulder Cords on BDU

[BuckeyeDEJ]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been.

That may be a bit overbroad.  Factually, shoulder cords are sometimes worn on the BDU.  Heck, I've seen them being worn.  And as others have pointed out, the regulations appear to allow the wing commander to authorize them if she/he feels it is approptiate and necessary.

In my 25 years in CAP, across three regions, I've never seen it. The funky "Ranger" tabs, yes, and some other individual-wing emblems, but never a dress-uniform item.

The only people I ever see wearing them on BDUs or other similar uniforms are members of the Vietnam Veterans of America in parades. And they wear ribbons and everything else. (No offense to Vietnam vets, folks.)

There is no practical way to wear them,

Yeah, kinda like shoulderboards for cadet officers, but there you go. 

The cadet officer shoulder boards used to be easier to deal with. Now, they're Velcro. CAP should go to the same attaching system AFROTC uses. (Mine were attached with snaps. They didn't come off that easily.)

Truth be told, as an aside, I wouldn't mind if the cadet officer rank system went to the same system as AFROTC, with blank boards and stripe braid. It'd be one less thing to learn -- the stripe system is used elsewhere in the military, unlike the moonpies and diamonds our cadets wear now. The boards would probably be cheaper, or at least easier to manage.

. . . plus there is no need.

You and I might certainly feel that way, but it really only matters if the wing commander thinks there is a need.  And generally, we should support commanders in the exercise of their discretion, even if we might personally disagree.

I won't disobey an order, though I might occasionally question the wisdom of one.

The BDU is a utility uniform . . . and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Somebody better tell all those cadets at Oshkosh to get the heck off the flight line before somebody sees them!

Har, har. Seriously, I know they wear BDU at Oshkosh and at other "work" activities. And that's OK. But it's a uniform we really need to be keen about wearing around non-CAP people. And I hope at least a public affairs officer at Oshkosh and other similar activities is in blues....

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

I don't disagree here, except it is the common sense and practicality of our volunteer leaders, not you or me.

Yes, but you and I don't have a monopoly on common sense. While it might be nice if it were that way, we'd have more about which we would complain! Maybe we'd even be wearing stars right now.

Before this thread gets locked, let's get back on topic. Shoulder cords are not a BDU item. Maybe the new CAPM 39-1, if and when it's published, should give more exacting language where it may not be... lest someone with eagles on his shoulders say it's OK to wear ribbons on the BDU, too!

[JesusFreak]

J-F,

That is weird. What branch of JROTC are you seeing like this? Maybe Army? Of course it depends school by school, but in AFJROTC I graduated as our unit cadet commander (C/Lt Col) and had just four medals (one national award each year) out of the 6.5 rows of ribbons I had. Not one of my 150+ cadets had more than four medals; most had 3 or less.
<shrug>
It probably depends on where you are. It really depends on how you look at things.... 10 things that were easy to get, or 3 things you really had to work your butt off to get? There was a time when making E-2 was a big deal... not so much any more, except for maybe the USMC. There were millions of E-1's fighting in WWII, and now I dont think that rank sees the light of day outside basic traning.

If you have to work for it, it will mean something to YOU. Those around you will know what it means too. You'll note that if you compare the twopics up top, besides that anaconda shoulder cord she is wearing, the JROTC cadet only has 2 more ribbons than the CAP cadet.

I've seen it at Nellis AFB, AFJROTC members had like 15 medals or so.

[PHall]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

Next time you're on an Air Force AETC Tech School base, look around, you'll see shoulder cords worn on BDU's and now ABU's, everywhere.

The closest base to you would be Keesler AFB, Mississippi. But you can also find them at Lackland AFB, Texas, Sheppard AFB, Texas, Goodfellow AFB, Texas and at the AETC facility at Vandenberg AFB, California.

Ref. AFI36-2903 AETCSUP1, Para 3.1.1

[lordmonar]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

Actually the answer has been given.....and you are 100% wrong....on just about all counts.

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's, there is an easy way to attach them (safety pin).  I can think of several reasons to wear them (ID your CAC rep, Cadet of the Month, and ID leaders at encampment, just to name three).  There is NO restrictions on wearing BDU's in public.  The only count you are correct on is that BDUs are a field uniform...so I would not encourage anyone to wear cords in the field....but other than that I see no problem with it.

[c/A1C Johnson]

it does not specify witch unifrom you can or cant wear it on really people just dont do it becuase they just hear someone say no and dont investigate further really the regs dont say so its pretty much personel prefence and also up to your commander

[Pylon]

it does not specify witch unifrom you can or cant wear it on really people just dont do it becuase they just hear someone say no and dont investigate further really the regs dont say so its pretty much personel prefence and also up to your commander

Bingo.   :clap:

If the commander finds its use is warranted, go for it.

[brasda91]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the arguement that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

[CadetProgramGuy]

After reading this topic, the twitch in my left eye got worse......

[lordmonar]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

Gee....I usually follow regulations not history and tradition.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the arguement that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

I don't understand your argument.  The regulation says you can wear it....and that is all.  It does not say you can wear it on blues, or you can wear it on BDU's or only on blues or only on BDUs.  It says you can wear it.....and that is all.  With out any other other guidance we can assume that it can be worn on all uniform combinations.

Just because in your experince you have never seen it does not make that the "rule" for everyone.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

Sorry but you can't use the common sense rule at all....if we could use that rule we would have been allowed to wear Gortex Jackets and Boonie Hats for a long time.

If national had intened for the cords to be only on blues...it should have said "for blues only".

[Eclipse]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.

For better or worse they are relatively common as encampment staff designators.

I went through some of the CS "funny uniform posts" to find a pic, but most of the links are dead.

[brasda91]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

Gee....I usually follow regulations not history and tradition.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the argument that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

I don't understand your argument.  The regulation says you can wear it....and that is all.  It does not say you can wear it on blues, or you can wear it on BDU's or only on blues or only on BDUs.  It says you can wear it.....and that is all.  With out any other other guidance we can assume that it can be worn on all uniform combinations.

Just because in your experience you have never seen it does not make that the "rule" for everyone.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

Sorry but you can't use the common sense rule at all....if we could use that rule we would have been allowed to wear Gortex Jackets and Boonie Hats for a long time.

If national had intended for the cords to be only on blues...it should have said "for blues only".

A check of the knowledge base returned this statement:  Note: Shoulder cords are authorized with the service coat or the AF blue shirt only.

I'm not saying we should not follow the regs.  Historically, cords have not been worn on BDU's.  But once again, it also states for special purpose activities, not for just routine day to day wear.

If you haven't been wearing a Gortex jacket before now, that's your decision.  It could have been worn for years, as it is classified as an outergarment.

[lordmonar]

First....Knowledge base is not regulatory.

Second...common sense is not that common.

Listen I am following the regulation.  It's that simple...if national wants to change it...then they can issue an ICL and update the reg.  I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long.

[arajca]

First....Knowledge base is not regulatory.

Second...common sense is not that common.

Listen I am following the regulation.  It's that simple...if national wants to change it...then they can issue an ICL and update the reg.  I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long.

It's a UNIFORM discussion. whaddya expect?

[brasda91]

If you haven't been wearing a Gortex jacket before now, that's your decision.  It could have been worn for years, as it is classified as an outergarment.

Nice try - maybe in bright red, but the camo Gore-Tex jacket is clearly a uniform item, and therefore requires the authorization by the USAF for wear.

If for no other reason than >ANYTHING< worn under, over, or on the USAF-Style uniforms is strictly governed and defined.

Do you even understand the term "Outergarment"?  Worn outdoors and removed in an office environment. Use good judgment in choosing appropriate garments for wear based on weather conditions and duties.  Meaning members do not have to wear military issue cold weather jackets.  If they wish to wear a civilian jacket in order to stay warm during the winter, they have the ability to do so.

Obviously this has been brought to Nationals attention, due to this statement being posted in red.  Note: Shoulder cords are authorized with the service coat or the AF blue shirt only. The reference to cadets wearing the cords at all times refers to the previous policy that allowed color guards and drill teams to wear the cord only when performing. This clarification will be made in the first change to the manual.
SUSAN P. PARKER Deputy Director, Membership Services Voice: Toll free 877-227-9142 ext 212 or 334 953-7748 ext 212 Fax: 334 953-4262

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

[ColonelJack]

For whatever it may be worth ...

Back when I was active duty AF (1975), I was being processed for a medical discharge (long story there) and, during my two-week stay in casual flight, I encountered three or four people wearing shoulder cords with the old pickle suits.  They were flight leaders and assistant flight leaders, and since we wore the pickle suits daily they had to be indicated by the cords.

They sewed a fatigue button on their shoulder to attach the cord, and when their tour as FL or AFL was over, the button was removed.

There's precedent for cords on field uniforms.

Jack

[Pylon]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

[Pylon]

Thread side discussion about outergarments moved to its own thread:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4777.0

[brasda91]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

That's why she's paid.  Considering she's at National, she probably has inside knowledge of changes coming down the pipe, hence, the statement regarding the changes to be made.  And even until then, it doesn't mean you can wear cords with BDU's.  Had there been the desire for them to be worn that way, a picture showing the proper placement of the cord on the BDU's would have been provided.  As it is now, there is only pictures for wear on the Blues, Fig. 5-2.

[PHall]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

That's why she's paid.  Considering she's at National, she probably has inside knowledge of changes coming down the pipe, hence, the statement regarding the changes to be made.  And even until then, it doesn't mean you can wear cords with BDU's.  Had there been the desire for them to be worn that way, a picture showing the proper placement of the cord on the BDU's would have been provided.  As it is now, there is only pictures for wear on the Blues, Fig. 5-2.

Until she actually joins the organization and becomes the Commander, her opinions are just the opinions of a clerk who has absolutely no authority at all.

[mikeylikey]

^ Ouch!  I think she speaks for NHQ, and most likely has been a very strong advocate of the membership there for a few years now.  As a person who has met and worked with her, I would go on her opinion over anyone Else's here anyday.