Radiological Monitoring

[RiverAux]

As the "SAFETY ABOVE ALL" folks continue to triumph over those who actually want to get something done, I'm incredibly surprised that CAP still has any provisions at all for radiological monitoring. 

[JayT]

John,  Chances are the nuclear material from a dirty bomb is even partically shielded (in a metal case for example) it would not be detected from aircraft flying at 1000 feet AGL. (the altitude specified in CAP Radiological Aerial Monitoring)Even nuclear power plants barely give a reading in counters  CAP would be useless in locating such nuclear material. And I'm not sure how many local Emergency Management agencies even have geiger counters for aerial or ground teams anymore. The military and DHS has better equipment than would be available to CAP. As to a health hazard, it would depend on how the bomb was shipped, it's container would be determining factor.

Well, my thinking was that if there is some equipment that can detect radiation from a threat weapon from the air, the part of the Air Force that has 575 light observation airplanes strategically pre-positioned over the entire United States probably should have access to such equipment, but there I go again, not thinking like a good corporate civilian.

More better we count birds.  That will get us on the cover of Volunteer!

Wow, Major. I think we agree on something.

[Hawk200]

The ARM patch looks really good on my uniform right now.

And how exactly did you manage to recieve it? It ceased being awarded in about '96, IIRC. Those that were authorized it were permitted to continue to wearing until the latest reg dropped it.

Just because something exists and it seems related to courses you took doesn't mean you can just wear it.

Edit: Never mind. Just noticed that it's in the current 39-1. Just make sure you've been awarded it properly. That means having a Form 2A in your file with proper signature, and the necessary appropriate documentation covering it. I don't think just taking an online course qualifies though.

[LittleIronPilot]

I sure would LOVE to get ARM/GRM training, but man I think finding a unicorn would be easier!

[KyCAP]

Hate to burst anyones bubble, but the current word from CAP-USAF is no AFAM coverage for Radiological Monitoring missions or TRAINING related to that  and that we should NOT be telling our customers that we can perform that service.

[ThorntonOL]

AFAM coverage?

[arajca]

AFAM = Air Force Assigned Mission. Missions that come with federal funding and insurance.

[SAR-EMT1]

In other words: the USAF does not support the use of CAP for RadMon any longer.

...

I'm off to count birds.

[ThorntonOL]

Then they should amend REG 60-3, chapter 1 section (?) 28 and chapter 2 section 2-3 af.
And also would have to shutdown any currently running ARM and GRM programs in CAP.
Or is the MOU with another agency? Does the Air Force have a say with every MOU?
Confused as I'm only starting in the ES side of CAP and don't want any one asking if we can do this and finding out that it's not allowed while regs say it is currently. (with permission of course from Wing.) (or is it Region?)

Can someone at least explain the history of the this spevialized mission as I'm confused as why we have it and why we really can't do much with it currently as i'm picking up on a few pieces but am conpletely befuddled.

[SAR-EMT1]

Gladly.

CAP first got this mission through working with the USAF and Office of Civil Defense  (FEMA's grandpa) as just one of several missions we would assume in the event the cold war got hot.
The initial idea was that when we went to war with the rompin stompin russians and they dropped a bomb or ICBM on one of our bases or cities that CAP would have the mission of flying a perimeter to determine the extent of the radiation cloud, while CAP ground teams would bolster CD teams on the ground.
This data would then be forwarded to the govenment.
It was a standard mission profile til the end of the Regan Presidency. Once the Wall came down, so did the expectation for CAP to conduct RadMon activities.

Today, with DHS and Congress on a mission to find cheap resources, they are casting a glace in our direction. Prblem is, while Dept of Energy National Response team, has Hueys with equipment capable of picking up a dirty bomb or something like that, the equipment we trained with is nowhere near that precise. (See above) ... and I kinda doubt we (CAP) still possesses the old equipment. -- I know that in some cases, the issuing bodies reclaimed alot of the material.

I have heard that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, that CAP staged some RADMON planes to cover the eastern seaboard. Don't have confirmation though.

Hope the info helps you Thornton

[ThorntonOL]

Ok that answers some of my post questions. (actually most of them.)

[LittleIronPilot]

If the mission no longer exists, and we no longer will be allowed to train in it, than it needs to be removed from the 60-3 and the SQTR's and eServices entries should go away.

[ThorntonOL]

I think there is no SQTR's for GRM and ARM, if there is let me know where to find them.

[Short Field]

They are there in the SQTRs section.  The tasks required are complete GES and:

For ARM:  Satisfactorily complete approved Airborne Radiological Monitoring training

or for GRM:  Satisfactorily complete approved Radiological Monitoring training

These seem to fall into the same category as the Mountain Flying Clinic which requires MP status and "Satisfactory completion of Mountain Flying Clinic".

Doesn't really establish any detailed requirements, but if you have, you can get it loaded.  What good it does, I really don't know.

[ThorntonOL]

were exactly did you find the SQTRS?
I didn't see them of course i might have missed them and i'm going to check again.

[Short Field]

eServices - Ops Quals - SQTR Entry - pull down menu under Achievements.

[Major Carrales]

When I first joined CAP in 1998, there were ARM people in the Wing that flew missions near a reactor at Bay City, Texas some 90 miles southwest of Houston.  I am unsure if these stories were then recent, but it was done as late as say 1995?

[BillB]

A member owned aircraft had an A&P cut a 1 1/4 hole in the bottom of his aircraft and a rubber grommet around the hole. This just required a note in the mainenance log and inspected annually to insure no cracks radiated from the hole. A Geiger counter head fit nicely in the hole connected by cable to the counter. This made it easy to fly a radiological survey pattern with the observer making notes on readings and locations. This was in the late 1990's and both the pilot and observer were ARM qualified.

[ThorntonOL]

Found them, took a bit of navigation.
So with all the plants haveing their own people who are qualifed, what are those few missions CAP still runs or ran until recently? (Yeah, I know GRM or ARM but exactly what was it we (CAP)were suppose to be looking for? possible leaks?)

[SAR-EMT1]

Nah, just checking that the background radiation level around the plants were in the norms. Remember our gear wasn't /isn't very precise. ALso remember that CAP no longer trains for this mission. As the SQTRs show, to be trained you have to go through an outside agency in your state and the mission would usually be with that same agency. (If the program exsists at all where you are)