What are the chances of this?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I found this ancient thread and it seemed more common-sense than all the wrangling going on right now.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3540.360

I'm not talking about the CSU...but proposed modifications to the AF uniform.

Did this ever go anywhere?

Mods: I know this is old, but it was before my time on CAPTalk.

[SarDragon]

Well, considering the fact that LtCol White hasn't logged on in over three years, and a number of the other participants in the discussion are similarly absent, it looks like that effort is, at best, dead in the water, and likely sunk.

[Duke Dillio]

I do not believe that Lt Col White is with the Civil Air Patrol anymore....  A little bird told me a story but you can find it on google for yourself....  I won't say any more than that...

[jimmydeanno]

Well, considering the fact that LtCol White hasn't logged on in over three years, and a number of the other participants in the discussion are similarly absent, it looks like that effort is, at best, dead in the water, and likely sunk.

I don't know if they allow posting to CT from prison...   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm not going to pursue where these individuals' lives have taken them...



However, I do admit that the AF uniform with the blue CAP rank slides looks very, very good, as with the blue nameplate.

I wonder why this wasn't pursued further (Ned, any insight?).

It is notable that at that time the CSU was mooted to replace the grey/white...what could have been.

[RADIOMAN015]

I found this ancient thread and it seemed more common-sense than all the wrangling going on right now.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3540.360

I'm not talking about the CSU...but proposed modifications to the AF uniform.

Did this ever go anywhere?

Mods: I know this is old, but it was before my time on CAPTalk.

The AF is not going to allow blue sliders on any of the shirts or coats, it has to be grey in order to meet the criteria of low light distinctiveness.  I do like the idea of CAP cut outs and not US cut outs on the blouse.

As far as the Combat Uniform, I don't see CAP getting away from the blue background with white lettering tapes, again it has to do with "distinctiveness".

Really to me it doesn't seem like this was anything significantly different than what we now have.  There's lots of other unresolved issues/challenges in CAP besides changing uniforms again anyways.
RM   

[RogueLeader]

I would like to have white on navy instead of ultramarine. It looks better and still maintains the distinctiveness. However, I have gotten used to the way it is, and I won't get heartburn staying the same.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The AF is not going to allow blue sliders on any of the shirts or coats, it has to be grey in order to meet the criteria of low light distinctiveness. 

We had them at one time.  Why can't we again?

Why does it have to be grey?  The idea of "distinctiveness" is so poorly defined it has more to do with someone being illiterate (can't spell "C-A-P?") than with any bloody silly "low-light/at-a-distance."

I do like the idea of CAP cut outs and not US cut outs on the blouse.

For once we agree.

As far as the Combat Uniform, I don't see CAP getting away from the blue background with white lettering tapes, again it has to do with "distinctiveness".

Someone should inform AFJROTC and SDF's then...they're pretty "indistinct."

Really to me it doesn't seem like this was anything significantly different than what we now have. 

Except it had actual colour to it and not just the execrable grey.

There's lots of other unresolved issues/challenges in CAP besides changing uniforms again anyways.
RM   

I'd warrant you wouldn't be saying that if there were a motion to get rid of all USAF uniforms and put everyone solely in polo shirts with no rank titles/insignia.

[a2capt]

The AF is not going to allow blue sliders on any of the shirts or coats, it has to be grey in order to meet the criteria of low light distinctiveness.

Cite, please.

[RADIOMAN015]

The AF is not going to allow blue sliders on any of the shirts or coats, it has to be grey in order to meet the criteria of low light distinctiveness.

Cite, please.

Relatively recent history saw the elimination of the blue sliders from the white/blue pants combination, as well as the TPU had a change to grey.   Would CAP make a unilateral move to make these changes   Likely, someone in the AF that deals with CAP uniforms decided that it wasn't "distinct" enough.  Actually in comparison to the other legitimate programs of the USCG, USN, & USMC, CAP AF type uniforms do have the most "distinctiveness".   Again I think we have more important issues in CAP to deal with rather than working on AF almost look alike uniforms
RM     

[Eclipse]

Likely, someone in the AF that deals with CAP uniforms decided that it wasn't "distinct" enough.

Cite please.

[EMT-83]

Another uniform conspiracy theory pulled out of thin air and presented as if it were a hard fact.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Relatively recent history saw the elimination of the blue sliders from the white/blue pants combination, as well as the TPU had a change to grey.   

Would CAP make a unilateral move to make these changes  

From all that we worker bees have been permitted to know about the CSU fiasco, it was a "unilateral" CAP decision (and a very illogical one).  Remember, the Air Force had signed off on the CSU...blue epaulettes and all...after CAP made the changes the AF wanted.  There is no documented proof that the AF were behind the killing off or the "greying" of the CSU.

Likely, someone in the AF that deals with CAP uniforms decided that it wasn't "distinct" enough. 

Conjecture unsupported by any of those who know more about it than most of us; i.e., Ned.

Actually in comparison to the other legitimate programs of the USCG, USN, & USMC, CAP AF type uniforms do have the most "distinctiveness".   

Not sure about that...it's hard to mistake a Young Marine wearing a chestful of ribbons on BDU's.

From talking to them, the USNSCC are quite proud to look like the United States Navy.

As a former Auxiliarist, I was quite honoured to wear the modified USCG uniform...and rarely did I hear this stuff about "distinctiveness" driven into the wall that seems so endemic to CAP.  We had silver braid, metal grade with the "A" and were quite happy with it.  As far as I know, the USCGAux had never been punished by its parent service by having a uniform part taken away/changed.

The ACA look very similar to their Army counterparts.

Again I think we have more important issues in CAP to deal with rather than working on AF almost look alike uniforms
RM     

Like getting us all in polos?

[a2capt]

The ACA look very similar to their Army counterparts.

..and when they had them, their Marine and Navy counterparts. In fact, save for the branch tape, on the utility uniforms you might have had a hard time telling, if the wearer was that well squared away.

[NCRblues]

  Remember, the Air Force had signed off on the CSU...blue epaulettes and all...after CAP made the changes the AF wanted.

I would like to play devils advocate here for a second...

Cite please?

I have never seen an official AF uniform "sign off" for anything. I have never seen ANYTHING AF for/against the TPU/CSU at all.

[capmaj]

Why is this all sounding oh so familiar?   And why do emoticons exist?

[PHall]

Where's SarDragon and his "tick, tock"?

[JK657]

  Remember, the Air Force had signed off on the CSU...blue epaulettes and all...after CAP made the changes the AF wanted.

I would like to play devils advocate here for a second...

Cite please?

I have never seen an official AF uniform "sign off" for anything. I have never seen ANYTHING AF for/against the TPU/CSU at all.

+1 You beat me to it... It seems like there seem to be a few of you on here who want to do nothing but argue with RM regardless of the topics. He's not a big fan of military uniforms and you are... so be it. There is no reason for snide comments just because he disagrees with you. The purpose here is for intelligent conversations regardless of its popularity. Isn't  treating people with respect one of the things people complain about cadets on here but then go ahead and condone it when a senior member does it. Just because you have a million posts on here does not mean the rules don't apply to you.

end/rant

[SarDragon]

Where's SarDragon and his "tick, tock"?

You are just as welcome to throw the clock out there as I am. Looks like you did OK. I'll add a little emphasis for you!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have never seen an official AF uniform "sign off" for anything. I have never seen ANYTHING AF for/against the TPU/CSU at all.

Back around '06/'07 the original plan was to have "U.S." cutouts on the CSU service coat and metal grade on the flight cap.  The AF said "no, change it," and CAP did.  They could have also said at that time to kill the blue epaulettes and metal grade, or to kibosh the CSU entirely.  They did not.  Whether or not any paperwork was done, I don't know...but from my experience the AF doesn't do anything without paperwork.

It seems like there seem to be a few of you on here who want to do nothing but argue with RM regardless of the topics. He's not a big fan of military uniforms and you are... so be it. There is no reason for snide comments just because he disagrees with you. The purpose here is for intelligent conversations regardless of its popularity. Isn't  treating people with respect one of the things people complain about cadets on here but then go ahead and condone it when a senior member does it. Just because you have a million posts on here does not mean the rules don't apply to you.

At the risk of sounding like "he started it!" it is usually, not exclusively, him who makes the "snide comments," chiefly about those who wish to wear the AF uniform being "wannabes."  I started this thread because I was curious about something I found on CT that I wasn't aware of.  He weighed in with apocryphal stories about how the AF wouldn't allow it and invocation of the meaningless "distinctiveness" canard.  It is very often he who is so zealous that the ENTIRE CAP conform to his wishes that we do not wear anything but polo shirts.

He also seemingly comes from a POV that CAP=ES and ES ONLY.  Of course, he's not the only one.  I've met (too) many people in this organisation who think we're just "flying EMS" and nothing else.  Forget CP, forget AE, forget our traditions, forget our links with the AF.

I don't speak for anyone else, but if I wanted to be "snide," there would be no misinterpretation about it.  That is not my intention.

[NCRblues]

Whether or not any paperwork was done, I don't know...but from my experience the AF doesn't do anything without paperwork.

That is my point... We all say "the AF approved this" or "the AF did not approve it". I do not think a single one of us (well, maybe Ned) has seen ANY paperwork from the AF at all concerning uniforms. I am guilty of this as well but, these "cite please" game works both ways.

[lordmonar]

Well, isn't that one of the whole issues of these uniform discussions?

What the USAF wants or does not want is almost always speculation.

Beyond the AFI there is nothing from the USAF about what they think about our uniforms, what they forsee we would be wearing in the future, and what they think about any of our (CT's) rants and raves about uniform issues.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What the USAF wants or does not want is almost always speculation.

Yes.  Nothing can exist in a vacuum, and when there is a vacuum of verifiable info from the USAF, rumours and permutations of rumours run rampant.

Beyond the AFI there is nothing from the USAF about what they think about our uniforms, what they forsee we would be wearing in the future, and what they think about any of our (CT's) rants and raves about uniform issues.

Or if they even care, as long as we don't troll for salutes we're not entitled to.

[RiverAux]

I seem to recall that the agenda item regarding the CSU had a lot of specifics on why that decision was being recommended.  Don't remember what they were though.

[PHall]

Where's SarDragon and his "tick, tock"?

You are just as welcome to throw the clock out there as I am. Looks like you did OK. I'll add a little emphasis for you!

No, that's your rice bowl. And I'm not going to break your rice bowl.


(Watch the movie The Sand Pebbles if you're confused by this.)

[SarDragon]

Fair enough.

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. (The kool graphics are temporarily off-line.)

[Spaceman3750]

I'll fall back on my favorite...

[niferous]