CAP Flight Suits-Reviews and Recommendations

[bosshawk]

Everything that Mustang says about Joe Lawrence is correct.  I was the Deputy Commander of the Sq whose airplane was the one involved and I was close friends with the two members who were killed.  Yes, NOMEX is hot and expensive and all of the other points made against it, but it works.  The two guys who were killed were burned badly and killed by a combination of trauma and fire: they crashed into trees in the Sierra that were about 50-75 ft tall.  BTW: I wear NOMEX suit and gloves and jacket(if necessary).  Yes, it certainly would be cooler and more comfortable to wear T-shirt and shorts and shower clogs in hot weather.  My wife happens to prefer me wearing NOMEX.

[DakRadz]

My wife happens to prefer me wearing NOMEX.

The good Col knows to "Salute and Execute" in this situation. Sometimes you just don't argue with a General.

[davidsinn]

My wife happens to prefer me wearing NOMEX.

The good Col knows to "Salute and Execute" in this situation. Sometimes you just don't argue with a General.

Are you sure you're not a SM posing as a cadet? You are way too wise to be a teenager

[bosshawk]

The wife was a Captain in the US Army Nurse Corps, but she has figured out a way to rule the roost of a retired Colonel.  Salute and Execute is the operative phrase.  At least some of the time.

[SarDragon]

My sweetie acquired the title ComNavHomePac the day we got married, even though I was an E-6 senior to her. I retired as an E-6, but a couple of years later, she made Chief. This had absolutely no effect on the previously established title, other than my "Yes, Chief" response every so often.

She's even nice enough to launder my flight suit when it needs it.

[AlphaSigOU]

The wife was a Captain in the US Army Nurse Corps, but she has figured out a way to rule the roost of a retired Colonel.  Salute and Execute is the operative phrase.  At least some of the time.

She Who Will Be Obeyed... 

[ArmyCAP]

"She who MUST be obeyed" - Rumpole, by John Mortimer

Or, "CINCHOUSE"

[bosshawk]

You guys really seem to have the idea down pat: glad that I am not by myself.

Can't we turn this back into a uniform thread?  She Who Will Be Obeyed does not launder my flight suits: I do.  Besides being a former Army Nurse, she also happens to have a Pilots License.

[ArmyCAP]

Good idea, Paul. Here's a related question: How many flight hours per year would a mission pilot or observer in CAP expect to acquire, so that the investment in a nomex flight suit makes sense, or at least the expensive blue, CAP distinctive suit? But, just one fire will justify the investment; that's how safety is. The story of your friends and colleagues proves that. So, I'm wondering if a poly/cotton flight suit is little more than vanity, frankly. Without Nomex, maybe we should just fly in a CAP golf shirt and grey pants?

[Hawk200]

Without Nomex, maybe we should just fly in a CAP golf shirt and grey pants?

I wouldn't do it, not enough pockets.

[ArmyCAP]

But check this out: Gibson & Barnes sells pants called "Sentinel Pants" which have all the pockets of the lower half of a flight suit. Cool? You can even get them in Nomex, to protect only your lower half!

[Eclipse]

So, I'm wondering if a poly/cotton flight suit is little more than vanity, frankly. Without Nomex, maybe we should just fly in a CAP golf shirt and grey pants?

There is little justification for us not flying in golf shirt and gray pants - its what the pilots would be wearing in their own plane.

While we may fly more hours as a whole, and with more purpose than a hamburger run, we're in the same patterns, altitudes, and airframes as everyone else.

For every shuttle mission there's a thousand sorties that are nothing more than straight-line transport rides, with significantly less risk both statistically and actually than the drive in the ground vehicle to get to the airport.

[vento]

There is little justification for us not flying in golf shirt and gray pants - its what the pilots would be wearing in their own plane.

While we may fly more hours as a whole, and with more purpose than a hamburger run, we're in the same patterns, altitudes, and airframes as everyone else.

For every shuttle mission there's a thousand sorties that are nothing more than straight-line transport rides, with significantly less risk both statistically and actually than the drive in the ground vehicle to get to the airport.

I beg to differ Sir. In a search grid, we fly at 1000 ft AGL, which is next to nothing when something goes wrong and we need to trade altitude for airspeed before a crash landing. Survivability is higher and chances are better when flying at higher altitudes, but we can't effectively search at higher altitides with our MK1 eyeballs.

I am not saying that NOMEX should be mandatory, but I wouldn't mind spending some money for that little extra safety margin.

[tsrup]

its what the pilots would be wearing in their own plane.

Which so happens to be the plane we are looking for while flying at 1000 ft AGL...

I agree with most above, there is only a small chance of a cockpit fire.  But all it takes is that 1 in a 1,000,000 to happen to you.

I'd trade 2 hours of flight time out of my logbook to buy a flight suit, even if I never have to use my Nomex for what it was designed for.

[Eclipse]

I have no issue with Nomex as a concept, but 1 in a million is not how you set policy, in fact it would be the actuarial justification to
never discuss it again.

[davidsinn]

I'd trade 2 hours of flight time out of my logbook to buy a flight suit, even if I never have to use my Nomex for what it was designed for.

That's fine for you. What about the underpaid guy riding in the back seat that can't even afford his own headset?

[bosshawk]

Fred: in answer to your question, I would guess that the average MP flies less than 20 hours a year in search: depends on how many Peter Pilots drop their favorite flying machines into the trees, mts or lakes.  That is impossible to predict: CAWG hasn't had a search worthy of the name in about 16 months and we have the largest GA population in the nation.  Oh, yes, there have been a number of one or two airplane searches in that period of time, but they didn't involve many people.

I have flight suits that I have owned for 10 years or more: they wear like iron when only worn occasionally. 

Flying in golf shirt and gray slacks: that is fine for admin and transport flights, when you aren't turning and twisting in the mts at 1000 ft, at 10,000 ft altitude.  In fact, I have taken most of my Form 5s in shirt and trousers: at or near sea level and with no big rocks anywhere around.  I do my form 91 in a flight suit and require the people that I examine to wear them as well.  Why, because in my neck of the woods, we fly 91s in the mts and our mts go to 14k ft.

You guys do what you want: I will do what I want and I don't expect you to all agree with me.  I have a bunch of very white hair and I attribute some of that to my habits while flying: I have survived long enough for it to turn white.  I also happen to be cautious when flying.

[tsrup]

I'd trade 2 hours of flight time out of my logbook to buy a flight suit, even if I never have to use my Nomex for what it was designed for.

That's fine for you. What about the underpaid guy riding in the back seat that can't even afford his own headset?

There's always ebay and surplus stores.  I was fortunate enough to find one my size in my squadrons supply when I started my flight training as a cadet.  Still fits, still is serviceable.

I don't see the issue though.  Ground team members are required to have a full 24 and 72 hour gear (Task O-0001) which most of it is purchased by the member.  I think I spent more on my GT gear then most members have spent on nomex. 

You want to do missions?  Fine, have adequate equipment. 

I empathize with the underpaid.  Im a full time student who works part time.  My wallet is less than bulging.  But I still found ways to make sure I'm outfitted properly for whatever mission pops up. 

[Eclipse]

There's always ebay and surplus stores.

Not for people built like big boys - 37" length arms will not be on eBay or surplus

I don't see the issue though.  Ground team members are required to have a full 24 and 72 hour gear (Task O-0001) which most of it is purchased by the member.  I think I spent more on my GT gear then most members have spent on nomex.

Members are not required to own their own gear - many units have shared packs that go out with the member.  $50 will get you all the gear you need to start, vs. the $150-250 for a Nomex flight suit.

You want to do missions?  Fine, have adequate equipment.

And both the golf shirt and BDU's falls into that category.  Mountain flying aside, it says something about the coherence of our program when CAP's national school is training aircrew in shorts, but certain areas feel they "know better".

You guys do what you want: I will do what I want and I don't expect you to all agree with me.

Which is how it should be, except that you have said here that you are making up a rule of your own in mandating Nomex, which exceeds your authority as a check pilot.

The attitude that any of us can "do what we want", instead of adhering to a single standard, is literally the core of CAP's issues today.

[davidsinn]

I'd trade 2 hours of flight time out of my logbook to buy a flight suit, even if I never have to use my Nomex for what it was designed for.

That's fine for you. What about the underpaid guy riding in the back seat that can't even afford his own headset?

There's always ebay and surplus stores.  I was fortunate enough to find one my size in my squadrons supply when I started my flight training as a cadet.  Still fits, still is serviceable.

Ever seen a blue flightsuit on ebay? I haven't. I heard they exist but it'll be impossible to find my size.

I don't see the issue though.  Ground team members are required to have a full 24 and 72 hour gear (Task O-0001) which most of it is purchased by the member.  I think I spent more on my GT gear then most members have spent on nomex.

I get mine at walmart and dollar stores. Real cheap but gets the job done. 

You want to do missions?  Fine, have adequate equipment. 

I empathize with the underpaid.  Im a full time student who works part time.  My wallet is less than bulging.  But I still found ways to make sure I'm outfitted properly for whatever mission pops up.

Shouldn't headsets be part of the airplane? They're not around here. I need to get one of those long before I get a flightsuit that is no more useful than the BBDU I already wear.