Medical Staff @ Wing Encampments

[CommGeek]

Chris,

I agree..  "Emergency Care" is one thing.  I think you hit it on the head with the 'sick call'

[RiverAux]

Frankly, I don't see much need for any "medical" staffing at most encampments beyond whatever policy we come up with regarding prescription drugs, not even for emergency care.  Most encampments are at major military bases that are more than capable of handling any emergency situations. 

In the case of the turned ankle, why is there any need for CAP members to do anything other than keep the kid from getting up and walking away on it while you wait for the base medical people to show up, which shouldn't be an unreasonably long time?

I'm more on the "liberal" side of this argument regarding ES medical issues, but don't see a need for us to try to take care of emergency medical care at encampments any more than we do on squadron meeting nights.

[N Harmon]

An ER doctor may consider CPR routine...does that mean CPR is not "emergency care" when said doctor is doing CAP business?   

[Major Lord]

An ER doctor may consider CPR routine...does that mean CPR is not "emergency care" when said doctor is doing CAP business?   

6. Medical care policy.
a. Medical care within CAP is limited to emergency care, only (i.e., first aid and stabilization) within the training and qualifications of the person rendering such care, until such time that private professional or authorized military care can be obtained.

CPR is emergency care, whether it is carried out by a cadet, civilian bystander, or ER doc.

Major Lord
EMT, etc.

[mynetdude]

Frankly, I don't see much need for any "medical" staffing at most encampments beyond whatever policy we come up with regarding prescription drugs, not even for emergency care.  Most encampments are at major military bases that are more than capable of handling any emergency situations. 

In the case of the turned ankle, why is there any need for CAP members to do anything other than keep the kid from getting up and walking away on it while you wait for the base medical people to show up, which shouldn't be an unreasonably long time?

I'm more on the "liberal" side of this argument regarding ES medical issues, but don't see a need for us to try to take care of emergency medical care at encampments any more than we do on squadron meeting nights.

You only mention military bases, what about encampments that aren't on base you can't call upon a base medical staff to come check out a cadet then...

[Slim]

Frankly, I don't see much need for any "medical" staffing at most encampments beyond whatever policy we come up with regarding prescription drugs, not even for emergency care.  Most encampments are at major military bases that are more than capable of handling any emergency situations.

Most?  Most military bases that we consider "Major" don't have the space to house and feed 200+ transient people for a week.  Most of the encampments I know of are held at national guard training sites, etc.

The GLR North/MIWG encampment is held on an ANG combat readiness training center.  Base emergency services consists of contracted sheriff's deputies for security, and two civillian CFR firefighters (per 24 hour shift) who have minimal EMS training (medical first responder level).  The other issue is that those two guys are also the crash rescue staff for the airport.  If they're out on a medical call, they're unavailable if an in-flight emergency comes in.  Medical transport services (ambulances) come from the city of Alpena fire department, which is about 6 miles east of the base (10-12 minutes from time of call to arrival).  And, that ambulance from the city is one of only three in the county.  We don't like to tie it up needlessly; as long as it's not a dire emergency, we transport in corporate vehicles.

[N Harmon]

CPR is emergency care, whether it is carried out by a cadet, civilian bystander, or ER doc.

That's what I figured. I didn't know there was so much controversy there.

[Eclipse]

You only mention military bases, what about encampments that aren't on base you can't call upon a base medical staff to come check out a cadet then...

Any cadet CAP activity which is outside the reasonable reach of professional EMS has ORM issues, missions included, but encampments, especially.

In some cases the ORM will have to be accepted, but generally an encampment should be well within the reach of 911.

[Major Lord]

CPR is emergency care, whether it is carried out by a cadet, civilian bystander, or ER doc.

That's what I figured. I didn't know there was so much controversy there.

What if the CAP member is a Neurosurgeon? Can he drill burr holes in a Cadet Noggin with his Leathermen? It can get sticky.....I think that Blister care is well outside the scope of the regulation, but every encampment in the nation would have to close down if we had to call 911, parents, or doc-in-the box for bad fitting boots.....

Major Lord

[RiverAux]

In some cases the ORM will have to be accepted, but generally an encampment should be well within the reach of 911.

Thats pretty much what I'm saying.  Yes, there are a few large activities that are truly held out in the middle of nowhere, but most are going to be close enough that CAP members aren't going to need to do much. 

[N Harmon]

CAP can always contract with a local EMS provider, or get a military medic if necessary.

[Major Lord]

CAP can always contract with a local EMS provider, or get a military medic if necessary.

That would be a "Ned"kind of question. Can we contract out our Medical support? I don't think we can hire in-house support without accepting the liabilities attached to their actions, exactly what we ( CAP, Inc.) is trying to avoid. As far as a military medic, under whose authority and jurisdiction would he operate?

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

I dunno  :clap:

When I was at NBB in 1999 we had a paramedic from the Air National Guard who stayed at the activity and served as medical.

[Major Lord]

I don't doubt it.......I could tell you some of the things I have seen in CAP, but I will have to wait for the Statute of Limitations to run.......

Major Lord

[JayT]

CAP can always contract with a local EMS provider, or get a military medic if necessary.

That would be absurdly expensive.

[RiverAux]

Why do you need to "contract" with anyone.  Call 911 and go with whoever shows up.  I still don't see the need to have paramedics or EMTs sitting around "just in case". 

[JayT]

Why do you need to "contract" with anyone.  Call 911 and go with whoever shows up.  I still don't see the need to have paramedics or EMTs sitting around "just in case".

What about the cadet who keeps getting blisters? If you called for a bus for every cadet who had poorly fitting boots, you'd soon be 'Those ten days of Hell when those air force kids were in town' to the local EMS service. My service charges about $500 for a BLS response and transport, and around $800 Plus for an ALS response and transport.

[mynetdude]

Why do you need to "contract" with anyone.  Call 911 and go with whoever shows up.  I still don't see the need to have paramedics or EMTs sitting around "just in case".

What about the cadet who keeps getting blisters? If you called for a bus for every cadet who had poorly fitting boots, you'd soon be 'Those ten days of Hell when those air force kids were in town' to the local EMS service. My service charges about $500 for a BLS response and transport, and around $800 Plus for an ALS response and transport.

Even if they don't transport, it can get spendy somebody still has to pay for them to show up and treat you on the scene.

[Ned]

Why do you need to "contract" with anyone.  Call 911 and go with whoever shows up.  I still don't see the need to have paramedics or EMTs sitting around "just in case".

What about the cadet who keeps getting blisters?

Ummm, how about common sense and moleskin?

Reminding cadets and parents of the importance of breaking in footgear prior to the activity?

Good first level supervisors who actually check the cadets' feet for hotspots prior to blister formation and applying preventative care?

Letting the cadet wear athletic shoes as a medical accomodation?



Guys, it is worth remembering that simple "Mommy care" stuff like bandaids, sunscreen, and "let's call your folks and see if it is OK for you to have a Tylenol" are not first aid nor practicing medicine without a license. 

And can be done by anyone with common sense and parental permission.

That's kinda one of the main reasons we have adult tactical officers watching over our cadets at encampment - to be available for just these sorts of non-emergencies, and make the call when professional medical care may be appropriate.

And why we always have one or more seniors present at any cadet activity.

To be the adult with common sense.

[Gung Ho]

We should do what we can to protect our own. 911 doesn't always work. Last year there was a child that fell into a pool, 911 was called. Ambulance is based only 5 blocks from this house but yet it took 45 min's to get and ambulance there. Why?
Because when they dialed 911 it was routed to the wrong 911 center and it took that long to get it figured out. Now this was a house in townwith a fixed address. What do you think could happen if we are out and about who knows where? Out hunting down and ELT in the middle of no where or God knows where. How fast can 911 help? I'm not saying we need medical staff with us at all times but what if there was a member that was trained as and EMT or paramedic? And we alowed him to have his basic equipment with him. No we don't need to have a staffed medical unit but I sure feel we need to embrace what or who is out there now.