PA Rep to introduce legislation on CAP border & homeland security missions

[RiverAux]

See http://wfmz.com/view/?id=65615.  Has some good video of CAP members loading supplies. 

[thefischNX01]

I'd like to read the bill.  But based on this I'm saying "Finally!"

[DNall]

I'll reserve judgement, but most of the talk on this from all sides has been politics. If they really wanted us flying the border they'd put us down there on customs (remember they're ICE now) missions & change the briefing instructions to radio/satphone in suspicious activity as we observe it. The problem is you're still talking about daylight eyeball, versus using any kind of technology. FLIR would be real handy down there, not to mention on SaR.

[FARRIER]

Kelly's Heroes (1970)

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Moriarty: Crap!

[desert rat]

Good intentions, but we will have to wait and see what will come about.  Sometimes politicians talk just to hear their own voice.

[RiverAux]

Okay, here is the Congressman's news release http://wfmzimg.dayport.com/img/2-26-DentRelease.doc

This is the meat of the release:

Congressman Dent's legislation authorizes the Secretary of Homeland Security to utilize CAP assets in two important kinds of homeland security missions.  First, they can be deployed to protect against illegal entry, as well as against "trafficking in goods, currency, people, and other substances."  Second, they can also be utilized in response to an act of terrorism or natural disaster by assisting in damage assessment, search and rescue, evacuations, and the transportation of essential materials. 

The bill will supposedly be introduced tomorrow. 

It will be interesting to see how they've set things up to allow the law enforcement stuff so as to avoid posse comitatus. 

The second part seems sort of redundant as we can already do that stuff. 

[DNall]

Yeah I'm a bit uncomfortable with that as stated.

The first point is dangerously close to law enforcement. I mean surveil & report, then break off to a safe distance for comm support, that's doable, but staying on target & guiding LE in on top of them is not okay in any way shape or form. Border Patrol has thier own air force for that, and better equipped than us.

The second point river is Conngress authorizing the secretary of DHS to task CAP on missions. That is a little wierd. DHS can already task CAP thru AF now, so is this allowing DHS to task CAP directly & using DHS funds w/o talking to AF? Cause that would be real bad for us in the long run.

In other words, good intentions chasing after an idea but not addressing the critical issues that have prevented this from being solved decisively to date. I'll have to see exactly how the bill is written & try to figure out how that stands in relation to PCA. Interesting development though, I think I'd spend some time talking with him about the details & see if it can be fixed up.

[RiverAux]

There is a photo on the tv station web page http://wfmz.com/view/?id=65867of what appears to be a CAP member standing besides the Rep while announcing the proposal.  This isn't shown in the news report of the press conference so I don't know if that is file or whether CAP people were with him for the announcement.  If they were, I wonder if that had to be coordinated through national as it would certainly seem to show CAP support for specific legislation.  Not sure what the rules are there.

Can't wait to see the actual language.

[DrDave]

Any one from PAWG working with the Congressman on  this?

[fyrfitrmedic]

 I haven't seen anything come down the pipeline from PAWG re: this yet.

[Tubacap]

I know that the PAWG staff has been working with the congressman on this.  I don't know any of the details however.

[Al Sayre]

Hopefully they'll remember to include job protection for call ups...

[fyrfitrmedic]

Hopefully they'll remember to include job protection for call ups...

[nodding emphatically in agreement]

My current employer *may* grant unpaid leave, but even that's not a sure thing by a long shot.

[FARRIER]

Another article on this subject:

http://www.pennlive.com/expresstimes/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-10/1172552862203590.xml&coll=2

[JC004]

Any one from PAWG working with the Congressman on this?

The wing Vice Commander is the one speaking in the TPU.  So, I assume most of the coordination was done by the command staff and the legislative liaison person.  I got the impression this was done pretty quickly from the e-mails I saw before it. 

I don't see the bill listed on thomas.loc.gov yet...   

[JohnKachenmeister]

I kind of share DNall's concerns for the long-term effects of this.

The existing law places CAP as an Auxiliary of the USAF when supporting ANY federal agency, but this proposed law does seem to by-pass USAF command channels.  I hate to use cliche terms like "Slippery slope" but I see this as a step down that hill.

Follow my thinking here for just a minute:

There are two ways to get CAP to participate in Law Enforcement missions as a federal asset:

1.  Repeal or significantly modify the Posse Commitatus Act  to permit the USAF to use CAP in a direct LE role, or...

2.  Transfer CAP out of the USAF, assign CAP to the DHS (along with, but not under the Coast Guard) and then the PCA is no longer a concern, since we  will no longer be part of the USAF.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but we're partway there already.  We have a military uniform of our own now, "USAF Auxiliary" is being removed from vehicles and aircraft, and now this legislation that makes us directly accountable to DHS agencies rather than as a USAF asset detailed to DHS.

I could easily forsee a situation where CAP becomes sort of a "Flying Coast Guard."  Part of the USAF when the USAF needs light aircraft support, but otherwise a law enforcement agency under DHS.  Just like the USCG is a maritime LE agency, unless called into service for the Navy.

Now, the big question in my pea-sized and alcohol-fogged brain... is such a plan a "Bad" thing?

[Al Sayre]

I could easily forsee a situation where CAP becomes sort of a "Flying Coast Guard."  Part of the USAF when the USAF needs light aircraft support, but otherwise a law enforcement agency under DHS.  Just like the USCG is a maritime LE agency, unless called into service for the Navy.

This might be the answer to a lot of our problems if implemented correctly, but I can also see an opportunity to worsen our current bout of organizational schizophrenia.

[lordmonar]

It all depends on what you think CAP should be doing.  Should CAP be serving our country in anywhat that it can or should it only limit itself to serving the USAF?

My feelings is that I want to serve my country.  If that means loosing the USAF-AUX status....so be it.

[thefischNX01]

It all depends on what you think CAP should be doing.  Should CAP be serving our country in anywhat that it can or should it only limit itself to serving the USAF?

My feelings is that I want to serve my country.  If that means loosing the USAF-AUX status....so be it.

I would agree with that.  I see enormous potential for CAP outside of the AF, particularly in the items this bill addresses.  Remember, CAP was originally placed under the Office of Civil Defense during the Second World War.  We weren't under the Army Air Forces until April 29, 1943, and of course, didn't become 'officially' the USAF Auxiliary until 1950 i believe.  In the beginning, we were our own agency, and that's how we operated during Coastal Patrol Operations.  If we can do that ourselves, then maybe an Indepentdent Civil Air Patrol is the destiny of this organization. 

Is it an honor to be an Auxiliary of the Air Force? Yes, however, is honor lost if we were to be our own agency?

[DNall]

Well of course I'm of the opinion that CAP exists to serve the coutry BY helping the AF, and by extension helping the AF support state/local emergency needs, and otherwise bettering the community through our impact on youth & aviation. That has always been the way. And if we have spare time, people, resopurces, etc or if old missions are sliding away from us, then we need to adapt to find new ways of aiding the AF rather than trying to find someone else who wants to buy what we're selling.

It's selfish to chase off on our own trying to do our own thing just cause we like what we're doing or whatever. Fact is we die fast w/o AF. And even assume you follow the above plan & keep federal funding. Who is going to fight for you now to keep that figure high? AF has a sentimental bond, DHS doesn't. DHS has a competing AF of their own & makes noise about CAP getting such strong appropriations. We live cause AF gives us space in their budget & fights to keep us alive. You just can't make it w/o the 800lbs blue gorilla on your side.

And finally, what in God's name would posess anyone to think CAP involvement in direct CG-style LE would be good. CAP members with sidearms in pursuit of drug smugglers w/ a combined air/grd team, yeah that's not remotely going to happen, and thank God. There's a reason PCA applies to us & it's a very good thing. That's the line we don't want our people to cross for a long list of reasons, none of which are leaglistic.