Can't say I'm surprised in the least bit at the direction this headed...

^^ Who Asked You to Pitch In? 

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 10:06:47 PM
Whelp, to sum it up, no. For one, the very definition of tan is "a pale shade of brown", so it's not exactly a black and white directive. My superior officers have said tan is perfectly acceptable and I find it way more comfortable and economical to buy one shade of moisture-wick shirt. I did, however, have the sneaking suspicion that it was wrong so I came here to get a little more guidance. Once people here said that tan is a no go, did I say "I'm going to wear it anyway."? No. I understand you are more experienced than me, but on the internet, I'm going to treat you with the respect and attitude of a peer.

One of the other things you have the opportunity to learn in all of these cadet organizations is how to pick your battles. you've picked a really bad one here. Continually telling us about the likenesses of tan and brown will not change either the reg, or our interpretations.

As for your last comment, no, we are not peers. Most of us are adults, you are not, at least withing the scope of cadet programs. We also have a teacher-student relationship that further separates us. Maintaining your attitude will eventually get you in trouble somewhere, especially if you try it in the RealMilitary™. Many of us are current or former military members, and have already learned these lessons.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 09:16:41 AM
Thanks, that's going to come in handy soon(I'm the unit designated "reg nazi" because I ensure that people follow regs to the "T" and I always carry the necessary citation on me.).

And no, I'm not an officer, I'm new to CAP. I just thought C/Capt Obvious was funny. Apparently not.

I just thought C/Capt Obvious was funny. Apparently not.

Being "master of the obvious" is generally not a good thing. In CAP, it is SPECIFICALLY not a good thing. On CT, it is DEFINITELY, SPECIFICALLY NOT a good thing as I think(hope) we are learning.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 10:06:47 PM
Whelp, to sum it up, no. For one, the very definition of tan is "a pale shade of brown", so it's not exactly a black and white directive. My superior officers have said tan is perfectly acceptable and I find it way more comfortable and economical to buy one shade of moisture-wick shirt. I did, however, have the sneaking suspicion that it was wrong so I came here to get a little more guidance. Once people here said that tan is a no go, did I say "I'm going to wear it anyway."? No. I understand you are more experienced than me, but on the internet, I'm going to treat you with the respect and attitude of a peer.

De Ruiter......I too am from Las Vegas.....and you don't want to treat me like a "peer" nor do you want me to treat you like one of my "peers"....it will not be pretty.

That said.....CT is not the place to go for judgement calls.....YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND is the place for you.

Ah... CAP regs... making the FARs look intelligible. 

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 09:16:41 AM
Thanks, that's going to come in handy soon(I'm the unit designated "reg nazi" because I ensure that people follow regs to the "T" and I always carry the necessary citation on me.).

And no, I'm not an officer, I'm new to CAP. I just thought C/Capt Obvious was funny. Apparently not.

"Reg Nazi"? With so little CAP experience, seniority and rank, you're far from being qualified to "ensure that people follow regs to the 'T'". And since when did being a "nazi" become a good thing?

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:26:09 PMI know that my uniform is proper at all times, I may be new to CAP, but I've been wearing Air Force Blues for a minute, now. I don't crack down unless I know for a fact that I know the reg well enough to recite it so no false calls on my part, hopefully. I usually call the common sense stuff i.e. hair, creases, shoe shine/type, colored bracelet, device placement. You know, the stuff no one has time to do right. <--- Sarcasm

So you've been "wearing Air Force Blues for a minute, now"? So what? I've been wearing a uniform for 25 years; that doesn't mean anything. One thing is for you to take pride in your uniform, which is commendable, and another is for you to think that you're better and know more than others because of your uniform and the fact that you can quote regs.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
Let's just say I'm a little old school, when it comes to my uniform. I don't get much sleep the day before I wear my uniform because of all the squaring away. As in 3 1/2 hours shining boots for BDU's and 4 on the boots for my blues. I am rather certain that I am SAT.

One of my jobs as Leadership Education Officer is to ensure the proper wear of the uniform. As such, I've always tried to raise the bar when it comes to mine. I can assure you that I don't need to spend 8 hours to make my uniform look great.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:55:43 PM
Well, I disagree with you there. I think that if you can tell the difference between my boots and Corfams, then I'm doing it wrong. I find a deep sense of responsibility when representing CAP, USAF, and the Armed Forces as a whole.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to represent CAP in the best way possible. But as important as it is to wear your uniform properly, if you think that having a great uniform is the most important thing about CAP, then you don't understand the organization and its missions at all. Besides, you're in CAP, not the USAF.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 09:35:35 PM
I'm an AFJROTC Cadet, Navy S.C.C. Cadet, CAP Cadet, and former NJROTC Cadet. I'm kind of into the whole military thing.

That's your problem; you're trying to be so many things that you don't know what the heck you are. You may be "into the whole military thing", but you're not in the military and you don't know what the military is all about. I've been in the military for 17 years. I'm a former active duty enlisted and serve now as an officer in the Air Force Reserve. And I can assure you that, while I take pride in wearing my uniform properly, that is not the main mission or priority of the Air Force or any of the Armed Forces.

Quote from: RSalort on January 21, 2013, 06:29:32 AM

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 09:16:41 AM
Thanks, that's going to come in handy soon(I'm the unit designated "reg nazi" because I ensure that people follow regs to the "T" and I always carry the necessary citation on me.).

And no, I'm not an officer, I'm new to CAP. I just thought C/Capt Obvious was funny. Apparently not.

"Reg Nazi"? With so little CAP experience, seniority and rank, you're far from being qualified to "ensure that people follow regs to the 'T'". And since when did being a "nazi" become a good thing?

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:26:09 PMI know that my uniform is proper at all times, I may be new to CAP, but I've been wearing Air Force Blues for a minute, now. I don't crack down unless I know for a fact that I know the reg well enough to recite it so no false calls on my part, hopefully. I usually call the common sense stuff i.e. hair, creases, shoe shine/type, colored bracelet, device placement. You know, the stuff no one has time to do right. <--- Sarcasm

So you've been "wearing Air Force Blues for a minute, now"? So what? I've been wearing a uniform for 25 years; that doesn't mean anything. One thing is for you to take pride in your uniform, which is commendable, and another is for you to think that you're better and know more than others because of your uniform and the fact that you can quote regs.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
Let's just say I'm a little old school, when it comes to my uniform. I don't get much sleep the day before I wear my uniform because of all the squaring away. As in 3 1/2 hours shining boots for BDU's and 4 on the boots for my blues. I am rather certain that I am SAT.

One of my jobs as Leadership Education Officer is to ensure the proper wear of the uniform. As such, I've always tried to raise the bar when it comes to mine. I can assure you that I don't need to spend 8 hours to make my uniform look great.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 06:55:43 PM
Well, I disagree with you there. I think that if you can tell the difference between my boots and Corfams, then I'm doing it wrong. I find a deep sense of responsibility when representing CAP, USAF, and the Armed Forces as a whole.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to represent CAP in the best way possible. But as important as it is to wear your uniform properly, if you think that having a great uniform is the most important thing about CAP, then you don't understand the organization and its missions at all. Besides, you're in CAP, not the USAF.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 20, 2013, 09:35:35 PM
I'm an AFJROTC Cadet, Navy S.C.C. Cadet, CAP Cadet, and former NJROTC Cadet. I'm kind of into the whole military thing.

That's your problem; you're trying to be so many things that you don't know what the heck you are. You may be "into the whole military thing", but you're not in the military and you don't know what the military is all about. I've been in the military for 17 years. I'm a former active duty enlisted and serve now as an officer in the Air Force Reserve. And I can assure you that, while I take pride in wearing my uniform properly, that is not the main mission or priority of the Air Force or any of the Armed Forces.

I don't think that uniforms being squared away is the most important thing. I'm a busy individual, but if I have free time and my uniforms are not perfect, I will work on them. I'm not going to walk out the door with that flag on my shoulder knowing my boots are shiny, but not as shiny as possible and knowing that I spent time at the movies the night before. I hold myself to higher standard than I hold others, but that's only for opinion matters. I see myself as qualified because I'm using a black and white regulation, it usually shouldn't take much to see if someone is IAW with it or not. As for rank, seniority, and experience, in the words of the Air Force Public Affairs, "You don't need a title to be a leader." I'll let someone know their violation and show them how to correct it. If they refuse to listen, there's jack I can really do except wait and watch them get reamed by an NCO or officer. I don't think that I know more than everyone, nor do I really care if I do. I study the manuals and inform myself as much as possible, irrelevant to the level of knowledge that my peers have.

You shouldn't be watching someone "get reamed by an NCO [SIC] or officer." They ncos and officers should be correcting in private. Out of the public eye. Especially at a squadron meeting.

You're new to CAP, and claim to be an expert on uniforms. Not buying that with Bill Gates' money.

I've been in CAP at least twice as long as you've been around, have copies of every CAPM 39-1 ever published, and I don't consider myself an expert. Knowledgeable, yes. Expert? Not yet. There are too many inconsistencies, as you pointed out in your original post, for anyone to be a true expert.

For the last time, I don't think I'm an expert. I do my best stay as knowledgeable as possible. If someone violates a regulation that is currently in effect and applicable to them, I'll correct it. That is all. I do keep my eyes out for those things and I like to think I'm rather vigilant.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 21, 2013, 08:57:58 AM
For the last time, I don't think I'm an expert. I do my best stay as knowledgeable as possible. If someone violates a regulation that is currently in effect and applicable to them and is under me in the chain of command, I'll correct it. That is all. I do keep my eyes out for those things and I like to think I'm rather vigilant.

There, I fixed that for you.

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 21, 2013, 07:39:43 AMI see myself as qualified because I'm using a black and white regulation,

Black and white until it means you have to buy a t-shirt, then things get a little "sandy"?

Quote from: Eclipse on January 21, 2013, 11:55:11 AM

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 21, 2013, 07:39:43 AMI see myself as qualified because I'm using a black and white regulation,

Black and white until it means you have to buy a t-shirt, then things get a little "sandy" Shady of Brown?

There, fixed that for you. 

Quote from: Airman De Ruiter on January 21, 2013, 07:39:43 AM
I don't think that uniforms being squared away is the most important thing. I'm a busy individual, but if I have free time and my uniforms are not perfect, I will work on them. I'm not going to walk out the door with that flag on my shoulder knowing my boots are shiny, but not as shiny as possible and knowing that I spent time at the movies the night before. I hold myself to higher standard than I hold others, but that's only for opinion matters. I see myself as qualified because I'm using a black and white regulation, it usually shouldn't take much to see if someone is IAW with it or not. As for rank, seniority, and experience, in the words of the Air Force Public Affairs, "You don't need a title to be a leader." I'll let someone know their violation and show them how to correct it. If they refuse to listen, there's jack I can really do except wait and watch them get reamed by an NCO or officer. I don't think that I know more than everyone, nor do I really care if I do. I study the manuals and inform myself as much as possible, irrelevant to the level of knowledge that my peers have.

If you read 39-1, you will find that boots do not need to be shiny. They are supposed to be black, without scuffs. This is a huge pet peeve of mine. I see cadets trying to get on to others for not having the shiniest boots, but they are still clearly within regulation. 

"You don't need a title to be a leader." That is correct. But not with age comes wisdom, but with knowledge.
Learn from the members of this board. Don't take everything people around here say personally.
Members of CT are here to help each other out, and have fun while doing so.
Remember, respect goes a long way.

Quote from: Cool Mace on January 21, 2013, 02:31:00 PM
But not with age comes wisdom, but with knowledge.

When I was a kid, I thought I knew everything and that my dad was way out of touch.

Now, in my late 40s, I find that I know much less than I thought I did and that my dad was pretty street-smart.

He never saw a 39-1, but I have a feeling if he did, he'd say, "this is worse than anything I ever dealt with in the Army!" coupled with a few colourful metaphors.

Let me recap here. Wearing you uniform properly and taking pride in doing so is a good thing. CAPR 52-16 (another reg for you yo read) has some interesting things to say about the uniform. As I said before, I spend time myself (and I'm a senior member) making sure that my uniform is squared away and I also hold myself to a higher standard. I don't, however, feel the need to spend 4 hours shinning boots (it takes much less if you know what you're doing).

The problem here, and what most CT members are trying to explain, is your attitude. I agree that many cadets and seniors don't know how to wear their uniforms properly. And the inconsistencies and vagueness found in CAPM 39-1 add to the confusion. As a leader, regardless of rank, it's fine to attempt to help others with their uniforms. Again, the problem is your attitude. If I was your commander or deputy commander for cadets, I would be annoyed with you.

Your enthusiasm and dedication to doing things right may prove in time to be an asset to your unit. But you have to also know your place as a cadet airman and be respectful of others. I've corrected some of my commanders at times, but always with respect and in private. And I've never taken pride with correcting them or others (it's not what true leaders do). I don't make a habit of trying to make others feel like they don't know what they're doing; I teach them and provide mentorship.

Again, your heart may be in the right place, but your attitude may be rubbing others the wrong way. Remember, CAP is a volunteer organization. You want to help others do things right, not drive them away from CAP.

Quote from: CyBorg on January 21, 2013, 03:03:40 PM

Quote from: Cool Mace on January 21, 2013, 02:31:00 PM
But not with age comes wisdom, but with knowledge.

When I was a kid, I thought I knew everything and that my dad was way out of touch.

Now, in my late 40s, I find that I know much less than I thought I did and that my dad was pretty street-smart.

He never saw a 39-1, but I have a feeling if he did, he'd say, "this is worse than anything I ever dealt with in the Army!" coupled with a few colourful metaphors.

Very true, Cyborg.

I should have elaborated a little bit more. I may have been wrong with my guess that people would understand the meaning behind it.

I'm a young SM, but no where new to CAP. I learn more and more as the days pass.
It's all about what you do with the knowledge that is set forth in front of you.

Quote from: CyBorg on January 21, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
When I was a kid, I thought I knew everything and that my dad was way out of touch.

Now, in my late 40s, I find that I know much less than I thought I did and that my dad was pretty street-smart.

My dad has gotten smarter every year since I turned 25.  His IQ went through the roof when my daughter was born.

Meh. The whole shiny boots thing is a personal choice to me. I have 2 pair of boots, one for meetings that are polished, and one for field work. I had to shine my boots WIWAC because of the way things were done in our unit(pre-CPPT). It just stuck with me and I do it out of habit more than anything. I personally don't give a rat's posterior if you do it or don't. Just don't look like a rag-bag.