Vanguard and shipping

[Johnny Yuma]

Well, FWIW, I met with management folks during the NB and found them to be extremely concerned about Service and responsive to our needs. 

They were working with CP to establish a reliable source for BDUs and black combat boots - especially in smaller (cadet) sizes - for the indefinite period while we are waiting for ABUs.  They are contracting with a manufacturer and the prices should be good for us. We should have sample sets at NHQ to review quality soon.

The point is we talked, they listened and worked hard to meet our needs.

Ned Lee

Ned, what they did is blow sunshine up your Six. They have an exclusive contract to sell CAP related stuff to the members. They've been measured by varying levels of FAIL by all accounts. As long as they are the only game in town there is ZERO motivation for them to provide better service.

The whole exclusive vendor license strikes a chord with me, as the only place I was able to get golf shirts in 4XL that I wear was The Hock and only the screen-printed shirts. I'd give up a kidney for 3 of the embroidered shirts and a couple 4XL aviators but the largest size Vanguard sells is 3XL and after a few washings that's even smaller. I talked to the Vanguard folks about this at the NCR conference last October and got blank stares.

I'd sure like to see just how much money Vanguard's kicked back to CAP and where it went, especially if any of it was supposed to roll down to the Wings or NCSA's.

   

[Fubar]

So, it is 11SEP10 at 1:20 CST, a Saturday.  I'll chime back in when my order arrives.

Nothing will happen until Monday. They don't process orders over the weekend.

[spacecommand]

They don't seem to process orders during regular weekdays either @_@.

[Ned]

Not sure what "extremely concerned & responsiveness to our needs" (by Vanguard) means

I'm sorry, my bad for not communicating clearly. 

What I meant was VG is "extremely concerned and responsive to our needs."

[snipped compllaints about service comparable to what the Bookstore and CAPMART proviced]  That's what happens  with these sweatheart one source deals!!!   

True enough.  We get service pretty much like we have always had.  Plus we gain thousands of dollars for our members.  "Win - Win!"

Seems to me it real easy to put in performance standards for contractors to meet as far as processing times.

Good idea.  Feel free to mention it to your wing commander for inclusion in the next competative bidding cycle.

There would be good demand in this area to stock smaller sizes because the Young Marines program is also very active in our area (100+ youngesters) and they take even younger kids into the program.

Oddly enough I had the CEO of the Young Marines with me while discussing the matter with the VG executives.  Great minds think alike.

Before we get into any long term contracts on uniforms/boots, (. . .)

Again, I did not express myself clearly.  CAP is not a party to these contracts.  VG is contracting with suppliers.

perhaps now is the time to make a decision on transitioning to Blue BDU's for everyone in CAP. 

The decision has already been made, at least for the CP.  For over 60 years, CP participants and leaders who meet age/height/weight standards have worn the uniform of the USAF with distinctive CAP insignia.

No change is anticipated to this highly successful policy.

As long as they are the only game in town there is ZERO motivation for them to provide better service.

Unless, of course, they would like to have the contract renewed.

Which would only happen after a competative process.

I'd sure like to see just how much money Vanguard's kicked back to CAP and where it went, especially if any of it was supposed to roll down to the Wings or NCSA's.

Fair question.  Have you bothered to ask your wing commander?  The information is out there.  If you really can't get it through channels, I have it somewhere and would be happy to put it out there.  It isn't a secret and represents a terrific resource.

Ned Lee

[a2capt]

True enough.  We get service pretty much like we have always had.  Plus we gain thousands of dollars for our members.  "Win - Win!"

More money for our members.. *From* our members. Why not leave the money with the members in the first place? If they raised dues by a couple dollars they would probably get the same amount and the cost to everyone would be negligible. Even CAPBookMart was buying VG stuff previously. Who else makes this stuff?

[RVT]

True enough.  We get service pretty much like we have always had.  Plus we gain thousands of dollars for our members.  "Win - Win!"

More money for our members.. *From* our members. Why not leave the money with the members in the first place? If they raised dues by a couple dollars they would probably get the same amount and the cost to everyone would be negligible. Even CAPBookMart was buying VG stuff previously. Who else makes this stuff?

There are sources.  But for obvious reasons nobody will mention them here.

[Ned]

More money for our members.. *From* our members. Why not leave the money with the members in the first place?

If CAP ended the small licensing fee today, your theory is that Vanguard would immediately "slash" prices by 6%?

Or that by opening the market to thousands of military insignia manufacturers worldwide,   normal capitalistic market forces would inevitably produce a frenzy of competition for the opportunity to sell perhaps two dozen Master CDI badges a year at cutthrout prices?

OK, then.

[BillB]

Dis I read somewhere the majority of the funds from Vanguard went to Hawk Mountain?

[HGjunkie]

Dis I read somewhere the majority of the funds from Vanguard went to Hawk Mountain?

It was some letter sent out by NHQ, said funds were installing hot showers at Hawk and funding NBB.

[Major Carrales]

If Vanguard "stipends," or whatever that are called, are going to go to HAWK MOUNTAIN, I would much rather they be full ride (including travel) scholarships for cadets, much like mine, who are of limited means and might otherwise never have the opportunity to go to a National Activity.

[PHall]

If Vanguard "stipends," or whatever that are called, are going to go to HAWK MOUNTAIN, I would much rather they be full ride (including travel) scholarships for cadets, much like mine, who are of limited means and might otherwise never have the opportunity to go to a National Activity.

According to the stuff National put out, the money went to facilities construction and maintenance at both Hawk Mountain and the Blue Beret compound at Oshkosh.

[Major Carrales]

If Vanguard "stipends," or whatever that are called, are going to go to HAWK MOUNTAIN, I would much rather they be full ride (including travel) scholarships for cadets, much like mine, who are of limited means and might otherwise never have the opportunity to go to a National Activity.

According to the stuff National put out, the money went to facilities construction and maintenance at both Hawk Mountain and the Blue Beret compound at Oshkosh.

Doesn't do much for the cadets of South Texas who spend just as much on CAP insignia et al than everyone else or the average cadet from anywhere that never gets to wear a "Blue Beret" or "Orange Helmet."

My point is, if were are going to use these funds for National Activities, there had better well be some of them South of the Mason-Dixon line, in the Southwest, in TEXAS and on the Pacific Coast.

[JC004]

I still say that this money should be available to units at each level in the form of small grants for specific projects - improving a building, buying supplies for somesuchthing, etc.  NHQ should take applications on a rolling basis and decide, say, every quarter. 

We need a nice NB member to come along and make this an agenda item.

[CAP Producer]

If Vanguard "stipends," or whatever that are called, are going to go to HAWK MOUNTAIN, I would much rather they be full ride (including travel) scholarships for cadets, much like mine, who are of limited means and might otherwise never have the opportunity to go to a National Activity.

According to the stuff National put out, the money went to facilities construction and maintenance at both Hawk Mountain and the Blue Beret compound at Oshkosh.

They also went to support construction and maintenance work at NESA's Camp Atterbury site. I have seen the site and the work done has been impressive. It will truly be a "Center of Excellence" when it is is finished.

The funds are going to support CAP national Operations Training and cadet activites for the benefit of all of our members.

[BillB]

How much of the funding from Vanguard went to SER?  SWR?  PCR?  RMR?  NER? Why does it go to three projects that have limited attendance due to travel expenses?  And aren't the areas where funding was made for cadet activities? What about funding for senior training?

[Gung Ho]

Is this why they charge your card just as soon as we order something? Does this money then go right out to fund CAP stuff? Why do I think they collect funds for orders for a long time and then maybe once a year hand out a little bit of it to try and make NHQ happy. Think of the funds we might get if they didn't screw with us on every order? It doesn't seem like we are only hearing about the bad stories and these are only a small percent of the orders CAP has with them. It sounds like 90% of the orders we places get thrown in a hat and when they get bored to death or somebody important gets wind of it they fill them. This sounds to me like something that has gone on way to long so nobody with enough say cares how bad they are so nothing is going to change. If folks find other places to get the items they need I say more power to them.
And I still don't see why we need camo uniforms. There are too many wearing camo even in the real military that shouldn't do it. How many times do we see men and women in the Army wearing camo when a dress uniform would so much better. I see so many awards ceremonies when I would think they should be proud and dress in something more fitting then a utility uniform. BDU's are for work uniforms when they are going to get their hands dirty not everyday meetings. I know others are going to reply with what they think but why are they not proud of their dress uniforms?

[a2capt]

Will we see a nice 6% slash in prices? Heck no.

But, for a while there we were paying more by ordering under the "CAP" tab. The prices have equalized since that original, separate, and horrid web site was done away with.

But instead of 6%, we had a bit more flexibility. They couldn't run their own store, and I don't believe, not even for a second, that it was because of the Hock, Nametapes, Flightbadge, et al, all selling stuff.

Certainly not because the latter namesakes were certainly happy selling stuff on their own. Granted, they had a much larger audience for their other items.

[JC004]

...
But, for a while there we were paying more by ordering under the "CAP" tab.
...

Uh yeah.  I made a comparison chart for the things like belts, buckles, and various insignia that had higher prices for CAP.  I don't remember if I posted it on CAPTalk or not.  I think that I did.

[HGjunkie]

.
And I still don't see why we need camo uniforms. There are too many wearing camo even in the real military that shouldn't do it. How many times do we see men and women in the Army wearing camo when a dress uniform would so much better. I see so many awards ceremonies when I would think they should be proud and dress in something more fitting then a utility uniform. BDU's are for work uniforms when they are going to get their hands dirty not everyday meetings. I know others are going to reply with what they think but why are they not proud of their dress uniforms?

FWIW, I don't see the problem with wearing a utility uniform so long as it looks good, IE pressed, cleaned, no tears, and boots shined if they're not rough out. Then again, if it's a banquet, then yes, I agree they should wear dress uniforms.

[Eclipse]

Does this money then go right out to fund CAP stuff? Why do I think they collect funds for orders for a long time and then maybe once a year hand out a little bit of it to try and make NHQ happy.

Because that is the contract they signed with CAP.  It is also good accounting practice.

Think of the funds we might get if they didn't screw with us on every order? It doesn't seem like we are only hearing about the bad stories and these are only a small percent of the orders CAP has with them. It sounds like 90% of the orders we places get thrown in a hat and when they get bored to death or somebody important gets wind of it they fill them. This sounds to me like something that has gone on way to long so nobody with enough say cares how bad they are so nothing is going to change. If folks find other places to get the items they need I say more power to them.

You are hearing about the few people who have had an issue.  Business 101 tells you that generally only dissatisfied customers make noise.

And I still don't see why we need camo uniforms. There are too many wearing camo even in the real military that shouldn't do it. How many times do we see men and women in the Army wearing camo when a dress uniform would so much better. I see so many awards ceremonies when I would think they should be proud and dress in something more fitting then a utility uniform. BDU's are for work uniforms when they are going to get their hands dirty not everyday meetings. I know others are going to reply with what they think but why are they not proud of their dress uniforms?

Which uniforms we are authorized or prescribed to wear has absolutely nothing to do with VG - they sell what they are told to sell.
The majority of CAP members, especially the twice-a-month-or-less crowd, has little to no use for a non-operational uniform, so unless CAP starts issuing the clothes, don't expect people to be forking over literally hundreds of dollars for uniform they will rarely, if ever, wear.

Want to have some fun?  Invite your local reservist, guardsman, or similar to a formal function that requires a jacket.   Odds are better than good that they don't have one that fits, especially if they are enlisted, and unless they work in a job that got hit with "blues Monday", they may not even have blues.