The "Final Word" (?) on ABUs

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

b.  We've been told we have one: the blazer kit.  We just need to keep repeating it to ourselves until all the membership of CAP truly believes it.

I meant a SINGLE corporate uniform for ALL members. The blazer is not it unless it replaces the service dress uniform for everyone.

May the sun, moon, stars and dark side of the Force never make that scenario (blazers for all) come true.

I knew what you meant.  Sarcasm doesn't come across well online.

[Storm Chaser]

b.  We've been told we have one: the blazer kit.  We just need to keep repeating it to ourselves until all the membership of CAP truly believes it.

I meant a SINGLE corporate uniform for ALL members. The blazer is not it unless it replaces the service dress uniform for everyone.

I understand the desire for uniformity, but this argument sounds more and more like "I can't have it so nobody can" (AF uniform) every time I hear it. And that's coming from a guy that's required to wear corporates.

Since I can wear the AF-style uniform and in fact is the uniform I wear 90% of the time (I wear the polo shirt occasionally), I guess that argument doesn't really apply to me.

[Shuman 14]

A couple of things.

Every piece of clothing, equipment, and service for the military and every government agency
end-to-end should be manufactured by an American company within CONUS.

It's ludicrous that a company can copyright a camo pattern.  That alone should be enough to disqualify the vendor.

If the DOD, or anyone else, says "no CCU for you", then our Leaders should say "Thank you we will
pursue other options for our members to insure a commercially available pattern is inexpensively accessible to all the members."

And then...

Move.

On.

CAP has absolutely no mission-served use for camouflage in any flavor.  None.  In fact it is a determent and safety issue
in the field, and divisive in the barracks.

Anything else is affectation or affinity, which should not be the prime motivators of the selection of a uniform.

I agree. CAP should just do away with BDUs and make the BBDUs the sole authorized field uniform for seniors and cadets.

With a long phase out period of course. 

[NIN]

I agree. CAP should just do away with BDUs and make the BBDUs the sole authorized field uniform for seniors and cadets.

With a long phase out period of course. 

Never mind the cadets who joined the Air Force's cadet program....

[Panache]

I agree. CAP should just do away with BDUs and make the BBDUs the sole authorized field uniform for seniors and cadets.

With a long phase out period of course. 

Never mind the cadets who joined the Air Force's cadet program....

Are the cadets, at this point, using the Air Force's current utility uniform?

[NIN]

I agree. CAP should just do away with BDUs and make the BBDUs the sole authorized field uniform for seniors and cadets.

With a long phase out period of course. 

Never mind the cadets who joined the Air Force's cadet program....

Are the cadets, at this point, using the Air Force's current utility uniform?

At the moment, no.

But at least they're wearing a uniform that was an Air Force uniform for the majority of the time it was authorized by CAP. (small steps, I suppose)

BBDUs were Air Force uniform, right? Oh, wait.

[Storm Chaser]

I agree. CAP should just do away with BDUs and make the BBDUs the sole authorized field uniform for seniors and cadets.

With a long phase out period of course. 

Never mind the cadets who joined the Air Force's cadet program....

With all due respect, I thought they joined the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Programs. The Air Force's cadet program for those under 18 is called the AFJROTC. It's director is not a civilian volunteer, but an active duty Air Force colonel (O-6).

[NIN]

With all due respect, I thought they joined the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Programs. The Air Force's cadet program for those under 18 is called the AFJROTC. It's director is not a civilian volunteer, but an active duty Air Force colonel (O-6).

Right. That is an important differentiator to most 12 or 13 year old prospective cadets.

Especially the ones that don't have AFJROTC available to them.

They come in to squadron meetings all the time:  "Oh, I thought this was the cadet program with a Active Duty Air Force Colonel in charge that is run as a curricular activity in school. Come on, mom, lets go. I want a real cadet program..."

You saw the membership charts that were posted, right?  I could be wrong, but I think if you continued to remove the perceived military aspects (especially a "military uniform") from the cadet program, I think you'd see the cadet membership numbers go south even further.

[BillB]

AFJROTC is not run at your local high school by an active duty O6. Rather the AFJROTC Director or what ever title is a retired O5 or O6, normalkly with a retired E6 or E7. And the two ASFJROTC staff are normally paid by the School Board, not the Air Force. At a University, the head of the AFROTC Department is an active duty O6 with a staff of active duty instructors O4 and O5's.

[NIN]

I also think the bigger point is that if AF JROTC is similar to  AJROTC in numbers, then JROTC is only available two less than 5 percent of high school students, unlike a community based program what does not rely on a specific school district.

Getting back to the point at hand, while I understand the desire to move away from Woodland BDUs since the Air Force does not wear them anymore, moving to blue BDUs at least for today is really pretty much a non-starter. Now you have zero service affinity in that uniform. I hate to say it, but one of the things that hooks cadets is the visual.  If you don't have people in what appears to be a military uniform, then people want to know what exactly is going on. Thankfully for the moment, most people don't understand that the Air Force is really in ABU, or at least they don't understand the concept of uniforms that have been phased out.

The other side of the coin is, at least with woodland BDUs, we do have a bit of a stash of them. It is dwindling quickly, but if we were to transition to  blue BDUs pretty much 100 percent of the membership would have to buy them, and there would be no such thing really as squadrons supply

[Storm Chaser]

You're nitpicking now. Civil Air Patrol is the official civilian Auxiliary of the Air Force, but we're not the Air Force. CAP Cadet Programs is not the Air Force's cadet program no matter how you put it. The Air Force has several cadet programs. We offer another one as the Air Force Auxiliary. If all we can offer our cadets is our relationship with the Air Force, then our CP is doomed. Fortunately, CAP still has a lot more to offer these young men and women than that.

[Panache]

The other side of the coin is, at least with woodland BDUs, we do have a bit of a stash of them. It is dwindling quickly, but if we were to transition to  blue BDUs pretty much 100 percent of the membership would have to buy them, and there would be no such thing really as squadrons supply

I assume you mean 100% of the cadet membership?

[Eclipse]

This idea of "squadron supply" for cadets is much more of a drag on change then a real influence on a cadet's cost.

Yes, it's nice to occasionally be able to issue something to a member instead of them writing a check,
but most units don't ever have access to that, certainly not in my wing, and not to the extent where they should influence
the decision of uniform for the entire organization.

A reasonable compromise would be putting the cadets in USAF blues and ABUs or CCUs and have the entirety of the adult membership
in a different, standard uniform.  One with less options, but that still allows for the display of plumage.

That actually would bring a uniform appearance to the organization.

Or moving to single field uniform and flight uniforms, the military appearance of which is apparently an issue in some wings, but leaving
the dress uniforms as-is, would provide us a uniform appearance externally, while solving the divisive issues of multi-patterns.

And in all this, the first thing is mandatory weigh-ins before you are authorized to wear anything USAF-Style.  I'd say once-a-year is reasonable.

[Storm Chaser]

^ I'd say that's very reasonable.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Would stop some SMs from calling FOs cadets.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My first unit had a few dual-status CAP/JROTC cadets.

They liked participating in both...but at least a couple of them that I knew, if they had to make a choice, would pick AFJROTC. 

[Eclipse]

but at least a couple of them that I knew, if they had to make a choice, would pick AFJROTC. 

Of course they would - lower expectations, generally done during school hours, sometimes instead of something harder (depends on the school).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

but at least a couple of them that I knew, if they had to make a choice, would pick AFJROTC. 

Of course they would - lower expectations, generally done during school hours, sometimes instead of something harder (depends on the school).

Lower expectations?  Indeed?

That's a genuine question, since I know very, very, very little about AFJROTC except the Air Force seems to like them a lot better than they do us.

[Storm Chaser]

I had a cadet that no matter what we did to help him, he could not pass all the requirements for Achievement 1. It took him over a year to promote to C/Amn. He was, however, a C/Maj in AFJROTC.

[FW]

I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of AFJROTC either, however I do know CAP offers so much more. Yes, they have better access to uniforms, but there is no comparison when it comes to challenge, activities, and preparation for a better future.

IMHO, there would be no hesitation IF one had to make a choice.