PT Uniform Question?

[talldude]

I know that (at least according to the Respect on Display Handbook) when you are in a "Military Style Uniform", you are supposed to "Present Arms" during To the Colors, and the National Anthem.

The thing I'm wondering about is; is the PT uniform considered a "Military Style Uniform?" Every where I've went (mainly encampments), we have "Presented Arms" during To the Colors / when the flag is being raised  while we are in a PT uniform. Isn't this incorrect?

If this uniform is not considered military style enough to salute higher ranking officer while in this uniform, than why do you salute during To the Colors. Wouldn't the correct thing to do (in a Pt Uniform), be to place your hand over your heart (even in formation)..??

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, I'm just wondering about this..


Edit..

I guess the main thing that I am wondering is during opening formation, is it better/more appropriate to have the cadets place their hand over their heart or to "Present Arms" while To the Colors is played.

My squadrons Cadets also say/pledge the Cadet Oath during opening formation. To do this, I (or the Cadet leading the formation) usually command(s); "Prepare for Cadet Oath."       After the command, all the Cadets raise their right hand, then they join in, after the Cadet in charge starts the Oath. Once done, the Cadets lower their hands (hopefully ) in unison.

So, I am wondering, if it would be more appropriate (in Openings) during To the Colors, to command; "Prepare for To the Colors," and in response, all present members (in PT gear) would place their hands over heart until the song was over?

[UH60guy]

Time honored rule: when in doubt, salute.

And, from the Real Military (tm) side of things: we salute in PT uniform when the bugle sounds. A PT uniform is still a uniform.

I'd extend that to CAP- if you're wearing PT clothes to perform CAP duties (in this case PT), I'd argue it's military style.

[UH60guy]

If this uniform is not considered military style enough to salute higher ranking officer while in this uniform, than why do you salute during To the Colors. Wouldn't the correct thing to do (in a Pt Uniform), be to place your hand over your heart (even in formation)..??

I want to address this- I believe (though belief is not a method) that the reason we don't salute people in PT uniform is twofold: 1) If you're in the middle of a run, you shouldn't be expected to stop and salute every officer. 2) We don't wear the symbols of our office on the PT uniform, so often you don't always know who the officers are, especially at big events like encampment where there are people from outside your squadron present.

In answer: 1) The bugle usually sounds before you start PT, so you aren't expected to stop. and 2) You always know "who" the Nation is, and you should salute the flag.

Generally, the rule I follow is I do salute the officers I recognize during breaks in PT where I'm not actively exercising (not during runs, etc), but I don't expect those people I don't know to recognize me as a major and salute accordingly.

[talldude]

Thank you for your input, sir.  :)

[Eclipse]

I can tell you our civilian / military separation of uniforms, not to mention the lack of headgear
on the whites, causes more then a few odd looks when you're on an active installation,
especially non-USAF.

"Why is that Major not wearing a hat?"

"Why is that Captain holding his hand over his heart instead of saluting the flag?"

Etc., etc.

[talldude]

I can tell you our civilian / military separation of uniforms, not to mention the lack of headgear
on the whites, causes more then a few odd looks when you're on an active installation,
especially non-USAF.

"Why is that Major not wearing a hat?"

"Why is that Captain holding his hand over his hear instead of saluting the flag?"

Etc., etc.

I definitely agree with that..

[a2capt]

Holding his hand over his what?

.. making a fake hat?

[Eclipse]

I fixed it...

[Storm Chaser]

You're not required to salute in PT uniform or any uniform that doesn't have a grade insignia, for that matter. Nothing prevents you from doing so, though. A verbal greeting is always appropriate to show proper customs and courtesy.

CAP doesn't have an official PT uniform, so most PT "uniforms" will be determined by local policy (some wings address these in supplements). When participating in special activities or encampments, follow their policies, as briefed or published.

[talldude]

I guess the main thing that I am wondering is during opening formation, is it better/more appropriate to have the cadets place their hand over their heart or to "Present Arms" while To the Colors is played.

My squadrons Cadets also say/pledge the Cadet Oath during opening formation. To do this, I (or the Cadet leading the formation) usually command(s); "Prepare for Cadet Oath."       After the command, all the Cadets raise their right hand, then they join in, after the Cadet in charge starts the Oath. Once done, the Cadets lower their hands (hopefully ) in unison.

So, I am wondering, if it would be more appropriate (in Openings) during To the Colors, to command; "Prepare for To the Colors," and in response, all present members (in PT gear) would place their hands over heart until the song was over?

[UH60guy]

If you're in a formation, I'd say a salute is more appropriate. But that's me.

To simplify, what is the drill command for hands over hearts?

It's more correct for the First Sergeant to face the formation, say "present arms," do an about face, and present arms to the colors himself until the music stops.

Not to mention, you present the situation to young cadets, many of whom are still trying to grasp the very basics of drill, where you do things differently on some days than others. Better to do it the same way as you do in BDUs or Blues to prevent confusion.

[Storm Chaser]

I guess the main thing that I am wondering is during opening formation, is it better/more appropriate to have the cadets place their hand over their heart or to "Present Arms" while To the Colors is played.

When you're in formation, regardless of uniform, you follow the commands that are given. The appropriate command, in this case, would be "Present, ARMS".

My squadrons Cadets also say/pledge the Cadet Oath during opening formation. To do this, I (or the Cadet leading the formation) usually command(s); "Prepare for Cadet Oath."       After the command, all the Cadets raise their right hand, then they join in, after the Cadet in charge starts the Oath. Once done, the Cadets lower their hands (hopefully ) in unison.

That is not a real command. The proper position and posture to recite the Cadet Oath in formation is the position of attention.

So, I am wondering, if it would be more appropriate (in Openings) during To the Colors, to command; "Prepare for To the Colors," and in response, all present members (in PT gear) would place their hands over heart until the song was over?

In formation, follow the proper commands, positions, movements, drill and ceremonies. That applies to anyone in formation even when wearing civilian clothes, which is often the case with new cadets.

[talldude]

I was giving a class at my squadrons meeting this week (on Tuesday) about customs and courtesies, and a SM 2dLt brought this up - that is the reason I posted this.

If you're in a formation, I'd say a salute is more appropriate. But that's me.

FYI we have been "Presenting Arms," and will most likely continue too.

I'm curious if any squadron's/encampment's/PD Weekend's/NCSA's/any other activity's have ever placed their hand over their heart, while in PT gear, instead of saluting during To the Colors?

[Panache]

I can tell you our civilian / military separation of uniforms, not to mention the lack of headgear
on the whites, causes more then a few odd looks when you're on an active installation,
especially non-USAF.

"Why is that Major not wearing a hat?"

"Why is that Captain holding his hand over his heart instead of saluting the flag?"

Etc., etc.

That's why I like to wear some sort of headgear with the G/W's, even if it's the (shudder) baseball cap.

[a2capt]

Dark blue BBC with an orange three blade for PAWG.

[Panache]

Dark blue BBC with an orange three blade for PAWG.

Heh.  Only if it has my Squadron number on it.

Since we probably won't get proper head wear for the G/W's, I might as well get that black fedora I've been eyeing...