Civil Air Patrol and knifes

Started by dman12323, January 11, 2011, 03:09:03 AM

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davidsinn

Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

ol'fido

A nice little sheath knife that is very handy but doesn't appear to be in the "hard kewl" arena is the Cold Steel Master Hunter with Kydex sheath. It has a 4", full tang blade; lanyard hole; rubberized grip; and a spine that is about 1/4" where it meets the grip. It's a carbon blade so that you have to keep it well oiled but I prefer carbon blades. Just a very utilitarian blade.

Another good knife for ground teams is one of the Victornox lockbacks. They are a bit larger than your standard "Swiss Army" knife but very useful. I believe the model I have is called the Rucksack. It also has one of the better saw blades on the market.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

SABRE17

this might come as a bizarre question but ill give it a shot.

if some one is using their member owned vehicle in a mission, can they have an out of reg knife/tool in said vehicle?

I myself keep a crow bar and sledge hammer in my car, I don't usually use said vehicle on missions but I felt like asking.

manfredvonrichthofen

Quote from: SABRE17 on January 13, 2011, 12:35:14 AM
this might come as a bizarre question but ill give it a shot.

if some one is using their member owned vehicle in a mission, can they have an out of reg knife/tool in said vehicle?

I myself keep a crow bar and sledge hammer in my car, I don't usually use said vehicle on missions but I felt like asking.
That is a bit of an odd subject being that sometimes that sort of thing is just flat illegal. I wouldn't keep something in my car just so that I could have it semi handy, that to me would still be an integrity issue.

SABRE17

After watching a state trooper unable to break a window, of a car that was on fire, using only his Maglight. i thought it would best to keep something useful in my Subaru...

hows it illegal?

davidsinn

Quote from: SABRE17 on January 13, 2011, 12:46:21 AM
After watching a state trooper unable to break a window, of a car that was on fire, using only his Maglight. i thought it would best to keep something useful in my Subaru...

hows it illegal?

His idea of a tool and your idea of a tool are two different things... A crowbar or sledge in your car would be ok.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

manfredvonrichthofen

Quote from: SABRE17 on January 13, 2011, 12:46:21 AM
After watching a state trooper unable to break a window, of a car that was on fire, using only his Maglight. i thought it would best to keep something useful in my Subaru...

hows it illegal?
In some states just having a large knife in your vehicle is illegal, especially if it is under the seat or in the glove box. Some businesses like Cook INC. or Boston Scientific INC. say that they will have your vehicle towed and press charges if you have a weapon of any type in your vehicle.

If you are wanting something in your vehicle to bust glass or cut seat belts, the best thing is that tool. There are many tools on the market that are made to break glass and cut seat belts.

No matter what your state law is, I still wouldn't hide something in your vehicle instead of carrying it on your person just because you know you aren't allowed to carry it, that is just the same as trying to get around a regulation, which is an integrity violation anyways. Just have what you are allowed to have, and leave the rest at home.

Eclipse

Quote from: SABRE17 on January 13, 2011, 12:35:14 AM
this might come as a bizarre question but ill give it a shot.

if some one is using their member owned vehicle in a mission, can they have an out of reg knife/tool in said vehicle?

I myself keep a crow bar and sledge hammer in my car, I don't usually use said vehicle on missions but I felt like asking.

Of course.

One must heed Falstaff in these situations.

"That Others May Zoom"

commando1

I carry several items in my vehicle that might be frowned upon if I carried it on a mission. Machete, pepper spray, axe etc. I use it in my line of work but would never attempt to carry it in my 24 hour gear. However if there happened to be a pressing need for and axe or machete or pepper spray it would be rather handy to have at a mission would it not?  >:D
Non Timebo Mala

manfredvonrichthofen

Quote from: commando1 on January 13, 2011, 04:17:34 AM
I carry several items in my vehicle that might be frowned upon if I carried it on a mission. Machete, pepper spray, axe etc. I use it in my line of work but would never attempt to carry it in my 24 hour gear. However if there happened to be a pressing need for and axe or machete or pepper spray it would be rather handy to have at a mission would it not?  >:D

Is an axe allowed? I think one machete is allowed by the GTL, and only in areas where it would actually be needed. However, an axe, by axe I mean small like a tomahawk, would that be a huge no-go for the GTL to carry? I would think it should be ok, only should. That does not mean that it is though.

GTCommando

manfredvonrichthofen,

Here's a quote from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide. Hope this answers your question.

Quotee. Restrictions on Knives: You may only wear a sheath knife if authorized by your team leader. Sheath
knives cannot have a blade longer than 6" or a total length of greater than 11". The sheath must adequately
secure the knife and protect the wearer from the blade. If authorized, sheath knives will be worn only on the
pistol belt or carried inside the pack. The following knife types are not authorized: boot knives, butterfly
knives, switch blades, double edged knives, "Rambo" style survival knives, or knives with retracting sheaths.
Machetes or hatchets can only be carried by senior members when needed for that specific sortie. No knives
may be visible when the member is performing crash sight surveillance duty.
C/Maj, CAP                 
Alpha Flight Commander                     
Pathfinder Composite squadron
Earhart #15889

"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers." -- Socrates

manfredvonrichthofen

Quote from: GTCommando on January 13, 2011, 12:41:41 PM
manfredvonrichthofen,

Here's a quote from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide. Hope this answers your question.

Quotee. Restrictions on Knives: You may only wear a sheath knife if authorized by your team leader. Sheath
knives cannot have a blade longer than 6" or a total length of greater than 11". The sheath must adequately
secure the knife and protect the wearer from the blade. If authorized, sheath knives will be worn only on the
pistol belt or carried inside the pack. The following knife types are not authorized: boot knives, butterfly
knives, switch blades, double edged knives, "Rambo" style survival knives, or knives with retracting sheaths.
Machetes or hatchets can only be carried by senior members when needed for that specific sortie. No knives
may be visible when the member is performing crash sight surveillance duty.
I was pretty sure I had seen something to that effect in the GTM/UDF Guide, thank you for finding that I haven't had time to look yet. So from that I take it that it would be ok to have a hatchet in the base gear and not take it on the sortie? I can think of some nice things to do in Base Camp with a machete like chopping some fire wood.

Thom

It sounds like the regs are trying to restrict what you wear/carry on your person, not every thing that might be in your vehicle in the parking lot.

I'd wager that a large number of us routinely carry quite a few "preparedness" items in our vehicles that are either not allowed, or not needed, on most GT or UDF sorties. That doesn't mean I'm going to remove all of those items before I respond to a mission base. I'm just going to do what I do everywhere else: leave the stuff in the truck that isn't required or allowed at the event I'm attending.

FYI, locally we have Law Enforcement Officer members who will arrive in their patrol vehicle. You don't want to start counting the number of "verboten" items they have stored in those! But they leave them in the car while they go out on the sortie and everyone is happy.

Simple.


Thom



jeders

^What he said. If it's in your car, it shouldn't be an issue. In TX, you're legally allowed to have illegal knives in your car, as long as they stay in your car. So, if knives, hatchets, crow bars, etc stay in your car on a mission, you're fine. Now as soon as you take them out of your car and carry them in your pack/on your person, then you're breaking regs, and possibly the law. While the state of TX says that I can have an illegal knife in my car or home or while going between the two, once I start walking around in public with it, I'm breaking the law.

So leave it in the car or, unless you need it in your car, leave it at home.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Ned

Honest question:  Why do we think that the language from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide is regulatory or in any way affects what members must do or not do when they are not students at NESA?


N Harmon

Quote from: Ned on January 13, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
Honest question:  Why do we think that the language from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide is regulatory or in any way affects what members must do or not do when they are not students at NESA?

Well, this may be wrong, but the CAP Knowledgebase seems to imply the task guide is regulatory.
NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
Monroe Composite Squadron

davidsinn

Quote from: Ned on January 13, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
Honest question:  Why do we think that the language from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide is regulatory or in any way affects what members must do or not do when they are not students at NESA?

Because it's a mandatory carry item for GTMs and it's all we have for guidance in this area.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

ol'fido

We could probably fill several volumes with things you should know for GT/UDF that are not in the task guide.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Eclipse

Quote from: Ned on January 13, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
Honest question:  Why do we think that the language from the GTM/UDFT Task Guide is regulatory or in any way affects what members must do or not do when they are not students at NESA?

What does NESA have to do with this?

The GT / UDF book is the bible of Groupd ops in the same way that the aircrew task book is the bible of air ops.  That is where the detail of all the tasking is found, your sign-offs are supposed to be tracked, and is required equipment for both types of crews.

Of course it is regulatory.

"That Others May Zoom"