BDU Cover

[Pulsar]

One cadet I know wants to change the orange covers of PAWG to orange or rust colored berets.  I wouldn't like that because first of all they are somewhat uncomfortable from what I hear and can be a hassle. I also get the idea that in the service, berets are worn by the more elite. I don't think we're elite. And I like the orange baseball hats. What are your thoughts?

[arajca]

1st point - the only color of beret authorized is blue. Ref CAPM39-1.

[Pulsar]

1st point - the only color of beret authorized is blue. Ref CAPM39-1.

pretend there are no regs for covers.

[Eclipse]

There's no point to this.

[Pulsar]

There's no point to this.

I know. Please bear with me. I just curios about peoples' opinions. 

[unmlobo]

We do not wear covers we wear caps.  No where in 39-1 are hats mentioned as covers.  That being said I think that we should wear the BDU cap and be uniform.  If you go to a NCSA or Encampment then you wear that standardized headgear.  Events such as Blue Beret, HMRS, NESA, etc. are advanced learning courses and as such should be looked in similar fashion to wear of berets in the Air Force or Army (pre-2001); as symbols of advanced knowledge and held to higher standards.  There is no real world need for beret usage in general CAP use.  They are impractical and lack sun coverage, I will never understand cadet fascination with them.   

[Pulsar]

We do not wear covers we wear hats.  No where in 39-1 are hats mentioned as covers.  That being said I think that we should wear the BDU hats and be uniform.  If you go to a NCSA or Encampment then you wear that standardized headgear.  Events such as Blue Beret, HMRS, NESA, etc. are advanced learning courses and as such should be looked in similar fashion to wear of berets in the Air Force or Army (pre-2001); as symbols of advanced knowledge and held to higher standards.  There is no real world need for beret usage in general CAP use.  They are impractical and lack sun coverage, I will never understand cadet fascination with them.

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

[Eclipse]

Please tell us someone "hacked" your account.

[NIN]

Please tell us someone "hacked" your account.

Oh, comeon. We're not that lucky

[Pulsar]

Please tell us someone "hacked" your account.

Yes, the other side of my almost split personality.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

[ColonelJack]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

Please, please tell me you are joking.  Please reassure this old man that you aren't serious with that.

Jack

[Pulsar]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

Please, please tell me you are joking.  Please reassure this old man that you aren't serious with that.

Jack

Oh, don't have a heart attack! I was just saying what some cadets think.  :angel:

[abdsp51]

We do not wear covers we wear caps.  No where in 39-1 are hats mentioned as covers.  That being said I think that we should wear the BDU cap and be uniform.  If you go to a NCSA or Encampment then you wear that standardized headgear.  Events such as Blue Beret, HMRS, NESA, etc. are advanced learning courses and as such should be looked in similar fashion to wear of berets in the Air Force or Army (pre-2001); as symbols of advanced knowledge and held to higher standards.  There is no real world need for beret usage in general CAP use.  They are impractical and lack sun coverage, I will never understand cadet fascination with them.

Have you ever worn one? The same can be said of you ironing your ABUs.

[a2capt]

Oh, don't have a heart attack! I was just saying what some cadets think.  :angel:

You said

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

.. the use of "we" encompasses yourself by that statement.

[Pulsar]

Oh, don't have a heart attack! I was just saying what some cadets think.  :angel:

You said

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

.. the use of "we" encompasses yourself by that statement.

good point. 

[Panache]

I'm looking for the "I'm in PAWG so I have to wear the godawful orange caps but I really wish I didn't" button.

[Pulsar]

I'm looking for the "I'm in PAWG so I have to wear the godawful orange caps but I really wish I didn't" button.

You're right! I'll try to edit!

[FlyTiger77]

We do not wear covers we wear caps. 

Thank you!

They are impractical and lack sun coverage,   

Exactly. And, they require both hands to be free to put them on.

I think the colored ball caps are a much better (and already approved) solution.

[ol'fido]

Another reason I like the BBDUs. I bought a navy blue ball cap at Walmart for 3.99. Adjust for head size and go. No insignia=no worries.

[Jaison009]

When you say "rust colored" are you talking about the color used for the Multinational Forces and Observers Sinai Orange berets? I believe those who earned it (like my dad) during their assignment in Egypt might have issues with that.

One cadet I know wants to change the orange covers of PAWG to orange or rust colored berets.  I wouldn't like that because first of all they are somewhat uncomfortable from what I hear and can be a hassle. I also get the idea that in the service, berets are worn by the more elite. I don't think we're elite. And I like the orange baseball hats. What are your thoughts?

[vento]

[SARDOC]

I wear the BBDU and enjoy my Blue Boonie when I'm in the field.

[Eclipse]

Honestly, if I had a choice between grandma's gardening hat (above) and the Crêpe Suzhat, I'll take the gardening hat.

At least it's functional and appropriate in the field, something the crêpe is not.

Or we could all just wear the BDU hat and quit trying to be something we're not.

Because when you pretend to be something you're not, you show everyone exactly what you are...

[Jaison009]

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Honestly, if I had a choice between grandma's gardening hat (above) and the Crêpe Suzhat, I'll take the gardening hat.

At least it's functional and appropriate in the field, something the crêpe is not.

Or we could all just wear the BDU hat and quit trying to be something we're not.

Because when you pretend to be something you're not, you show everyone exactly what you are...

[SARDOC]

I wear the boonie just solely for it's functionality.  Not because of anything it may imply.  It's a much better All Weather Hat than the BDU cap.

[ColonelJack]

Honestly, if I had a choice between grandma's gardening hat (above) and the Crêpe Suzhat, I'll take the gardening hat.

At least it's functional and appropriate in the field, something the crêpe is not.

Or we could all just wear the BDU hat and quit trying to be something we're not.

Because when you pretend to be something you're not, you show everyone exactly what you are...

^ +1000!  This.  Exactly.

Well said, Eclipse.

Jack

[gruntmp]

Why not a nice Blue Campaign Hat???

Just kidding!!

I've worn all of the above in a variety of situations! Personally, I like the Campaign Hat, but, readily admit that it is probably because I am a history nut and my Great Grandfather wore one while chasing Pancho Villa!

If CAP wants to emphasize its SAR role and recognize that its personnel are going to operate in the field without helmets, then the only logical hat is the boonie! It provides all around coverage to protect the users neck and ears and provide a brim for the eyes. Having spent more than a little while in the woods, plains and desert, I always reach for the boonie whenever I can get away with wearing it! Big Army and the Air Force both hate the boonie because it is not pretty enough! Too bad!

True story! During most of my military career, I took my boonie, PC (that's the standard BDU/DCU/ACU/ABU cap for those of us old enough to have conducted patrols in soft caps, hence Patrol Cap or PC), and beret everywhere I was sent. Most of the time I wore the PC. It easily fits in a pocket whenever I went to chow or had to wear the awesome brain bucket (Steel Pot, Fritz Helmet or ACH in my time!). You can wear a headset with it if you have to monitor comms. Rarely will anyone challenge you on wearing it rather than the beret. The beret was worn only when I was ordered to wear it. Both Army and Air Force commanders have stuck their folks out in the elements in berets with little concern for the health issues! They suck!!!

As for ball caps, they lack the practicality of both the boonie and the PC. They don't provide the protection of the boonie and don't roll into a pocket well. On the other hand, you can get them in wool or in mesh, and, they can be custom made to distinguish a group.

Sitting on my book shelf at the office is a nice World War 2 era helmet liner that was painted a nice glossy blue with staff sergeant stripes hand painted to the front! I think a CAP Prop sticker could cover those stripes! It would be perfect!

[Storm Chaser]

I'm not crazy about "covers", but I do like my BDU cap.

[Sapper168]

http://www.amazon.com/Enzyme-Regular-Army-Caps-W35S45B/dp/B000FGU86U/ref=pd_sim_a_4

[Shuman 14]

There's no point to this.

I know. Please bear with me. I just curios about peoples' opinions. 

Eclipse doesn't like opinions... especially those that differ with his own. 

[Shuman 14]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

Lad, as someone who has worn a beret, everyday, for many years, let me tell you they suck.

Hot in the summer, cold in the winter, offer no rain or sun protection... and... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct.

Forget them, they're nothing but trouble.

[Shuman 14]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

[Shuman 14]

The most practical piece of headgear ever designed and issued.

[abdsp51]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

[RogueLeader]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

Yes you do. It takes a lot of time to do it right.

[abdsp51]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

Yes you do. It takes a lot of time to do it right.

No, you don't I wore a beret for 12 years and never ever had to wet it or anything outside of removing excess lint and trimming the stiffner.

[FlyTiger77]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

I am not sure what your experience level is with berets, but their care and feeding is both time- and labor-intensive. (And I am not one to gratuitously agree with Mr. Shuman, my fellow Army field grade officer.)

[abdsp51]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

I am not sure what your experience level is with berets, but their care and feeding is both time- and labor-intensive. (And I am not one to gratuitously agree with Mr. Shuman, my fellow Army field grade officer.)

I wore a beret for fours years in JROTC and then for 12 as Security Forces in the AF.  So I have plenty of experience with berets.  They are not as labor intensive and do not require a large load of shaving, wetting, drying etc to look sharp. 

[FlyTiger77]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

I am not sure what your experience level is with berets, but their care and feeding is both time- and labor-intensive. (And I am not one to gratuitously agree with Mr. Shuman, my fellow Army field grade officer.)

I wore a bere for fours years in JROTC and then for 12 as Security Forces in the AF.  So I have plenty of experience with berets.  They are not that labor intensive and do not require a large load of shaving, wetting, drying etc.

The USAF ones must be of a much different quality than the ones the Army buys then (which really isn't surprising).

[abdsp51]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct...

No you don't not one bit.

I am not sure what your experience level is with berets, but their care and feeding is both time- and labor-intensive. (And I am not one to gratuitously agree with Mr. Shuman, my fellow Army field grade officer.)

I wore a bere for fours years in JROTC and then for 12 as Security Forces in the AF.  So I have plenty of experience with berets.  They are not that labor intensive and do not require a large load of shaving, wetting, drying etc.

The USAF ones must be of a much different quality than the ones the Army buys then (which really isn't surprising).

Much higher quality, I only replace mine a couple of times and they were not made in China.

[SARDOC]

I was in the Army during the period they shifted from PC's to Berets.  There was a transition period and I waited as long as I could to switch.  I hated the beret and still do.  The wool would make my head itch and the hat wasn't good for anything practical.

[abdsp51]

I was in the Army during the period they shifted from PC's to Berets.  There was a transition period and I waited as long as I could to switch.  I hated the beret and still do.  The wool would make my head itch and the hat wasn't good for anything practical.

Considering they were implemented Army wide as a morale tool and jacked the color from the Rangers it's no wonder they were not popular.

[Peeka]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

Lad Lassie, as someone who has worn a beret, everyday, for many years, let me tell you they suck.

Hot in the summer, cold in the winter, offer no rain or sun protection... and... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct.

Forget them, they're nothing but trouble.

FTFY

Unless you meant...

Lad
/lad/
noun
2.
(Brit.)
  a stable worker (regardless of age or sex).

[Garibaldi]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

Always two there are. A master and an apprentice.

[Shuman 14]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

Always two there are. A master and an apprentice.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me. "
- Sorzus Syn

As quoted by Darth Bane. 

[Shuman 14]

We think they look cool and like we are an "elite" group of people.

Lad Lassie, as someone who has worn a beret, everyday, for many years, let me tell you they suck.

Hot in the summer, cold in the winter, offer no rain or sun protection... and... to get that "elite" look you want take HOURS of shaving, soaking, and forming to look half-way correct.

Forget them, they're nothing but trouble.

FTFY

Unless you meant...

Lad
/lad/
noun
2.
(Brit.)
  a stable worker (regardless of age or sex).

Meant a general neutral term for junior Enlisted Personnel. Normally used when speaking in a condescending tone. 

[Private Investigator]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

Always two there are. A master and an apprentice.

Sensei and grasshopper.

/s/ watashi   

[C/Cool]

I am what you might call a redneck and am also really attached to my baseball cap.  I wouldn't mind if we could change the BDU caps into woodland camo baseball caps.  Just my opinion though.

[TexasCadet]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

Always two there are. A master and an apprentice.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me. "
- Sorzus Syn

As quoted by Darth Bane. 

Is this the next Star Wars thread?

[DennisH]

Having worn a few pieces of headgear over the decades I can say the hat does not make the man. Fancy headgear, uniforms and commercials are for recruiting. Berets should be issued in hell, the only place that they may serve a purpose. When I started wearing one you needed a uniform modification card on your person. I had some quality berets that required initial time wasted and follow-on time wasted to meet standards. If anyone has time to complain about headgear, new/old uniforms, current standards or regulations then they have entirely to much free time.
Having worn many different uniforms and accessories I could bore everyone to death with the u inform suggestions submitted by folks with to much time on their hands and a need to feel special.

[DennisH]

Pulsar and Shuman.

Student and teacher.



Flyer

Always two there are. A master and an apprentice.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me. "
- Sorzus Syn

As quoted by Darth Bane. 

Is this the next Star Wars thread?

Only if the Imperial storm troopers start an NCO program  or require all death star pilots to,have a college education

[jeders]

I am what you might call a redneck and am also really attached to my baseball cap.  I wouldn't mind if we could change the BDU caps into woodland camo baseball caps.  Just my opinion though.

BDU baseball caps are already allowed.

[Panache]

Having worn many different uniforms and accessories I could bore everyone to death with the u inform suggestions submitted by folks with to much time on their hands and a need to feel special.

...but...but...but... I thought I was special!

[Eclipse]

Calling Mr. Durden, Mr. Tyler Durden. 

Please pick up the white phone at Courtesy Desk 4.

[DennisH]

Having worn many different uniforms and accessories I could bore everyone to death with the u inform suggestions submitted by folks with to much time on their hands and a need to feel special.

...but...but...but... I thought I was special!

Really special people wear the yellow football helmet with the flashing strobe light to let others know just how special they are and a warning sound is included at no additional cost.

[C/Cool]

I am what you might call a redneck and am also really attached to my baseball cap.  I wouldn't mind if we could change the BDU caps into woodland camo baseball caps.  Just my opinion though.

BDU baseball caps are already allowed.

I know you can wear a baseball cap with the BDU's but I have never seen a woodland camo baseball cap to wear with the BDU's. I may be mistaken though.

[Eclipse]

I know you can wear a baseball cap with the BDU's but I have never seen a woodland camo baseball cap to wear with the BDU's. I may be mistaken though.

The bookstore used to sell them, mesh back, very Billy-Bob.


I've had one crushed flat in my gear for about 13 years.

[C/Cool]

I know you can wear a baseball cap with the BDU's but I have never seen a woodland camo baseball cap to wear with the BDU's. I may be mistaken though.

The bookstore used to sell them, mesh back, very Billy-Bob.

I've had one crushed flat in my gear for about 13 years.

That's neat. Are those within regs?  That would be what I would want but without the mesh back. I may have to talk to my squadron and see if we could switch to those.

[Eclipse]

That's neat. Are those within regs?

Yep.

[C/Cool]

That's neat. Are those within regs?

Yep.

Ok. They are not very common but I guess they are withing regs.
Thanks

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

Next time we make something like that, I guess we may need to place red arrows pointing to the example.



Flyer

[ol'fido]

That's neat. Are those within regs?

Yep.

The cadet in the last pic is obviously going for the Beetle Bailey look.

[Danger]

no member in CAP while wearing the CAP uniform will be wearing a "cover." We are not marines or sailors. In Civil Air Patrol and the AF they are called caps or hats.

[/rant]

[Storm Chaser]

+1

[Shuman 14]

no member in CAP while wearing the CAP uniform will be wearing a "cover." We are not marines or sailors. In Civil Air Patrol and the AF they are called caps or hats.

[/rant]

http://www.vanguardmil.com/air-force-rain-cap-cover-honor-guard-blue-p-6042.html 

[Panache]

no member in CAP while wearing the CAP uniform will be wearing a "cover." We are not marines or sailors. In Civil Air Patrol and the AF they are called caps or hats.

[/rant]

http://www.vanguardmil.com/air-force-rain-cap-cover-honor-guard-blue-p-6042.html 

"(Hat not included)."

[a2capt]

With the varied active duty backgrounds of many of our members .. cover, hat, whatever. It works. We all know what they mean.

Split hairs if you want to, but with the acronym of our organization sounding exactly the same as the item placed on ones head, I welcome the 'different' term.

It's like the Lego company having fits over people calling them "Legos", instead of "Lego Bricks", or IACE, "Aye-ace", vs. "I.A.C.E.". It's a battle that will never end. There will be peace in the middle east first.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Shuman-

I think you misinterpreted the term "cover" in your Vanguard link.

The term "cover" is not for the hat but for the plastic thingie that "covers" the cap in case of rain or snow. In other words it is a "cap cover."

Flyer

[FlyTiger77]

In other words it is a "cap cover."

And if we wear it over OUR headgear it is a "CAP cap cover"... 

[Shuman 14]

no member in CAP while wearing the CAP uniform will be wearing a "cover." We are not marines or sailors. In Civil Air Patrol and the AF they are called caps or hats.

[/rant]

http://www.vanguardmil.com/air-force-rain-cap-cover-honor-guard-blue-p-6042.html 

"(Hat not included)."

[Luis R. Ramos]

Now he will tell us he knew it all along, and did it to see who would correct him!



Flyer

[DennisH]

And we all know that no matter what we place on our heads is "Covers" them

[THRAWN]

Any votes for a pith helmet yet?

[AlphaSigOU]

Any votes for a pith helmet yet?

Oh, HELL NO!!! 

[Panache]

Any votes for a pith helmet yet?

Oh, HELL NO!!! 

http://youtu.be/obnblNruPiU

[TexasCadet]

Any votes for a pith helmet yet?

Here's one vote!

Pros:
Cool (temperature)
Cool (awesome)
Lightweight
Provides protection against small debris
It provides a MAJOR distinction between us and the Air Force.

Cons:
People who think we are the Army (it happens) would think we were NVA, VC, etc.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Some of you argue that CAP should wear items that the US Army has worn because we are the Air Force Auxiliary and the Air Force came from the Army.

So... since the United States Army wore the spiked Pith Helmet, why are you now saying that the CAP should not wear the Pith Helmet?

It was standard in 1881!

Move down to post #26.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/132444-m1881-dress-officers-helmet/page-2?hl=+pith%20+helmet

Click on link and move down to photo that says United States 10th Infantry in 1899.

http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/militaryuniforms.htm#North%20America%2019th

Flyer

[DennisH]

Since I lack the skill to post pictures I suggest the little blue beenie with a three blade prop on top

[Luis R. Ramos]

The Lt Dennis look?

http://www.wholesalepartystore.com/store/p/204386-Party-Supplies-Propeller-Beanie-1-Pkg.html?feed=Froogle

Flyer

[DennisH]

The Lt Dennis look?

http://www.wholesalepartystore.com/store/p/204386-Party-Supplies-Propeller-Beanie-1-Pkg.html?feed=Froogle

Flyer

Close it needs to be aquamarine and have a three bladed prop on top, I wonder if you can sew rank on them someone should suggest this to National

[Luis R. Ramos]

May I suggest instead of being completely aquamarine divided in six panels, alternating aquamarine and safety orange?

Flyer

[ol'fido]

[Luis R. Ramos]

But...but... but it does not have the propeller on top!

Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving, all of you...

[ol'fido]

But...but... but it does not have the propeller on top!

Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving, all of you...

Doesn't need one. FLWG GT uniform.

[Treadhead]

I don't like berets.  Having worn one while in the Army, I can tell you that:

(A) They are hell to maintain, shape and keep them looking right.
(B) You have to look in the mirror each time you put it on to make sure that it is on correctly.
(C) Unless it is shaped/worn correctly, you could end up with the "meadow muffin" or the "Russian sailor" look
(D) It does not protect you from the sun.

And lastly, the beret has always been the symbol for elite forces who have EARNED the right to wear it.  I never felt comfortable wearing a beret for that reason alone.

There is nothing wrong with ball caps.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And lastly, the beret has always been the symbol for elite forces who have EARNED the right to wear it.  I never felt comfortable wearing a beret for that reason alone.

In this country, perhaps.  Among our allies, it is the basic issue headgear.

Canadian basic trainees


German Army General


RAF Air Training Corps Cadets

There is nothing wrong with ball caps.

In their proper context, no.

But to wear them with the G/W kit (39-1 authorises it), which is supposed to be a "dressier" uniform, looks bloody stupid.

[Garibaldi]

I did not authorize this likeness of me to be posted in this forum. Please cease and desist all usage immediately.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^At first I thought it was me but the beard isn't grey enough.

[ol'fido]

Actually, this is a paparazzi pic of Albus Dumbledore. He didn't really die in the Harry Potter novels. He just retired to Florida. Wanted to get out of that drafty old castle. He's got a condo on the beach. Elvis is one of his neighbors.

[Panache]

In this country, perhaps.  Among our allies, it is the basic issue headgear.

Canadian basic trainees

Oh my God!  Not only did Pvt. Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence survive, it looks like he transferred to the Canadian Army!

[vento]

And lastly, the beret has always been the symbol for elite forces who have EARNED the right to wear it.  I never felt comfortable wearing a beret for that reason alone.

In this country, perhaps.  Among our allies, it is the basic issue headgear.

Canadian basic trainees


German Army General


RAF Air Training Corps Cadets

There is nothing wrong with ball caps.

In their proper context, no.

But to wear them with the G/W kit (39-1 authorises it), which is supposed to be a "dressier" uniform, looks bloody stupid.

Not only among our allies, but also among our enemies. So, what is the point? 

[jeders]

And lastly, the beret has always been the symbol for elite forces who have EARNED the right to wear it pretentious French artists.  I never felt comfortable wearing a beret for that reason alone.

FTFY

[a2capt]

Earned the right?
The same could be said about everyone that wears -any- hat as an AD service member. They all got through basic, boot, whatever flavor you want to give it, in our all volunteer forces. They stepped up to the line and crossed it willingly.