Steve Fossett

[wingnut55]

I Will tantalize you with the fact that there will be some things comming out that will be interesting for anyone involved in searching under a 'multiple command system" with it's screwed up command system

[CadetProgramGuy]

IMHO......

IF and when CAP falls into a multiple command system, the CAP IC will most likly fall into an Agency Liasion role within that command system.

and then work as the CAP IC from there.

[Flying Pig]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockwellb/sets/72157607737959209/

Some photos posted on Flickr by one of the search members.  And before all of the legal scholars start up, nobody violated any OPSEC by doing this.  All images were cleared by Madera S.O.

[RiverAux]

Personally, I would like to know if the site showed up on any of the photos flagged by participants in the "internet search" group.  Anyone seen anything about that?

[Flying Pig]

Im sure that will come up.  According to the search team, a burn spot was about all that could have been recognizable.  Having flown in that area several times, I can tell you that entire area is nothing but shades of black and grey.

[D242]

Personally, I would like to know if the site showed up on any of the photos flagged by participants in the "internet search" group.  Anyone seen anything about that?

That was along the same lines as a question I'd asked back in the thread that was running during the search. I'm curious as to how much weight any such flagged phots were given in directing the search in the first place. How will this outcome influence future use of that technology?

[Eclipse]

IMHO......

IF and when CAP falls into a multiple command system, the CAP IC will most likly fall into an Agency Liasion role within that command system.

and then work as the CAP IC from there.

I'd say it depends on the scope of the mission.  In this case, CAP was a much larger part of the response (than "normal"), and IMHO a unified command might be more appropriate.

[flyguy06]

I Will tantalize you with the fact that there will be some things comming out that will be interesting for anyone involved in searching under a 'multiple command system" with it's screwed up command system

You mean unified command. i agree it is a screwed up system. Comming from a military background and cant phathom the logic of having more than one guy in charge.

[flyguy06]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockwellb/sets/72157607737959209/

Some photos posted on Flickr by one of the search members.  And before all of the legal scholars start up, nobody violated any OPSEC by doing this.  All images were cleared by Madera S.O.

Wow. I didnt know he had an ATP and a Citation type rating. Thats cool

[flyguy06]

Was CAP involved or ask to be involved in this Search operation?

[Flying Pig]

No.  Considering my Sq. and Merced are a 20 min flight from that area.  It pretty much ended as soon as it started.  Madera SO sent their SAR to the location via helicopter, and that pretty much wrapped it up.

[desertengineer1]

No.  Considering my Sq. and Merced are a 20 min flight from that area.  It pretty much ended as soon as it started.  Madera SO sent their SAR to the location via helicopter, and that pretty much wrapped it up.

But truly, what role would CAP play at this point?

Having flown actual missions against targets later found to be no larger than that of a crumpled washing machine - I gotta agree with the veteran SAR guys.  The photos verify the challenges the searchers estimated last year.  Little or no fabric was left.  Fires had dotted tens of thousands of spots throughout this part of CA.  There's no way you would have seen this on a detailed google map image.

The actual PD was not in any searcher's favor.

[flyguy06]

CAP could have helped searc the area for items as these searchers did.

[SarDragon]

Given the terrain involved, and the number of people already involved outside of CAP, what use would a herd of less experienced CAP folks been? You can only stuff so many people in a small area before they're tripping over each other.

"phathom"? I think you might be too young to have been a "Phantom Phixer".

[flyguy06]

ooooooooook

[desertengineer1]

CAP could have helped searc the area for items as these searchers did.

Don't be fooled by the lack of terrain relief on the google earth images.  Remember what time of year we're in, and how high and remote that place is.  The teams were rotary-wing inserted at about 10,000 MSL in very unpredictable weather conditions.  The initial team went 2500' vertical and six miles from the first LZ to get there. 

Unless there's a special CAP arctic-mountain-climbing-ranger-SAR team I don't know about..... 

[desertengineer1]

Just thought of something...

If you're easily annoyed by some of the griping when teams have to walk across a parking lot...... 

Why not....  It's only ten miles in two feet of fresh snow.

hehe...

Latest news is they got most of the debris and had to terminate all efforts until next years' thaw.  Two feet of snow fell over the weekend.

Winter is upon us...

[flyguy06]

wow. I didnt know the terrain was that bad. I have never been to California. I was just wondering. Thanks.

[Flying Pig]

Thats the heart of the Sierra's.  People go missing in that area and are never found.....case in point.  I have been on a SAR or two up there, and the weather can change in seconds.  As they said, I was flying over in that area today, and the snow is on the ground. This will have to wait for next spring.  Im now waiting for the SAR to go rescue treasure hunters.

What many dont realize too, is that there are still glaciers up there also.

[SarDragon]

Here are two topo maps. Each line is a 50 foot elevation change. The closer they are, the steeper it is. The view is at a bearing of @ 30° true.

#1 - vertical look



#2 - looking at angle 15° up from vertical. There is no vertical exaggeration.