New flag patch regulation.

[Ned]

Our squadron provides all ribbons and badges.  I require that they be worn with the blue shirt not to exercise any authority but to ensure the members (cadets and Seniors) know how to wear the uniform properly and that they maintain all earned badges and awards properly.

As a staff officer, it is my job to support commanders in the reasonable exercise of their discretion.  But I encourage commanders and unit-level cadet program officers to generally allow the cadets to lead in common situations involving uniforms.

Our program uses the uniform along with D & C and customs and courtesies as a critical leadership training tool.  Just as I would normally expect to see cadet NCOs and officers conducting uniform inspections, classes, on-the-spot corrections, I would normally expect the cadet commander and her/his staff set UOD requirements when drafting weekly meeting schedule and quarterly plans. 

Effective CP officers are indirect leaders who mentor and guide cadets by leading by example and asking critical questions of cadets as they lead their troops.  Obviously, cadet leaders make mistakes from time to time, just like every student.  But CP officers are there to help them understand their errors and learn from them in our Leadership Laboratory.

Obviously, we will not allow cadets to be unsafe, or endanger other cadets.  But the hallmark of the CAP Cadet Program is that we allow and require our cadets to lead (and follow) other cadets starting the moment they take the Oath.  Sometimes we can get in the way by assuming too much of the day-to-day decisions at the unit.

So, all things being equal, I'd ask that you reconsider the squadron wide mandatory "all ribbons all the time" rule and allow the cadets to set the UOD consistent with the training schedule. 

And let the seniors make their own choices.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

[Chappie]

You REQUIRE S/M Officers to wear their ribbons on the Blue shirt? Do you want them to look like enlisted USAF people? <SNIP>

There is CAP culture and USAF Culture.  CAP culture: senior members (officers) wear ribbons on their service shirt.   The only time that I will wear ribbons on my shirt is when participating in Encampment graduation...since that is the custom of the wing.  USAF Culture: Officers do not wear ribbons on their service shirt - service jacket only.   Hence the policy/practice of RSC and NSC of ribbons not being worn on the service shirt.  Most often these professional development courses are conducted on an USAF base....and in keeping with the custom of the host, ribbons are not worn.  I have one shirt reserved for ribbons and several that are for non-ribbons --- guess which gets the most wear?

[sarmed1]

You REQUIRE S/M Officers to wear their ribbons on the Blue shirt? Do you want them to look like enlisted USAF people? <SNIP>

There is CAP culture and USAF Culture.  CAP culture: senior members (officers) wear ribbons on their service shirt.   ...

I would say that is likely a product of there being more former Enlisted members coming to CAP than former Officers, so just as a matter of habit they do the same things they did while in the military.  I would have to say I never took notice in my time in the Big Green if the same thing happens, but I feel like it did?  (I also have to say except when I was in an Army Aviation unit, I never saw as many officers as I have since being in the AF, and certainly hardly ever in anything except BDU's, Tanker coveralls or flight suits.    I am pretty sure only recruiters wore greens......

MK

[kwe1009]

Our squadron provides all ribbons and badges.  I require that they be worn with the blue shirt not to exercise any authority but to ensure the members (cadets and Seniors) know how to wear the uniform properly and that they maintain all earned badges and awards properly.

As a staff officer, it is my job to support commanders in the reasonable exercise of their discretion.  But I encourage commanders and unit-level cadet program officers to generally allow the cadets to lead in common situations involving uniforms.

Our program uses the uniform along with D & C and customs and courtesies as a critical leadership training tool.  Just as I would normally expect to see cadet NCOs and officers conducting uniform inspections, classes, on-the-spot corrections, I would normally expect the cadet commander and her/his staff set UOD requirements when drafting weekly meeting schedule and quarterly plans. 

Effective CP officers are indirect leaders who mentor and guide cadets by leading by example and asking critical questions of cadets as they lead their troops.  Obviously, cadet leaders make mistakes from time to time, just like every student.  But CP officers are there to help them understand their errors and learn from them in our Leadership Laboratory.

Obviously, we will not allow cadets to be unsafe, or endanger other cadets.  But the hallmark of the CAP Cadet Program is that we allow and require our cadets to lead (and follow) other cadets starting the moment they take the Oath.  Sometimes we can get in the way by assuming too much of the day-to-day decisions at the unit.

So, all things being equal, I'd ask that you reconsider the squadron wide mandatory "all ribbons all the time" rule and allow the cadets to set the UOD consistent with the training schedule. 

And let the seniors make their own choices.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you for your wise advice as always.  The ribbons policy was actually a group decision by Senior and cadet leadership.  It wasn't something that I simply came up with but I do agree with it.  The logic behind it is the same as making Air Force basic trainees fold everything in 6-inch squares.  It is about following directions and also giving others another opportunity to show some leadership skills and help those who aren't doing it correctly. 

Wearing ribbons also helps with recruiting as visitors see a cadet with a lot of ribbons which may help their decision to join. 

UOD for each meeting is set by our cadet commander (blues, BDUs, PT, etc) but generally follows a pattern of blues twice per month and BDUs once. 

For the group, I honestly can't understand why requiring members to wear an optional item that is provided to them at zero cost is such a big deal.  The squadron patch is not mandatory per 39-1 either but we require all members to have it and it is also provided at no charge.  I see the two items as the same. 

[Abby.L]

Our squadron provides all ribbons and badges.  I require that they be worn with the blue shirt not to exercise any authority but to ensure the members (cadets and Seniors) know how to wear the uniform properly and that they maintain all earned badges and awards properly.

As a staff officer, it is my job to support commanders in the reasonable exercise of their discretion.  But I encourage commanders and unit-level cadet program officers to generally allow the cadets to lead in common situations involving uniforms.

Our program uses the uniform along with D & C and customs and courtesies as a critical leadership training tool.  Just as I would normally expect to see cadet NCOs and officers conducting uniform inspections, classes, on-the-spot corrections, I would normally expect the cadet commander and her/his staff set UOD requirements when drafting weekly meeting schedule and quarterly plans. 

Effective CP officers are indirect leaders who mentor and guide cadets by leading by example and asking critical questions of cadets as they lead their troops.  Obviously, cadet leaders make mistakes from time to time, just like every student.  But CP officers are there to help them understand their errors and learn from them in our Leadership Laboratory.

Obviously, we will not allow cadets to be unsafe, or endanger other cadets.  But the hallmark of the CAP Cadet Program is that we allow and require our cadets to lead (and follow) other cadets starting the moment they take the Oath.  Sometimes we can get in the way by assuming too much of the day-to-day decisions at the unit.

So, all things being equal, I'd ask that you reconsider the squadron wide mandatory "all ribbons all the time" rule and allow the cadets to set the UOD consistent with the training schedule. 

And let the seniors make their own choices.

Ned Lee
Col, CAP
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you for your wise advice as always.  The ribbons policy was actually a group decision by Senior and cadet leadership.  It wasn't something that I simply came up with but I do agree with it.  The logic behind it is the same as making Air Force basic trainees fold everything in 6-inch squares.  It is about following directions and also giving others another opportunity to show some leadership skills and help those who aren't doing it correctly. 

Wearing ribbons also helps with recruiting as visitors see a cadet with a lot of ribbons which may help their decision to join. 

UOD for each meeting is set by our cadet commander (blues, BDUs, PT, etc) but generally follows a pattern of blues twice per month and BDUs once. 

For the group, I honestly can't understand why requiring members to wear an optional item that is provided to them at zero cost is such a big deal.  The squadron patch is not mandatory per 39-1 either but we require all members to have it and it is also provided at no charge.  I see the two items as the same. 

This might just be my point of view, and is certainly just what I've noticed, but I'm gonna say what I always tell my AF buddy: There's a difference between the uniform and being uniform. The prior is what is covered per the regulations, and by the designation of a UOD. This just means that if the UOD is blues, for example, that everyone be wearing regulation-spec blues. The latter isn't covered by any regulation, and therefore, cannot be enforced due to the lack of regulation, and would include the wearing of certain blues outergarments or accouterments to match everyone else, though not required by regulations. The problem is, however, that people confuse the latter with the prior, and vice versa. The problem with requiring the wear of optional items is just that: It's an optional item. There is no authority to require such items, unless you go as far as making, submitting, and having a 39-1 supplement approved for the squadron. Another problem with requiring such items, is, again, the cost of these items. Though you might cover and get everything for everyone(That causes problems of its own), there is always the cost to replace these items when they wear out, replacing lost items, or in the case of patches, paying the tailor to sew them on(I know they can sew them on themselves, but lets be honest, who actually does that?). The cost itself is likely a factor on why these items are optional, and it's not your place to say otherwise.

[kwe1009]

This might just be my point of view, and is certainly just what I've noticed, but I'm gonna say what I always tell my AF buddy: There's a difference between the uniform and being uniform. The prior is what is covered per the regulations, and by the designation of a UOD. This just means that if the UOD is blues, for example, that everyone be wearing regulation-spec blues. The latter isn't covered by any regulation, and therefore, cannot be enforced due to the lack of regulation, and would include the wearing of certain blues outergarments or accouterments to match everyone else, though not required by regulations. The problem is, however, that people confuse the latter with the prior, and vice versa. The problem with requiring the wear of optional items is just that: It's an optional item. There is no authority to require such items, unless you go as far as making, submitting, and having a 39-1 supplement approved for the squadron. Another problem with requiring such items, is, again, the cost of these items. Though you might cover and get everything for everyone(That causes problems of its own), there is always the cost to replace these items when they wear out, replacing lost items, or in the case of patches, paying the tailor to sew them on(I know they can sew them on themselves, but lets be honest, who actually does that?). The cost itself is likely a factor on why these items are optional, and it's not your place to say otherwise.

The squadron always wore ribbons/badges long before I ever joined CAP and became the squadron commander.  When I took command I simply continued the policy.  I don't think requiring the wear of an optional uniform item needs a 39-1 supplement.  It is simply a commander's direction, just like having everyone have their BDU sleeves up or down.  That same goes with not allowing an optional item.  We also don't allow cadets to wear the long sleeve shirt or a tie with the short sleeve shirt because we can't provide those to everyone and we don't want a cadet to feel left out or anything because they don't have a certain uniform item that others may have.  Do you consider this against regulation as well?  If so, please cite the paragraph. 

My Wing CC has stated that he does not want anyone wearing the Wing patch anymore and for all members to remove it.  Does this action require a 39-1 supplement?  I wouldn't think so. Is it not his place to say otherwise as you have suggested?  I think my Wing CC is well within his rights to make that direction.  Just like in the military, the unit commander has policies or standing orders which must be followed but are not necessarily written in the form or a regulation supplement. 

The BDU uniform itself is optional since it is not issued and is thus optional as nowhere in 39-1 does it state that it is mandatory.  But as a general practice it appears that most squadrons requires them.  So how is it OK for a squadron to mandate an entire uniform but it is not OK for a squadron to mandate the wearing of an optional uniform item that it is providing? 

You may not agree with this approach but it certainly isn't against any regulation and I would say that it is well within the authority of a commander to make that decision (although this was also a group decision within my squadron as well).  It has also been a great tool to not only get cadets paying attention to their uniforms but also everyone's uniforms.  It also gets older cadets to talk with younger ones as they show them how to wear the items correctly and thus hopefully opening up a line of communication that will be used in the future. 

I can't argue with the success of the unit in competitions and in having cadets earn Spaatz awards so we must be doing something right.  I'm just continuing the policies that have been working in the past.

[SMWOG]

So what if I told ypu I have one ss shirt and dont want to put all those holes in it?  What if I told you my ribbon rack is too big for my shirt.  I wear the minimum on my ss shirt,justwings and a graduated  grp cc badge. I follow USAF customs when it comes to ribbons and the wear of the service cap,  I think its great if your providing ribbons at no cost to your squadron mates.   

[RogueLeader]

So what if I told ypu I have one ss shirt and dont want to put all those holes in it?  What if I told you my ribbon rack is too big for my shirt.  I wear the minimum on my ss shirt,justwings and a graduated  grp cc badge. I follow USAF customs when it comes to ribbons and the wear of the service cap,  I think its great if your providing ribbons at no cost to your squadron mates.

You can decide that you aren't going to follow the Commanders orders, and risk disciplinary action, which could go either way; appeal to the next echelon; transfer to a different unit; or just comply. 

I didn't want to transfer to Wing HQ, but my options were just as limited as yours are.

I understand why you make the choice that you have, and usually follow the same guidance, but you realize that you have to make the best choice for and take the consequences as they come.

[umpirecali]

[quote ]
Another problem with requiring such items, is... paying the tailor to sew them on(I know they can sew them on themselves, but lets be honest, who actually does that?
[/quote]

I do.  It's not that hard

[SarDragon]

+1. I've done all my own CAP sewing since I was 16

[Гугл переводчик]

I've sewn on a couple of my patches, but between stabbing myself many times and ending up with a sewing job that looks horrible, I just take it on base and have the cleaners in the BX take care of it.

[Garibaldi]

+1. I've done all my own CAP sewing since I was 16

14. After my parents divorced, and after the DEBACALE with my mother re-engineering a blues shirt (don't ask), and my new step mother (a longtime CAP senior) refused to sew anything, I had to learn. The hard way. I tried the glue, ruined several shirts. Thought the stuff on the back of the patches was iron-on. Fell off during inspection. After several weeks of enduring "who the *heck* sewed this on, a blind man with no fingers?" I buckled down and learned. Still sew on my patches, and have even sewn on several cadets' patches in a pinch. Saves money, I know it's being done right, and it's a time saver.