Just got an E-mail from my wing cc.......ICUT should go live in two weeks (20 Aug)....this is from Jonny Dean at NHQ.
A notice on eServices now says the same thing.
Heard about it last week at encampment.
So do you have to take ICUT or will ACUT/BCUT be grandfathered in?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 03, 2012, 08:44:53 PM
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R100_001_162D77B8183A1.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R100_001_162D77B8183A1.pdf)
A few key things clarified...
ICUT upgrades:
g. Members who hold a valid ACUT qualification as of the formal introduction of the
ICUT course will need to take the OP1 section of the ICUT course, IAW paragraph b above,
which is an orientation to the 21st Century CAP Communications system; however, they have
the option of not taking the ICUT sections about operation of VHF-FM radios (T1) and radio
operating procedures (OP2). The Learning Management System used for online ICUT
instruction and Ops Quals are structured to reflect this option. It is recommended that all
communicators take all sections of ICUT in order to be familiar with the training received by all
members.
No info though on BCUT being grandfathered in? I just spent a Saturday not too long ago taking a BCUT course, with "outdoor practice" and doing different practice scenarios with an evaluator.
Quote from: spacecommand on August 08, 2012, 03:40:24 AM
No info though on BCUT being grandfathered in? I just spent a Saturday not too long ago taking a BCUT course, with "outdoor practice" and doing different practice scenarios with an evaluator.
Quote from: CAPR 100-1, para 5.2.b.b. Members authorized to operate on CAP frequencies on the issue date of this regulation, including for both Communications Program and ES Program, as well as other administrative reasons, must requalify within 3 years by taking the first module of the ICUT course, Orientation to the CAP Communications System, and completing the online test. Completion of the ICUT modules on operation of VHF-FM radios and standard radio operating procedures is optional for those previously qualified for a CAPF 76, Radio Station Authorization.
Essentially, everyone who currently has an ROA will need to upgrade. It would be best to do it ASAP.
This thing has been the Duke Nukem Forever of CAP. Lets hope it doesn't faceplant like Duke did when it finally came out.
I'm wondering where it was Beta tested. Sure wasn't in CAWG.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 08, 2012, 04:54:45 AM
I'm wondering where it was Beta tested. Sure wasn't in CAWG.
NESA for the last two years, plus several wings, if I remember correctly.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 08, 2012, 04:54:45 AM
I'm wondering where it was Beta tested. Sure wasn't in CAWG.
So I signed into eServices last night, and noticed the Learning Management System under my restricted apps. So I guess TXWG is part of the Beta. Though since I haven't been told anything officially I'm not sure if I should go ahead and take it or just wait a couple more weeks.
Quote from: spacecommand on August 08, 2012, 03:40:24 AM
No info though on BCUT being grandfathered in? I just spent a Saturday not too long ago taking a BCUT course, with "outdoor practice" and doing different practice scenarios with an evaluator.
According to the ICUT link in my eServices, if you have ACUT, you have to take module 1 called OP1. If you do NOT have ACUT, even if you have BCUT, you have to take all 3 modules, OP1, T1, and OP2.
Even though I have ACUT, I'm thinking of taking the full ICUT course when it's ready. I don't get much time working with comms, so the review for me would be helpful.
Quote from: Walkman on August 08, 2012, 03:15:56 PM
Even though I have ACUT, I'm thinking of taking the full ICUT course when it's ready. I don't get much time working with comms, so the review for me would be helpful.
I am thinking of doing the same. To me it is more about knowledge and proficiency than just checking off a box.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 08, 2012, 03:51:52 AM
Quote from: spacecommand on August 08, 2012, 03:40:24 AM
No info though on BCUT being grandfathered in? I just spent a Saturday not too long ago taking a BCUT course, with "outdoor practice" and doing different practice scenarios with an evaluator.
Quote from: CAPR 100-1, para 5.2.b.b. Members authorized to operate on CAP frequencies on the issue date of this regulation, including for both Communications Program and ES Program, as well as other administrative reasons, must requalify within 3 years by taking the first module of the ICUT course, Orientation to the CAP Communications System, and completing the online test. Completion of the ICUT modules on operation of VHF-FM radios and standard radio operating procedures is optional for those previously qualified for a CAPF 76, Radio Station Authorization.
Essentially, everyone who currently has an ROA will need to upgrade. It would be best to do it ASAP.
Thanks, but isn't a CAPF 76 a ROA "Radio Operator Authorization"(that's what it says on my card) rather than a "Radio Station Authorization" (RSA?).
That is correct.
From the Forms index online:
| F76 | | Civil Air Patrol Radio Operator Authorization
(Issued by region or wing DCs only) |
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on August 08, 2012, 03:18:57 PM
I am thinking of doing the same. To me it is more about knowledge and proficiency than just checking off a box.
Too much too do and not enough time to do it in for me to stay really proficient at everything I'm interested in in CAP. I'll take any remedial train gin I can.
Seriously, if money didn't matter, I'd make CAP my full-time vocation.
Quote from: Walkman on August 09, 2012, 01:07:25 AM
Seriously, if money didn't matter, I'd make CAP my full-time vocation.
When I retired I did CAP full time or at least a lot. When I got divorced and had to go back to work, it cut into my CAP time.
I play the lottery to finance my bid at being a future Wing Commander 8)
Quote from: Private Investigator on August 09, 2012, 09:36:09 AM
When I retired I did CAP full time or at least a lot. When I got divorced and had to go back to work, it cut into my CAP time.
I play the lottery to finance my bid at being a future Wing Commander 8)
*Like*
The only reason I would not do all modules for now, is that module 2, reteaches the phonetic alphabet to start and to watch a video of someone going alpha, braveo, charlie, delta..... is a little too much at times.
We need a subversive movement that teaches the wrong phonetic alphabet:
Lavatorial
Broccoli
Copenhagen
Darkman
Esophagus
Ferrengi
Gulf (not "Golf" and always make a huge deal about the spelling!)
Hardkewl
Inception
Lama
Mortimer
Nickelback
Orangutan
Propecia
Quark
Rotoscope
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Tangerine
Unterseeboote
Valedictorian
Xylophone
Ybecausewelikeyou
Zambone
You forgot three.
Jambalaya
Kimchee
Whiskey – sorry can't change that one, gotta have whiskey!
Quote from: Eclipse on August 09, 2012, 02:39:16 PM
We need a subversive movement that teaches the wrong phonetic alphabet:
[snip]
Xylophone
Ybecausewelikeyou
Zambone
You mean, like Bushisms or Jesse Jacksonisms? Made-up words? BTW, you spelled Ferengi wrong >:D
Absotively
Breakativity
Countitude
and so on...
Whiskey Tangerine Ferengi! ;D
CAPFlight, this is mission base. Proceed to grid Darkman 210 Broccoli Copenhagen. Over.
Quote from: Walkman on August 09, 2012, 02:59:06 PM
Whiskey Tangerine Ferengi! ;D
CAPFlight, this is mission base. Proceed to grid Darkman 210 Broccoli Copenhagen. Over.
Man, that would be so awesome, and also provide a CPR opportunity for some of our more tightly wound CULs!
Quote from: Eclipse on August 09, 2012, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Walkman on August 09, 2012, 02:59:06 PM
Whiskey Tangerine Ferengi! ;D
CAPFlight, this is mission base. Proceed to grid Darkman 210 Broccoli Copenhagen. Over.
Man, that would be so awesome, and also provide a CPR opportunity for some of our more tightly wound CULs!
NOW THAT's
what I call full circle training!!! 8)
Sorry to derail this thread any further, but I can't resist...
From the movie Hot Shots:
QuoteLt. Commander Block: Yankee Doodle Floppy Disk, this is Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, checking in at 700 feet, request permission to land.
Jim 'Wash Out' Pfaffenbach: Roger that, Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, you are cleared to land. Welcome to the Mediterranean!
Kent Gregory: Wash Out, is that you?
Jim 'Wash Out' Pfaffenbach: You bet, they put me in charge of radar! From now on, I'll be your eyes on the ground!
QuoteJim 'Wash Out' Pfaffenbach: Alpha Velveeta Knuckle Underwear, you are cleared for take-off. When you hit that nuclear weapons plant... drop a bomb for me!
Lt. Commander Block: Uh, Sphincter Mucus Niner Ringworm, roger!
Quote from: Eclipse on August 09, 2012, 02:39:16 PM
We need a subversive movement that teaches the wrong phonetic alphabet:
Lavatorial
Shouldn't A be Antidisestablishmentarianism?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 09, 2012, 03:01:38 PM
...some of our more tightly wound CULs!
I resemble that remark (just ask some people in my Wing). Although I have lightened up a bit. I think.
Back to the topic at hand, I'll be glad to see it rolled out. I know it'll help some of the units in my Group and Wing.
ICUT OP1 done. Half an hour because I actually watched the videos.
I see it's been added to my 101 card (ACut is still there as well), and appears in a new member report.
I is takin them raht nao.
ROFL. OP2, Vid 1, 6:40 mark, hilarious sound edit.
OK. I finished and passed everything. Now what? There's no place to enter or upload the ICUT certificate, nor does it show up on my 101. I'm guessing that my unit comm officer has to be shown that I know what the frack I'm doing and upload a Form 11 or something?
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 20, 2012, 04:46:11 PM
OK. I finished and passed everything. Now what? There's no place to enter or upload the ICUT certificate, nor does it show up on my 101. I'm guessing that my unit comm officer has to be shown that I know what the frack I'm doing and upload a Form 11 or something?
You won't need to upload a certificate, it automatically populates. Did you have ACUT done before today?
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 20, 2012, 04:50:40 PM
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 20, 2012, 04:46:11 PM
OK. I finished and passed everything. Now what? There's no place to enter or upload the ICUT certificate, nor does it show up on my 101. I'm guessing that my unit comm officer has to be shown that I know what the frack I'm doing and upload a Form 11 or something?
You won't need to upload a certificate, it automatically populates. Did you have ACUT done before today?
Never took ACUT. Also, for some weird reason, I keep getting an error message saying I'm not allowed to upload information for this member. Which is me.
Because you didn't have ACUT done prior to ICUT's release, you have to do two skills evaluations with your comm officer. He/She will be able to find the eval checklist on the CAP NATCOM website (https://comm.capnhq.gov (https://comm.capnhq.gov)).
Where are you trying to upload information?
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 20, 2012, 04:59:52 PM
Because you didn't have ACUT done prior to ICUT's release, you have to do two skills evaluations with your comm officer. He/She will be able to find the eval checklist on the CAP NATCOM website (https://comm.capnhq.gov (https://comm.capnhq.gov)).
Where are you trying to upload information?
I was looking for a place to upload my certificate before you told me. I guess my uploading permissions were taken away for some reason. Heck I don't know. I was trying to do it from the Single User and my 101 page.
It's an error message. There's nothing to upload to on that page so it defaults to that.
If you have the ACut already, the system tells you that you only need OP1.
Good Afternoon,
Good Afternoon,
I had A Cut prior to taking the ICUT 1 . So far the I Cut is not showing on my 101 card? Any ideas?
Thank you
Was your ACUT showing on your 101card already? If not, eServices doesn't know you had ACUT.
Mine showed up right away, however I have had some stuff need to wait until after 0200 passes ..
You finished the 20 question test, if you did all three, you should have taken three tests, two practice, and one final, for OP1.
Now that it seems open to everyone (?) I can say my story.
I took it the 7th of this month in beta in a classroom setting. It is definitely an improvement. Remember this: 'PAN, PAN". When you take ICUT, you'll know why I am saying this. I won't spoil the training for you ;)
Yes thank you I did, two quizzes and then the final test. I printed out the certificate also.
Quote from: a2capt on August 20, 2012, 05:55:19 PM
Mine showed up right away, however I have had some stuff need to wait until after 0200 passes ..
You finished the 20 question test, if you did all three, you should have taken three tests, two practice, and one final, for OP1.
No written tests for the other 2 modules, just skills demonstrations?
Correct.
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 20, 2012, 06:06:25 PM
Quote from: a2capt on August 20, 2012, 05:55:19 PM
Mine showed up right away, however I have had some stuff need to wait until after 0200 passes ..
You finished the 20 question test, if you did all three, you should have taken three tests, two practice, and one final, for OP1.
No written tests for the other 2 modules, just skills demonstrations?
Correct, though there are review quizzes after each video.
And where is it available? Please send the URL or a link. I have looked at the sign-on screen, the Ops section, the Communications section, and the Online Tests and did not see anything!
Congrats to all of you that passed already its modules...
Flyer333555
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
And where is it available? Please send the URL or a link. I have looked at the sign-on screen, the Ops section, the Communications section, and the Online Tests and did not see anything!
Congrats to all of you that passed already its modules...
Flyer333555
Learning Management System on the left side of the eServices main page.
All-
In the first screen it makes a short statement about having "ACUT credit." Where do I find whether I have this credit? Is it after I finish the OP1 module?
Flyer
ACut will be on your 101 card, as well as signed off in the single-person entry screen of OPS Quals.
The ICUT shows up immediately on your 101 card after the OP1 test if you've already completed the ACUT.
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:10:27 PM
All-
In the first screen it makes a short statement about having "ACUT credit." Where do I find whether I have this credit? Is it after I finish the OP1 module?
Flyer
ACUT would be listed on your CAPF 101 if you have ACUT credit.
I know that ACUT appears on the 101 card, I am asking that since the screen for this lesson references the "ACUT credit" I have to think it will at some point reference it. Or am I wrong and it does not state "you hasve ACUT credit?"
flyer
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:17:32 PM
I know that ACUT appears on the 101 card, I am asking that since the screen for this lesson references the "ACUT credit" I have to think it will at some point reference it. Or am I wrong and it does not state "you hasve ACUT credit?"
flyer
If you have ACUT listed on your 101, do the first section of ICUT, otherwise do all three. Simple as that.
Jeders, no need to be testy.
I have kept abreast of this for a long time.
I read the message that appears on the new module, and have a question. And I make the question, and you guys are not answering it.
Whereas another person on this board makes a similar little, stupid question, and it is answered. Without annoyance or testiness.
The answer would be either "no, the ICUT module will not tell you whether you have ACUT credit" or "YES, the ICUT module will show you have ACUT credit."
Flyer
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:34:50 PM
Jeders, no need to be testy.
I have kept abreast of this for a long time.
I read the message that appears on the new module, and have a question. And I make the question, and you guys are not answering it.
Whereas another person on this board makes a similar little, stupid question, and it is answered. Without annoyance or testiness.
The answer would be either "no, the ICUT module will not tell you whether you have ACUT credit" or "YES, the ICUT module will show you have ACUT credit."
Flyer
We have answered your question multiple times, you just don't want an answer outside of your narrow field of vision. If your 101 card says you have ACUT, you have ACUT. Take OP1 and move on. If your 101 doesn't show ACUT, take all 3 modules and move on.
I don't recall that it will "tell" you, but it knows that bit of info. When you sign in to the course, the choices available appear to be determined by that bit.
Quote
We have answered your question multiple times, you just don't want an answer outside of your narrow field of vision. If your 101 card says you have ACUT, you have ACUT. Take OP1 and move on. If your 101 doesn't show ACUT, take all 3 modules and move on.
No, you are not answering the question I am making.
You are answering a question you think I am making. I have ACUT credit, but I want to know whether it will show as part of the ICUT experience.
Flyer
Thank you, SARDRAGON!
At least someone understood the question and was nice enough to answer it!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Yeah. if you have ACUT, you get a checkmark on the course listing after only finishing OP1. Otherwise it's not done yet.
You'd remember having ACUT because sometime in the last several years you'd have spent a whole day doing that class, as opposed to BCUT only being a couple hours.
Lastly, the BCUT only being good for two years, means that those who have one now perhaps got a 3 year extension ;-) Since it says everyone has to renew within 3 years, BCUT has to take all of it, ACUT has to the regulatory part only.
I just entered about 40 BCUTs last week, figuring that would be the last time for that.
Although it's now a moot point, where do you get that BCUT was only good for two years? On the 101 card it has the same infinity symbol the FEMA courses and all other once-off training does.
Quote from: a2capt on August 20, 2012, 10:05:16 PMLastly, the BCUT only being good for two years, means that those who have one now perhaps got a 3 year extension. Since it says everyone has to renew within 3 years, BCUT has to take all of it, ACUT has to the regulatory part only.
I don't know that I'd read it that way.
My wing, for years, expired ACUTs 2 years after you left CAP and BCUTs after two years. We recently called that into question, and this was rescinded
(not that it matters anymore).
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 10:02:49 PM
Quote
We have answered your question multiple times, you just don't want an answer outside of your narrow field of vision. If your 101 card says you have ACUT, you have ACUT. Take OP1 and move on. If your 101 doesn't show ACUT, take all 3 modules and move on.
No, you are not answering the question I am making.
You are answering a question you think I am making. I have ACUT credit, but I want to know whether it will show as part of the ICUT experience.
Flyer
Your question, emphasis mine.
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:10:27 PM
All-
In the first screen it makes a short statement about having "ACUT credit." Where do I find whether I have this credit? Is it after I finish the OP1 module?
Flyer
That is what I answered.
It was in the regs previously, probably got revised due to the impeding ICUT introduction, but it used to paint an expiration date in eServices too, I have printouts showing it with one. It now shows "does not expire".
The premise was BCUT got you on the radio, ACUT got you the ability to own one, and get a call sign. Which I need to read the new regulation now and see what qualifies you to do that. (Get a call sign, besides a radio serial #). It's as if they've moved a lot more into the realm of CUL or MRO, and away from the communicator class, with regards to setting up a base station, antennas, and such, because ICUT to me seems just like BCUT.
Quote from: jeders on August 20, 2012, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 10:02:49 PM
Quote
We have answered your question multiple times, you just don't want an answer outside of your narrow field of vision. If your 101 card says you have ACUT, you have ACUT. Take OP1 and move on. If your 101 doesn't show ACUT, take all 3 modules and move on.
No, you are not answering the question I am making.
You are answering a question you think I am making. I have ACUT credit, but I want to know whether it will show as part of the ICUT experience.
Flyer
Your question, emphasis mine.
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 20, 2012, 09:10:27 PM
All-
In the first screen it makes a short statement about having "ACUT credit." Where do I find whether I have this credit? Is it after I finish the OP1 module?
Flyer
That is what I answered.
ACUT/BCUT no longer matter. If you CURRENTLY HAVE ACUT, you simply need to take the first module. If you DO NOT HAVE ACUT you need to take all 3 modules.
ACUT and BCUT currently show up on your 101 card. This is the place where you will see if you have credit for taking the class. If you pull up your 101 card in eservices and DO NOT SEE ACUT then you DO NOT HAVE ACUT.
ACUT WILL NOT SHOW UP ANY MORE AND DOES NOT MATTER. PERIOD.
Once you, as either ACUT or BCUT qualified, take the OP1 module, ACUT WILL BE REPLACED BY ICUT. NEITHER ACUT NOR BCUT WILL SHOW ON YOUR 101 CARD ANYMORE.
ONLY ICUT WILL SHOW UP.
*pant pant pant*
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 20, 2012, 10:29:44 PMONLY ICUT WILL SHOW UP.
ACUT still appears on the 101 after completing ICUT.
Yup, it still shows up. It's even still possible to enter them. They're still valid for the transition period. Though I would figure that if there were a bit more AI in the OpsQual, it would not accept an older comm class certificate from after the introductory date of ICUT.
We'll see..
Quote from: a2capt on August 20, 2012, 10:47:08 PM
Yup, it still shows up. It's even still possible to enter them. They're still valid for the transition period. Though I would figure that if there were a bit more AI in the OpsQual, it would not accept an older comm class certificate from after the introductory date of ICUT.
We'll see..
OK OK I was wrong.
ICUT...ACUT....BCUT.....CUT!!!!! Print It. That's lunch, folks. 8)
Does anyone that has done the new ICUT know if it can be presented to a group? We have a group of newer people that will be working on GTM3 soon and I'd like to be able to at least present the info as a class during the regular meeting night and then have them take the tests at home.
Quote from: Walkman on August 21, 2012, 01:40:54 AM
Does anyone that has done the new ICUT know if it can be presented to a group? We have a group of newer people that will be working on GTM3 soon and I'd like to be able to at least present the info as a class during the regular meeting night and then have them take the tests at home.
Since the only materials presented are instructional videos, I wouldn't see why you couldn't play them for a group - there's download links to allow you
to save them locally, but considering that they will eventually have to go online somewhere for the OP1 test, I doubt you'll get better response
increasing the time between "hear" and "click", especially for cadets.
IMHO I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to try and reinvent the wheel and take what is clearly designed to be a self-study and turn it back into a classroom situation.
They are going to have to demonstrate specific abilities practically anyway, so you can correct or re-mediate any misunderstandings then. I'd be willing to bet that there is going to be a contingent of Comm people who will try and leverage the second two parts back into mini-CUT classes just so they can stay in front of the class.
Thanks for the feedback. Good to know.
OP1 thoughts...
- Musical bumpers... Didn't see a copyright notice for the music, hopefully not a blatant Copyright / Intellectual Property violation.
Is that music Public Domain both the music itself and the performance?
(The icons in the new safety reporting system are also blatant ripoffs from various Operating Systems and Applications, as someone pointed out here once... is the trend to not request permission or give credit to the artists that create such things or get permission to utilize them? Not a good precedent to set.)
Apologies if this music is licensed, but the video still needs a Copyright notice besides ours, unless CAP hired an artist to perform a PD song.
Heh heh. Unlikely.
- "There may be times when a CAP aircraft may talk with a CAP unit on the ground using Air Band frequencies"... hmm.
That's interesting that got left in there, considering National dropped all the ground AM Aircraft band licenses.
Make up your mind. ;)
- Long discussion about "commercial infrastructure" being bad.
Yeah, I'll let you know how many repeaters are up when the commercial power goes out...
What percentage have generators with contracts to provide diesel on a priority basis? To the top of a mountain? In January?
Some, yes.
"A better chance our systems will keep working."
Sure... Sure they will... One can dream.
:)
- "FCC and NTIA rules prohibit CAP from using any FCC frequency to communicate within CAP."
And then proceeds to say FRS can be used for training but not missions.
Again, Make up your mind. ;)
In all, a good basic presentation.
General thoughts...
I sure hope they put something on the 101 card. the requirements for looking stuff up online in various different places is against the very thing this video warns about... reliance on commercial infrastructure (Internet) to check all of this stuff.
Quals should always all be available on ONE printout, the 101 card. Period.
Member prints it regularly when something changes, and carries it. Expiration date printed on it.
Internet access needs at a Mission, are not covered by our systems. "Train like you fight"? Okay... Next SAREX, turn off the Internet. ;)
No WiFi, no personal cellular modems, no use of on-site land-line based Internet access... Zero Internet.
For fun, make it a photo mission. Let us know how you fare. :)
Anyone going to remember how to launch an aircraft without WMIRS when there's a widespread lack of Internet access?
You going to be able to look up whether someone took a Safety class online without Internet access?
Now a separate Communications quals area of the database, too?!
Getting somewhat unmanageable/impossible without Internet access.
Definitely some wishful thinking in it, which is just a reflection of the same wishful thinking in 100-1. Not the video's fault. It matches the Reg.
* HF is wonderful (it's not).
* We have everything needed to do our mission (we don't).
* Our infrastructure is more hardened than commercial infrastructure (it's not).
*All interoperability will be pre-planned in advance (it won't be).
Things I would say:
* HF is a useful tool if you have the time and space to deal with antennas and operators with lots of time at a noisy radio who understand it deeply, including propagation.
* We have the resources to handle local tactical communication, but in times of Commercial infrastructure failure, we may or may not have all of our resources available. In times of widespread Internet access failure, we need to remember how to run a mission on paper and be prepared to fly digital products requested great distances away to customers or deliver them locally to customers without delay or remote vetting. Decentralization happens during Internet outages due to a lack of adequate non-commercial Internet infrastructure.
* Interoperability is a pain, and will continue to be a pain for everyone who ever deals with it, for as long as we all shall live. Amen. Get the job done. :-)
Hard to put that level of clarity and truth into an intro course. Understandably, so.
No complaints about any of the above, just pointing out the obvious elephants standing in the room. No particular great solutions in mind for much of the above, either.
Just don't want us "believing our own propaganda" too much.
Honest, frank, evaluation of real mission readiness has to include knowing when we're lying to ourselves. Sometimes people see that stuff and believe it 100% and it surprises them later on...
:)
Have y'all seen that huge letter and corrections to 100-1 already published? Holy cow. Big.
(If you think the above is too much nit-picking, go read that thing. Wow.)
Honestly, in all my years as a CAP communicator, this isn't the biggest waste of time ever. Not by a long shot.
It was packaged pretty well, but IMHO things could have been moved around a bit, like basics first and THEN get to the HF wave-propagation stuff later towards the end. Gotta crawl before you can run and all that.
I'm wondering how the practical stuff is going to work out, as in what do we have to demonstrate to the mentors...it's all the same stuff we had in BCUT and in our comm classes and such. Press, pause, talk, release. As I am fond of saying...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...I have a tendency to teach my cadets who participate in ground team training the right way the first time on the radio, usually facing each other and making them go through the motions before ever handling a microphone. It gets them over their mike shyness pretty quick. Once they figure out that they can actually talk on the radio just like they're talking to a friend (only with a bigger audience) it gets easier.
I did find the bits about how to actually use the fargin' EFJ radios helpful. This many years after we got them I still relied on cadets to show me how to figure out how to change the channels. Now I know.
Anyone catch the PAN PAN dubover? It made me jump just because I wasn't expecting it!
I wonder if he didn't say it like frying pan, before it was edited to be like bread in Spanish, because the lip movements fit the words otherwise.
Ok-
Finally got it done!
At first, about 5:00 PM, it was jerky. Could not understand it. But my fault, I was using a Tablet at a popular eating establishment with an M as identifier...
Tried downloading it, but had no MP player. Then tried WinAmp. It turned out to be an audio PLAYER but no video...
So I tried again at 11:00 PM. Better!
So passed it, and checked my 101 not 2 minutes later, and it shows...
:P
I do not know, but I think I prefer the previous, face-to-face format of A-CUT and B-CUT...
:-[
Flyer
I'd agree to some extent that topics like this, especially for new users and cadets, are probably done at least as well, if not better, in-face, if only
for the option of asking a question, however by far the vast majority of new users just need an orientation in which button to press and how to speak
clearly on a simplex channel, and the reality was that many CUT trainers were spending as much time on the physics of radio waves as they were on
being an ES operator.
And the lack of classes has been a constant pinch point for a lot of members, this will at least fix that issue. I know of more than a few, especially cadets, who had their ES-spirit broken because they spent time and money on GTM training and never got the badge because of the lack of ROA classes.
Wings will always be allowed and even encourage to hold more advanced training for those so inclined.
Now to complete the hands on part.
I agree with Eclipse that this will ease a problem I saw in my area, which he also describes.
Not enough Comms basic classes.
Flyer
[Edited to take out duplication]
Fortunately, Comm classes have never been an issue in my area. I've been teaching them for almost 10 years. Available almost any time.
Who's qualified locally to do the hands-on evals? Those could become the new pinch points.
That's covered in the new 100-1.
There is a plan for a classroom program for ICUT. It hasn't been released yet, but should be soon. I won't try to define "soon".
I did the beta in classroom. It definitely helped. A good 3 hour meeting could get everyone trained and signed off on ICUT.
Hi-
I just ran the "Reports" feature on the Ops Qual module selecting "ICS ICUT Completion" report.
The report that was printed read "ACUT completion, 0 members have completed, 0 members have not completed." It said so twice.
Comments?
Apparently it does not credit those who have taken only the OP1 module of ICUT. On my unit, two have taken ICUT that way. The commander and me.
I guess it did read properly that two members did an attempt, but did not know what to post.
Flyer
There's a new report specific to the ICUT that shows what you're referring to, I don't see a report called "ICS Completion", nor one for the ACUT.
The ICUT report shows, by unit and then cumulative for the wing (if you have rights), those who have completed it, and those who have started it but not completed it (for whatever reason).
It is automatic and requires nothing be posted by the member.
Interesting, I just ran the ICUT completion report (I assume ICS completion was a typo) and it says one person in my squadron has completed ICUT, me. It shows, under the member listed, the ICUT status, when the online test was completed, and under T1 and OP2 it lists ACUT credit.
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 21, 2012, 01:50:26 PM
It said so twice.
Apparently one time is for the unit you're looking at and the other time is for the whole report. If you were looking at multiple units at once, like you would from the group or wing level, it shows the totals for each unit you look at as well as the total for the entire report.
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 21, 2012, 01:50:26 PM
Hi-
I just ran the "Reports" feature on the Ops Qual module selecting "ICS ICUT Completion" report.
The report that was printed read "ACUT completion, 0 members have completed, 0 members have not completed." It said so twice.
Comments?
Apparently it does not credit those who have taken only the OP1 module of ICUT. On my unit, two have taken ICUT that way. The commander and me.
I guess it did read properly that two members did an attempt, but did not know what to post.
Flyer
I had the same problem. I changed the date range to start 19 Aug 2012 and it worked.
Quote from: denverpilot on August 21, 2012, 02:22:40 AM
(The icons in the new safety reporting system are also blatant ripoffs from various Operating Systems and Applications, as someone pointed out here once... is the trend to not request permission or give credit to the artists that create such things or get permission to utilize them? Not a good precedent to set.)
Sorry for the threadjack, but I wanted to comment on this.
While the safety system icons are similar to some operating systems, you can go online and download untold numbers of these icons that are free to use by anyone. I know this because I've done exactly that while doing some graphic design. I keep a folder of stock graphics that has several different versions of these icons just so I don't use the same ones every time I need something similar.
My guess is someone Googled "icons" or "system icons" or "3D icons" and found a nice set they liked and threw them into the radio button design.
Except they used copyright ones.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 21, 2012, 09:20:07 PM
Except they used copyright ones.
If you know that is a
fact, contact the national legal officer and discuss.
Ok.
Reported my results with the ICUT reports to Nat HQ Communications. Ran the ICUT report again. The same way. The same results. Then I followed BTE's suggestion, that is, use the start date 19 Aug, and this time worked. A very complete and nice report. With the modules completed and credited. And it included a member that started after we did but had not completed other modules.
Take care,
Luis Ramos
Quote from: flyer333555 on August 21, 2012, 09:41:42 PM
Ok.
Reported my results with the ICUT reports to Nat HQ Communications. Ran the ICUT report again. The same way. The same results. Then I followed BTE's suggestion, that is, use the start date 19 Aug, and this time worked. A very complete and nice report. With the modules completed and credited. And it included a member that started after we did but had not completed other modules.
Take care,
Luis Ramos
How did you handle the date fields initially, filled or blank? I left them blank when I ran it and the report came out correctly.
Jeders,
I thought those date fields had to be filled before running the report, so I filled them. 20 Aug for the start and 21 Aug for the end.
Now after I read your post, I left them blank. Same results as you stated. The nice report, complete as if the date fields had been filled.
Flyer
Quote from: jeders on August 21, 2012, 09:53:26 PM
How did you handle the date fields initially, filled or blank? I left them blank when I ran it and the report came out correctly.
Ditto - no dates = full report.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2012, 09:38:00 PM
If you know that is a fact, contact the national legal officer and discuss.
Or just switch them to something not even close, or that we have a published license to utilize, just to make sure we're following our own standards of ethical behavior.
We don't need a lawyer to tell us it's questionable, when we can all see it.
If someone released new letterhead with something that resembled say, the McDonald's or Boeing logos on it, would we need "proof" it was wrong, and need to contact the National Legal staff?
No.
Just change it. Honest mistake, no harm, no foul. Lesson learned about Intellectual Property of artwork in digital systems.
Folks that work on software typically are more educated about this than others, which is what made it so surprising when I saw it. I can't think of a pro software developer in my professional life who wouldn't have cringed at the icons.
It's more important as an ethics/morals issue than a legal one. Sure the legal folks may say it's okay, but we all know when we stole someone else's work and called it our own.
Here is just one...
(http://imgur.com/pMCGn)
ta-da (http://imgur.com/pMCGn)
Quote from: denverpilot on August 22, 2012, 12:14:48 AMSure the legal folks may say it's okay...
No, if the legal folks say it's "OK", it's "OK". That's how this works, but regardless, making public accusations about the ethics of the leadership
is not a good idea, nor is it even "ethical", unless you know for a fact that something illegal was done.
There's also the common-sense issue of picking your battles, something sorely lost on many cadets these days.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 22, 2012, 01:28:34 AM
No, if the legal folks say it's "OK", it's "OK".
Not unless that "legal folk" happens to be wearing a robe in the midst of a dispute. Otherwise, other "legal folks" offer opinions.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 22, 2012, 01:28:34 AM
No, if the legal folks say it's "OK", it's "OK". That's how this works, but regardless, making public accusations about the ethics of the leadership
is not a good idea, nor is it even "ethical", unless you know for a fact that something illegal was done.
There's also the common-sense issue of picking your battles, something sorely lost on many cadets these days.
Not sure who you think is a Cadet, but if that was supposed to be thinly veiled intimidation, I don't play. I also hope no Cadet ever backs down on the subject of the possible theft of other's hard work either.
I'm an IT Pro and have been for coming up on 21 years. I'm as qualified as anyone to recognize and/or suspect stolen icons and digital works when I see them. My qualified professional opinion is that those icons are direct from various computer operating systems.
Some Apple, some Microsoft, some appear to be AOL/TimeWarner icons, as I recall. And none of those companies license them for other's use. (I'm not exactly sitting here with the screen open, looking at them again to confirm.)
I made no claims about leadership other than that they likely have made a mistake that needs to be corrected. Certainly no claim about their ethics.
I have no battle. The developer did it, it's ostensibly been reviewed. A comment on a public non-CAP discussion website where one lone guy says the equivalent of, "You know, those icons look ripped off to me," isn't a treatise on anyone's ethics.
Saying there are lawyers who'd not know that it's a problem, also isn't an attack on them. I've educated my employers' Marketing and Legal staff on similar problems in the past. ("Hey guys, you know... Just because we use Cisco hardware in our equipment racks doesn't mean we get to put their logo on our website without permission...")
Bottom line... my signature isn't on it. And I guarantee it wouldn't get my signature on a Software Change Control Board or Committee, many of which I've sat on and had to sign the release documents in organizations with far more at stake -- than CAP has with an internal website.
But just for the sake of explaining how simple it is... if I were really out to claim there was a true ethics violation, I'd just download them and bitmap compare them down to the 32-bit color code of each pixel and prove it. If the colors and shapes match, pixel for pixel, they're stolen.
It's about ten minutes worth of work to find out.
Note, I haven't.
If I were out to make real trouble, I'd just send a screenshot to the companies who's works were infringed. Their lawyers would fight the battle for me. They'd have a cease-and-desist on someone's desk in a half an hour.
Note, I haven't.
So your comment about "choosing battles" is lost on me.
The furthest I took it, was to post it as a comment here. You're of the opinion it's an attack of epic proportions.
I just pointed out that it looks like stolen IP. I didn't send it up any official chain of command. It's a comment on CAPTalk, for goodness sakes, not a subpoena for evidence.
If I meant an attack, the battle would already be over and done with, decisively.
I would tend to say it's more likely to be attributable to a mistake, more than willful ignorance of the law. And I'll stand by my comment that Legal may have just plain missed it, too.
Quote from: denverpilot on August 23, 2012, 01:26:55 AM
Not sure who you think is a Cadet...
Extreme is a cadet, and one who has issues with knowing which battles to pick. The reply was to your comment but directed primarily at him.
However either of you would get more redress about this by sending a message to NHQ. An honest mistake would then be corrected, however
you can't use words like "stolen" in regards to IP, and then pretend that's not an indictment of the ethics of the person doing the "stealing".
Assumption of an honest mistake would not involve the word "stolen".
Anyway, It's not like this is
important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2012, 01:51:39 AMAnyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
When did we start talking about railroads?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2012, 01:51:39 AM
Quote from: denverpilot on August 23, 2012, 01:26:55 AM
Not sure who you think is a Cadet...
Extreme is a cadet, and one who has issues with knowing which battles to pick. The reply was to your comment but directed primarily at him.
However either of you would get more redress about this by sending a message to NHQ. An honest mistake would then be corrected, however
you can't use words like "stolen" in regards to IP, and then pretend that's not an indictment of the ethics of the person doing the "stealing".
Assumption of an honest mistake would not involve the word "stolen".
Anyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
Property can be stolen, yes? So why isn't IP the same. Is piracy not stealing IP?
Sure, it isn't important. Until you get caught and get sued...
Quote from: JeffDG on August 23, 2012, 02:02:56 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2012, 01:51:39 AMAnyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
When did we start talking about railroads?
Right after the comment about people not wearing enough hats...the meeting had to move on to the next agenda item.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2012, 02:09:39 AM
Anyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
Property can be stolen, yes? So why isn't IP the same. Is piracy not stealing IP?
Congratulations on missing the point.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2012, 02:10:31 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2012, 02:09:39 AM
Anyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
Property can be stolen, yes? So why isn't IP the same. Is piracy not stealing IP?
Congratulations on missing the point.
Thank you, sir.
Go take over some other threads with content a little closer to what you're sniveling about.
Ok, just finished writing up an outline summary of ICUT and sent it up to my Wing DC for review and Wing publication to help our members get acquainted with it. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.
Anyway, I saw a couple of posts asking who is qualified to teach ICUT, and what does the practical portion consist of?
Check 100-1 for the definition of qualified instructors. In short, if you have completed ICUT, are SET qualified, and are on Communications staff at any level, i.e. unit and up, you can serve as an instructor. For the first 6 months, i.e. until Feb 20, 2013, if there are no available instructors under this definition available, if you have a Senior rating in Communications and are ICUT and SET qualified then you can also serve as an instructor. I guess this is to cover the squadrons with the lazy comm staff but the active comms specialty track member who is not otherwise on comms staff to serve as an instructor.
Classroom curriculum is not defined at this point, however when it is, instructors will be ICUT and SET current members who are on staff at any level, same as the evaluators for the online version. Is it feasible now to still proceed with classroom instruction? Until the classroom instructor guide comes down from National, about the only way I could think of it is to have the videos shown on a powerpoint, then have each student take turns logging onto eServices and taking the quizzes. Awkward, but doable.
As far as what does the hands-on training consist of, aka, "Help I'm an instructor, what do I go over?!", look under the publications on the NTC website, you'll find the information there on what to test the students on.
So, do we know both Beta wings?
Quote from: AngelWings on August 23, 2012, 02:51:30 AM
So, do we know both Beta wings?
The eservices release notice stated MAWG and TXWG
Quote from: Brad on August 23, 2012, 02:50:50 AM
Ok, just finished writing up an outline summary of ICUT and sent it up to my Wing DC for review and Wing publication to help our members get acquainted with it. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.
Anyway, I saw a couple of posts asking who is qualified to teach ICUT, and what does the practical portion consist of?
Check 100-1 for the definition of qualified instructors. In short, if you have completed ICUT, are SET qualified, and are on Communications staff at any level, i.e. unit and up, you can serve as an instructor. For the first 6 months, i.e. until Feb 20, 2013, if there are no available instructors under this definition available, if you have a Senior rating in Communications and are ICUT and SET qualified then you can also serve as an instructor. I guess this is to cover the squadrons with the lazy comm staff but the active comms specialty track member who is not otherwise on comms staff to serve as an instructor.
Classroom curriculum is not defined at this point, however when it is, instructors will be ICUT and SET current members who are on staff at any level, same as the evaluators for the online version. Is it feasible now to still proceed with classroom instruction? Until the classroom instructor guide comes down from National, about the only way I could think of it is to have the videos shown on a powerpoint, then have each student take turns logging onto eServices and taking the quizzes. Awkward, but doable.
As far as what does the hands-on training consist of, aka, "Help I'm an instructor, what do I go over?!", look under the publications on the NTC website, you'll find the information there on what to test the students on.
There is not an "instructor". The term is skills evaluator. The reason I want to make this distinction is that all too many times people make things harder than they need to be. The whole reason they went to the online model was to standardize the material and bring the certification to the lowest level possible. By creating an "instructor" we will once again fall into the trap of the king and his kingdom.
The skills evaluator is a mentor and the final evaluator. He/She can answer questions and help but the instruction is the ICUT module.
+1.
I can't really see why anyone would want or need to do this in-face beyond the required evaluations, that misses the point of doing it online.
Unlike SLC, etc, which are designed to be peer-sharing experiences, this is exactly the opposite. You want everyone getting the information in the same way without embellishment.
or adding ridiculous hoops like having ICUT or BCUT or ACUT expire in 2 years >:D >:D >:D
TX and MA Wings were the Beta testers of ICUT.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 23, 2012, 02:09:39 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2012, 01:51:39 AM
Quote from: denverpilot on August 23, 2012, 01:26:55 AM
Not sure who you think is a Cadet...
Extreme is a cadet, and one who has issues with knowing which battles to pick. The reply was to your comment but directed primarily at him.
However either of you would get more redress about this by sending a message to NHQ. An honest mistake would then be corrected, however
you can't use words like "stolen" in regards to IP, and then pretend that's not an indictment of the ethics of the person doing the "stealing".
Assumption of an honest mistake would not involve the word "stolen".
Anyway, It's not like this is important like the issue of CN vs. CD.
Property can be stolen, yes? So why isn't IP the same. Is piracy not stealing IP?
Sure, it isn't important. Until you get caught and get sued...
Sorry, I deal with IP every day, copyright in particular.
Theft, legally speaking, is the criminalization of the tort of "conversion". Conversion is when you take the property of another for your use without lawful authority. There are two things required for conversion: 1) You must take the property for your use, and 2) The lawful owner must be deprived use of the property.
The second element does not occur in copyright violation cases. Yes, you are appropriating property to your own use without lawful authority, but such appropriation does not prevent the lawful owner of the property from continuing to use same.
All of that said, for those interested, the laws on copyright infringement are rather severe. For civil infringement, the copyright holder can sue you for infringement, and claim statutory damages (without any need to prove actual damages) of up to $150,000 per infringement. Not only that, copyright infringement occurs when the copyright material is copied, for example, when an image is copied from a server to your local computer. So, from a hyper-technical reading of the law, every time someone hits the infringing image is a separate and distinct infringement of the copyright, subject to a separate and distinct award of statutory damages.
Alternatively, if there is intent or malice involved, the matter can be pursued criminally. In which case, I know there is potential jail time involved, but the damages jump for $250k per infringement.
The penalty for thread piracy should be having your keyboard broken in half. ;)
are tait radios being phased out, or already prohibited? i saw no instruction presented in the icut class on this radio.
bill
Taits have been on the phase out list for 6 some years. We got grief from NHQ for showing up in MS with them in 2005.
There are still a few around, and if they work, they get used. If, however, they break, it's straight back to NTC for disposal.
Revised my ICUT outline to replace "instructor" with "mentor/evaluator" after reading the replies here and re-reading 100-1 chapter 5. Added a bit at the end explaining the change in terms.
So, I could have missed it in the last 7 pages, but I didn't see it in the announcement or the reg. What's the drop-dead date on ACUT/BCUT (when is ICUT mandatory to operate radios)? That might be good information to know.
Another interesting point is that 100-1 says communication staff members at any level may evaluate the hands-on portions of ICUT. Technically speaking, anyone the commander lists as a comm officer is a communication staff member, so while it helps with the bottleneck problem ("Evaluators must have double-secret approval from NHQ to evaluate") it creates the potential to lower the performance standard of ICUT candidates.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 27, 2012, 10:55:03 AM
So, I could have missed it in the last 7 pages, but I didn't see it in the announcement or the reg. What's the drop-dead date on ACUT/BCUT (when is ICUT mandatory to operate radios)? That might be good information to know.
Three years from the go live date on ICUT.
QuoteAnother interesting point is that 100-1 says communication staff members at any level may evaluate the hands-on portions of ICUT. Technically speaking, anyone the commander lists as a comm officer is a communication staff member, so while it helps with the bottleneck problem ("Evaluators must have double-secret approval from NHQ to evaluate") it creates the potential to lower the performance standard of ICUT candidates.
Have you seen the actual evaluation form? With everything else online and a simple hands on 5 minute eval, I don't think we'll be able to degrade training enough for that to be an issue.
So here's a problem I've encountered.
Every time someone in my squadron takes ICUT, it updates onto all their SQTRs. The problem is that it kicks all of their expired ratings into my approvals box. I don't know if I should approve them to push through ICUT, or deny them because it would falsely approve an expired rating. Submitting a trouble ticket, but has anyone else had this problem?
I've not seen that happen here. Mine has a bit of expired ratings on it, and I didn't get asked by the CC about anything either. (as I'd not see my own for approval)
Have not seen that.
I personally had that happen (ICUT kicking through my expired quals) and I can say that you can deny the expired quals and ICUT will still show up on the 101
Quote from: Dracosbane on August 28, 2012, 05:48:36 AM
I personally had that happen (ICUT kicking through my expired quals) and I can say that you can deny the expired quals and ICUT will still show up on the 101
Good to know. I'm still waiting for the IT team to get back to me. At least they know about it now, if they didn't before.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 28, 2012, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: Dracosbane on August 28, 2012, 05:48:36 AM
I personally had that happen (ICUT kicking through my expired quals) and I can say that you can deny the expired quals and ICUT will still show up on the 101
Good to know. I'm still waiting for the IT team to get back to me. At least they know about it now, if they didn't before.
I'm not sure if this is the same thing but e-services has a message that they are working on some issue, but not what issue.
There was something on the RSS about an issue with the reporting function, maybe it's related.
That's Member Reports being broken. It was last Tuesday, and then worked later in the afternoon, but sometime yesterday it quit again. I reported it, probably not the only one, but.. at least now it's noted.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 28, 2012, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: Dracosbane on August 28, 2012, 05:48:36 AM
I personally had that happen (ICUT kicking through my expired quals) and I can say that you can deny the expired quals and ICUT will still show up on the 101
Good to know. I'm still waiting for the IT team to get back to me. At least they know about it now, if they didn't before.
Got a message back from the IT team. I've been told that the issue has been resolved.