Glider training

[exarmyguard]

I would like to be a glider pilot through CAP.  I'm a senior member in Massachusetts and want to know how to earn it, on the cheap via CAP.  Peace.

[Eclipse]

Are you currently a glider-rated pilot?

[Flying Pig]

Your Wing should have a Glider Program coordinator if you have one.  You would need to contact them to find out the availability.  I would say most likely, you will need to be a glider pilot first.  As most Wings don't have glider programs for Senior Members.  I am a glider pilot, and CAWG only has one glider.  An S-33.

If you are a glider pilot which Im assuming your not, you just need a Form 5.  CAP instructors cannot charge for their services.  So finding one who will donate that kind of time could be rough.  But contacting your Wing Glider coordinator is your first step.  Your Sq Commander  or the Wing web site should be able to get you that.

[SilverEagle2]

want to know how to earn it, on the cheap via CAP

Then you are out of luck. 

[Eclipse]

Your Wing should have a Glider Program coordinator if you have one.  You would need to contact them to find out the availability.  I would say most likely, you will need to be a glider pilot first.  As most Wings don't have glider programs for Senior Members.  I am a glider pilot, and CAWG only has one glider.  An S-33.

Except in very rare circumstances, CAP instructor pilots aren't allowed to provide primary instruction to seniors.  I know that's true for powered, but that applies to gliders and balloons, too.  Right?

CAP instructors cannot charge for their services.  So finding one who will donate that kind of time could be rough.  But contacting your Wing Glider coordinator is your first step.  Your Sq Commander  or the Wing web site should be able to get you that.

Capt. CFI can't charge SM Student for instructions, but Mr. CFI can provide Mr. Student instruction for whatever he wants to charge.
I know a lot of CAP CFI's will give CAP members reduced rates, especially if it looks as though you might be a CAP asset later on.

But all of that is going to be a ground-level, 1-off situation that you make happen.

[RiverAux]

Except in very rare circumstances, CAP instructor pilots aren't allowed to provide primary instruction to seniors.

Would providing glider pilot training to someone that already has a pilot's license be considered primary flight training as far as CAP is concerned or would it be considered like getting an instrument rating would be for existing pilots (which is allowed)?

[exarmyguard]

Are you currently a glider-rated pilot?

No.

I haven't heard of CAP gliding until I read an article in the Volunteer. 

[Eclipse]

You might consider applying as staff for Johnson Flight Academy or the National Flight Academy.

Those have a high amount of glider ops, so plenty of opportunity and informed staff.

[gliderguy]

An important question is whether or not you've already got a license for powered aircraft.  There's a world of difference between adding on a glider rating and starting from scratch.   Adding a rating is enough training to go solo, plus 10 flights (a few other things, but you'll see what you need in the FARs). Starting from scratch in gliders is just about the same as starting from scratch in power, except you can only fly when it's nice weather and daylit, there's a glider+instructor+towplane+towpilot available, etc.  It can be done (I did it), but going the glider route will be more time consuming.

Beyond that, the regs allows for seniors to get a glider rating.  Ask for the state glider director and have fun.  And don't be shy about volunteering to help on the ground.  You'd be surprised how often open seats appear for those who serve.

[DG]

All CAP members are authorized to use CAP gliders for flight instruction toward any FAA certificate or rating.

[Climbnsink]

Seniors can get primary training in gliders.  For the OP there is a glider operation in Springfield VT active every weekend in the summer.

[airmanbooker]

In addition to what has been mentioned above, the Soaring Society of America has a fairly inexpensive training program. 

[FastAttack]

An important question is whether or not you've already got a license for powered aircraft.  There's a world of difference between adding on a glider rating and starting from scratch.   Adding a rating is enough training to go solo, plus 10 flights (a few other things, but you'll see what you need in the FARs). Starting from scratch in gliders is just about the same as starting from scratch in power, except you can only fly when it's nice weather and daylit, there's a glider+instructor+towplane+towpilot available, etc.  It can be done (I did it), but going the glider route will be more time consuming.

Beyond that, the regs allows for seniors to get a glider rating.  Ask for the state glider director and have fun.  And don't be shy about volunteering to help on the ground.  You'd be surprised how often open seats appear for those who serve.

I found it a lot easier to do my glider ticket first then i transitioned into power

saved me a lot of $$$


anyhow after what everyone said here ,

then if you get your glider ticket. Wouldn't CAP regs state that then you could do your single engine land addon rating and use CAP aircraft doing it?

Because you would be a Private Pilot already. All you doing is adding a rating in Single Engine.

just very curious.

[flyguy06]

Senior memebrs can get primary glider trainign toward a Private Pilot certificate in CAP. Gliders only though, not powered.

[FastAttack]

Senior memebrs can get primary glider trainign toward a Private Pilot certificate in CAP. Gliders only though, not powered.

I don't think your getting me

You use CAP to get your Private Pilot Glider.

technically under CAP regs , you can get additional "ratings" to your PPL. So wouldn't adding a single engine land rating to your ppl consider ok under 60-1?

Because in essence its no longer primary flight training as you are already a pilot.

[SilverEagle2]

^^ Clever

[Thrashed]

The hard part is:
Getting a glider
Getting a tow plane
Getting a glider instructor with time that will work for free
Getting a tow pilot with time and that will work for free
Paying for the glider
Paying for the tow plane
Getting good weather

Get all these things to come together dozens of times and you are set.  Good luck. 

[Flying Pig]

Ive seen planets align faster.......

[FastAttack]

The hard part is:
Getting a glider
Getting a tow plane
Getting a glider instructor with time that will work for free
Getting a tow pilot with time and that will work for free
Paying for the glider
Paying for the tow plane
Getting good weather

Get all these things to come together dozens of times and you are set.  Good luck. 

Again I am not debating the above , I am just curious if what i said would make sense

Also the above could work out if your wing is active with the glider program and so far just a few wings are. and you get an instructor to agree to it.

Believe me if I was a CFIG and i had the time i wouldn't mind doing it. All they need to do is pay for the tow and I would just be happy.

hell same thing if i was a Power instructor , get me flying and I would sign off on training as long as I am in the air.

I guess for me flying is such deep hobby that I wouldn't see myself charging.. but I would have them pay for the flight though

All i would be, is  nagging passenger telling you what to do lol.

[Climbnsink]

My squadron runs glider ops on every good weather weekend in the summer.  Still have to pay for the tows and the weather....     it can be done.   Glider flying generally takes more time commitment just the way it is.

The hard part is:
Getting a glider
Getting a tow plane
Getting a glider instructor with time that will work for free
Getting a tow pilot with time and that will work for free
Paying for the glider
Paying for the tow plane
Getting good weather

Get all these things to come together dozens of times and you are set.  Good luck. 

[NC Hokie]

The hard part is:
Getting a glider
Getting a tow plane
Getting a glider instructor with time that will work for free
Getting a tow pilot with time and that will work for free
Paying for the glider
Paying for the tow plane
Getting good weather

Get all these things to come together dozens of times and you are set.  Good luck. 

Start with the Soaring Society of America (www.ssa.org) and look for a chapter in your area that provides instruction.  The one closest to me has a yearly membership fee of $300.00, charges a flat $100.00 per year for glider rental, provides instruction at no additional cost, and charges $30.00 or less per tow.  With those rates, I could solo a glider with 12-15 hours of seat time (hours that can be applied to a powered flight rating) for around $1200.00.

Hmmmm, I might have to pay them a visit when I finish refereeing basketball in March!

[Nick]

I don't think your getting me

You use CAP to get your Private Pilot Glider.

technically under CAP regs , you can get additional "ratings" to your PPL. So wouldn't adding a single engine land rating to your ppl consider ok under 60-1?

Because in essence its no longer primary flight training as you are already a pilot.

That is indeed clever; however:

c. CAP senior members that are not current SAR/DR mission pilots must obtain permission to receive flight instruction in CAP airplanes toward FAA certificates or ratings as follows:
(1) Senior members who hold a Private Pilot Airplane Certificate or higher and have been an active CAP member for at least 1 year – Wing commander written permission.
(2) All other senior members – Written permission from the wing commander, region commander and the CAP Executive Director is required and may be granted provided the members lives more than two hours driving time from a commercial training facility.

The way I read paragraph 1, it specifically says airplane.

[Nick]

So now I have a question.  Reading over 61.109 for single-engine ratings, it talks about 40 hours of flight time, including 20 hours of flight training and 10 hours of solo flight training.  Then you drop a bit and it says "3 hours of cross-country in a single-engine airplane ... 3 hours of night flight training in a single-engine airplane ... 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane solely by reference to instruments ... 3 hours of flight training in preparation for the practical test in a single-engine airplane ... 10 hours of solo flight time in a single-engine airplane".

Am I reading this all wrong, or is that saying you only need 22 hours in a powered airplane and the rest could be done in a glider?

[Bayareaflyer 44]

Nice theory, but I think the FAA wants to have all your time in the same aircraft Category  i.e. ASEL...

[Climbnsink]

Not sure if it is 22 hours I'd have to parse through it, but the glider time counts for something, there are funny things with add ons you can sometimes combine things: Fly 3 hours at night, cross country, solely by reference to instruments. 
Note that going from Glider to Airplane you still have to take the written test, but if you go from airplane to glider you don't have to take the written.   However if you have Private airplane and I believe 200 hours I'd have to look, you can add Commercial glider easy the only extra requirements are the written test(cause you are going up a class) and ten extra solo flights.  Otherwise PTS is pretty much the same.

[FastAttack]

Nice theory, but I think the FAA wants to have all your time in the same aircraft Category  i.e. ASEL...

incorrect

Because all the time i had in gliders counted towards my Single Engine Rating. except for the parts that stated in the Airmen Practical standards as "Single Engine Aircraft" designator on it.

and McLarty what you just typed is what I exactly did prior to my checkride.

Except on the night training it also requires you do to 10 take off's and landings.
and within those 3 hours of cross country you must stop in a control towered airport.

I'll see i I can pull up the regs that my examiner used

Glider pilots to Single Engine Land Pilots are a rare breed.
I can say that because my examiner said that my father and myself were his 3-4th in his 20 years of being an check airman and he said its not common practice.

[FastAttack]

I remember he used a matrix here it is :

http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14A.pdf

Look on page 26 of this pdf.  On that page, you'll see an "Additional Rating Task Table."  That task table is useful for knowing what specific tasks you'll have to complete on your checkride given your current ratings and certificates.

[Nick]

I remember he used a matrix here it is :

http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14A.pdf

Look on page 26 of this pdf.  On that page, you'll see an "Additional Rating Task Table."  That task table is useful for knowing what specific tasks you'll have to complete on your checkride given your current ratings and certificates.

Hey, that's slick.  Makes sense too.  I might look into pursuing that route.

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

Glider pilots to Single Engine Land Pilots are a rare breed.
I can say that because my examiner said that my father and myself were his 3-4th in his 20 years of being an check airman and he said its not common practice.

Although not so common in this country... in Canuckland... the Air Cadets earn their Glider License's at 16+ (free) and many go on to also earn their Private pilots license (free).  This is what I did a long time ago    That Glider training in Canada and flying the Sierra-Nevada's in a 50:1 Sairplane really made me a better pilot.  I know what to do when the engine stops and that thermalling in a Cessna 182RG can be fun!

[FastAttack]

Glider pilots to Single Engine Land Pilots are a rare breed.
I can say that because my examiner said that my father and myself were his 3-4th in his 20 years of being an check airman and he said its not common practice.

Although not so common in this country... in Canuckland... the Air Cadets earn their Glider License's at 16+ (free) and many go on to also earn their Private pilots license (free).  This is what I did a long time ago    That Glider training in Canada and flying the Sierra-Nevada's in a 50:1 Sairplane really made me a better pilot.  I know what to do when the engine stops and that thermalling in a Cessna 182RG can be fun!

hehe, I have fun with one of the club 172's (none cap) .. I put the engine to idle and I pretty much can fly a cloud street with ease. Its a bit tricky since that prop does put a lot of drag but you can still glide for a nice distance and yet be safe doing it .