Umm... anyone else see something wrong with this?

Started by TankerT, January 30, 2007, 03:45:55 AM

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JohnKachenmeister

What is "A," Alex.

I'm a retired copper, too.  (And former Navy, and former Army, AND spent time in Marine Green as a HM3 back in the day.)

The aerial photos are for court presentation.  It helps the jury understand where things are in relation to other events, and is useful with huge scenes like the one being discussed.

This is a big reason why I have been proposing that CAP be reorganized at the National level as a unit of the Air National Guard.  The PCA does not apply to the Guard, unless they are called into Federal service.

Another former CAP officer

O-Rex

Support to Law Enforcement Personnel is okay (when approved through proper CAP-USAF channels) but you cannot chase bad guys.

I'm not real crazy about the pess coverage, though:  "Bad guys beware, CAP will rat you out - look for the red white & blue planes, or the guys and gals wearing the blue uniforms . . . . with no guns."

Some things, even honorable pursuits, are best kept low-key. 


AlaskanCFI

Quote....will rat you out..

You talk like you've done time.. good grief....

Let me explain this. 

A rat is a criminal who tells or informs on another criminal (usually a co-defendant) in order to avoid punishment from US, the good guys. 

A citizen who accepts the responsibility for protecting his country and community can never be a rat.  They are called a good citizen.  It is they, who hold civilization together..

Those who turn their back on their responsibilities, while at the same time accepting the fruits of their community,  are in a social class somewhere below the rats... 



...
Major, Squadron Commander Stan-Eval..Instructor Pilot- Alaska Wing CAP
Retired Alaska Air Guard
Retired State of Alaska Law Dawg, Retired Vol Firefighter and EMT
Ex-Navy, Ex-Army,
Firearms Instructor
Alaskan Tailwheel and Floatplane CFI
http://www.floatplanealaska.com

SAR-EMT1

"You'll never take me alive air force"  NEVER!
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

JohnKachenmeister

Another former CAP officer

afgeo4

Quote from: DNall on January 30, 2007, 04:32:02 AM
It'd be equally illegal if they flew a cop to take the pix.

While the conditions are debatable, it's illegal for the military to fund or support in any way whatsoever any law enforcement activity not directly related to drugs or terrorism. There's no loop holes. If some idiot lawyer can make a case that the military is illegally funneling funds to law enforcemnt activity by allowing federally funded CAP to support them outside the bounds of PCA, then their client's constitutional rights have been violated, they get off for good, and federal funding to CAP must cease right away. That's not an extreme interpretation, it's pretty standard. You can make a case the other way, but it doesn't matter. Ain't no amount of flying hours worth playing that close to the flame.

<FLIPPING HIS AUX ON/AUX OFF morale patch to AUX OFF>

If the Sheriff's office paid for the mission and our aircraft says Civil Air Patrol on it and not USAF Auxiliary, then what does the military have to do with this? This mission was flown by a non-profit volunteer organization set up by the US Senate in support of a law enforcement agency, but not in a law enforcement capacity. We fly for local agencies in support of disaster relief, even without AFNSEP orders. It's just the issue of the hiring agency paying us properly. That agency can be the local or state police or anyone else.

Also, it is NOT illegal for the military to SUPPORT law enforcement. The National Guard does it. In fact, it's one of their main missions. The State Defense Forces do it as well. It's one of their main missions too. In fact, even the active duty military can support law enforcement (ex: joint task force on electronic crimes staffed by the AFOSI and FBI down in Georgia). It is simply against the law for the FEDERAL military to DO law enforcement.
GEORGE LURYE

JohnKachenmeister

George:

You are correct.  Comparing the NG and SDF's though may be confusing.  NG's and SDF's are exempt from Posse Comitatus anyway.

When I was a reserve company commander I loaned three tactical vehicles to a local police department  for a fugitive search in a remote area.  Letting the cops use your trucks does not violate the PCA.  Letting cops use your troops does.
Another former CAP officer

afgeo4

NGs and SDFs aren't covered by posse comitatus, but they are military. That's the distinction I was trying to make. Not all military are banned from working with law enforcement to begin with.

The military lending out vehicles is no longer an issue. DoD prohibits anyone non-military operating military owned vehicles.
GEORGE LURYE

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: afgeo4 on January 31, 2007, 08:43:30 PM
NGs and SDFs aren't covered by posse comitatus, but they are military. That's the distinction I was trying to make. Not all military are banned from working with law enforcement to begin with.

The military lending out vehicles is no longer an issue. DoD prohibits anyone non-military operating military owned vehicles.

I think there was a rule like that back when I loaned out the trucks, too.  I got the loan approved by the CG, so I didn't really sweat it.
Another former CAP officer