the importance of Chaplains

[dogboy]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

[Spike]

I don't think anyone in CAP will say Chaplains are not important. 

[Eclipse]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

Cite, please.  The only study I can find conflicts with that statement and indicates few who were involved actually consulted clergy.  http://www.scribd.com/doc/14004050/911-Mental-Health-in-the-Wake-of-Terrorist-Attackspdf

I seriously doubt that 90% of the US population even has a church, let alone consults with a member of clergy for emotional issues.

Further, I'm not sure how this is relevant to CAP, as few, if anyone, I know would consider their unit Chaplain as "clergy" for counseling of emotional distress - certainly not 90% by a long shot.

Most of our members are in a CAP uniform maybe...maybe, 4 hours a week and in an active month
1 or 2 weeks contiguous for an activity like an encampment or a long-duration mission.  Certainly not enough time to require "counseling", or "feeding of the spirit" which can't be postponed until they get home.

We don't do anything akin to a combat soldier who is locked into a situation where they cannot leave and therefore needs to have his spiritual needs fulfilled in the foxhole.

If I am have an emotional or spiritual need I'm going to go to my personal clergy when I get home.  If I'm not comfortable doing that, how am I going to be comfortable spilling my guts to someone I barely know that I see twice a month and likely has no common frame of reference for the conversation?  Likewise, frankly, with CISM.

[dogboy]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

Cite, please. 

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/345/20/1507

I  don't think people have to have a church to consult clergy, especially in times of trauma.

[Spike]

^ Wow....really?  You are citing something from NOVEMBER 2001.

If you can find something that was published this year or even in 2008, I would be more interested in this subject.

I am not stating that clergy are not important, but this is 2009, NOT 1709.  The church does not have an influence in that many lives in the United States, like it did 300 years ago.  Back then, the Church was the only place a person could seek "relief" or consultation.  Today we have thousands of different places an individual can seek help from.

I would even go as far as saying chaplains and clergy are far less contributing to a person today as they have been in the past.

Religion is a personal issue.  You can use it, or leave it.   

[jimmydeanno]

^ Wow....really?  You are citing something from NOVEMBER 2001.

If you can find something that was published this year or even in 2008, I would be more interested in this subject.

I am not stating that clergy are not important, but this is 2009, NOT 1709.  The church does not have an influence in that many lives in the United States, like it did 300 years ago.  Back then, the Church was the only place a person could seek "relief" or consultation.  Today we have thousands of different places an individual can seek help from.

I would even go as far as saying chaplains and clergy are far less contributing to a person today as they have been in the past.

Religion is a personal issue.  You can use it, or leave it.   

Sorry there hasn't been an event since 9/11 that made people seek out help en masse. 

But the abstract is perfectly credible.  Last I checked the NEJM wasn't some News of the Force publication.  The hundred some odd PhDs that use it in their own research didn't seem to dismiss it, and it's relevance is still valid considering that it is talking about the 9/11 event, a mere few months after it.

Eclipse was looking for a cite for the stat posted, here it is.

[Eclipse]

From the abstract:

"Results Forty-four percent of the adults reported one or more substantial symptoms of stress; 90 percent had one or more symptoms to at least some degree. Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent). Eighty-four percent of parents reported that they or other adults in the household had talked to their children about the attacks for an hour or more; 34 percent restricted their children's television viewing. Thirty-five percent of children had one or more stress symptoms, and 47 percent were worried about their own safety or the safety of loved ones."

It does not say "turned to support from clergy" it says "turning to religion" - whatever that means.  IMHO that's a world of difference, and could mean anything from a silent prayer to their own personal salvation. As a point of fact, the word "clergy" does not appear in the article.

It also says 98% of respondents talked to "others", and 90% had some kind of stress.  Yeah, no kidding.

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

[IceNine]

What happened to the rule that.

Religion, Politics, and Racial issues are hot topics not to be discussed in an uncontrolled setting.

This thread it doomed for disaster, and I'm sure the folks here will make short work of it.

[lordmonar]

What was the population surveyed?
Because a 2007 survely showed that only about 84% of the population stated that they had any religion.

[Eclipse]

What was the population surveyed?
Because a 2007 survely showed that only about 84% of the population stated that they had any religion.

560 people randomly called 4-5 days after the attacks.

[DC]

Yeah, in a country of ~ 300,000,000 people 560 should definitely be able to show what the other 299,999,440 of us are thinking and doing.

[AirDX]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

No it doesn't.  It says that people coped by various mechanisms, including "turning to religion (90 percent)".  "Turning to religion" is far different from seeking support from clergy.  Turning to religion can be as simple as reading a few Bible verses, or saying quick a prayer, or just a few miniutes of meditation.  You are assuming too much.

Edit: Someone already beat me to this up topic.

[dogboy]

From the abstract:

"Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent).

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

Is it too much to ask that those who comment upon a source cited actually read the citation rather than just the abstract?

Frankly, I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't understand the difference between the New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the leading medical journal in the country and USA Today.

However, I stand corrected regarding the finding of the study. The actual question was have you turned to prayer, region or spiritual feelings. I apologize for confusing this with "sought support" for clergy.

The mix-up occurred because based upon this use of religion for support, the Harvard Medical School Continuing Education class I took advised the PCP to suggest the patient speak with clergy.

[Eclipse]

From the abstract:

"Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent).

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

Is it too much to ask that those who comment upon a source cited actually read the citation rather than just the abstract?

Frankly, I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't understand the difference between the New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the leading medical journal in the country and USA Today.

Wow - that went right over your head.

I actually did read the article, which is the point, you cite use some nonsense random poll taken 5 days after one of the most horrific events in recent history as support for how "important" CAP chaplains are.

Except not once does it say anything about clergy, the sampling is too small to mean anything, and the stats don't even make sense when compared to larger studies and common knowledge about religion in the US.

So, what, exactly was the point of the thread to start with?

[DogCollar]

The original subject was "the importance of Chaplains."  The originator did not limit the discussion to CAP Chaplaincy as he sited an oft quoted study from the NEJM.

I would suggest that the focus be narrowed to a discussion of CAP Chaplaincy and how it effects (or doesn't) the missions of the organization.  However, if you want to continue with a free wheeling, emotion laden discussion of Americans turning to religious customs in times of stress...go ahead.  I think that would't be terribly productive, however.

[RiverAux]

Chaplains are going to be helpful to some CAP members while others won't have any interest in using their services. 

Not sure anyone is going to be able to come to a more specific conclusion than that.

[EMT-83]

I can't speculate on what everyone else in the country did, but I spent the evening of September 11, 2001 in church with my family. That was a personal decision, and not at all related to CAP.

Related to CAP, I am aware of several members of our squadron who have sought counseling from our chaplain. We're fortunate to have a pastor that cadets and seniors can relate to, and despite having limited contact with him on a monthly basis, members turned to him when they needed some help.

Does this "effect the missions of the organization" in any way? I don't know.

[lordmonar]

As an athiest I have no need for Chaplains.........


But......I know that 80%+/- of the nation are religious in some way and they do find comfort in their service.

[DC]

I'm agnostic personally, but I have found that when you just need someone to talk to there are some chaplains that can be a big help. I have met a few that respected my personal views, even if they didn't agree with them, and helped me out anyway. Those gentlemen have my utmost respect.

Because of those few I will never question the importance of the chaplain, whether to provide religious support to the faithful, or simply moral support to those of other beliefs. However, when they start preaching under the assumption that everyone present shares their views, or outright tells me I'm wrong, I draw the line.

[AirDX]

I'll weigh in as a lapsed libertarian Buddhist.

Chaplains are great.  I'm not religious in the least, but having someone on scene to look out for the mental needs of both responders and victims is, as we say in the military, a force multiplier.

We had a chaplain on the department when I was a fireman in Virginia - an awesome dude, he had a department vehicle with strobes and a siren, he was always there at a major incident, and anything critical - deaths, anything involving severe injury to a child, etc. 

Again, I'm not religious, but having someone clap you on the shoulder, offer to talk if you wanted to, and hand you a cup of coffee, just kept you in the fight.  That force multiplier thing.

Chaplains have a huge place in CAP if they are willing to serve.

[Short Field]

A good Chaplain is a critical member of any ES mission that moves beyond a drive thorugh the hangers looking for a ELT.   

Our Chaplain is normally the only person who is checking to see how we are doing and holding up during the search.  This goes beyond just how we are doing mentally to include trying to look out for out creature comforts.  On the last major search, it was the Chaplain that took out the trash, made sure we had coffee for the coffee pot, paper towels, and toliet paper in the bathroom.  He also made it a point to have a few words with each person there just to check their sanity level.    I have found the Chaplain is also the best primary contact we can have with the searchees family during a search.   

My pastor takes care of my religous needs.  But I would hate to loose the personal support our CAP Chaplain brings to our missions.

[Gunner C]

I was a huge supporter of the CAP chaplaincy until the MER chaplain berated a friend of mine for being a Latter-day Saint, telling the crowd how horrible they are, that they aren't people worthy of salvation, that they only help their own members, and they believe in weird things (the list he gave was totally incorrect - read lies).  He let him know that Mormons didn't have the support of the chaplaincy and never would (strange, since a former national chaplain was LDS).  He was publicly humiliated by that bigot.

I'll never support the chaplains again.  I can't remember the last time I saw such institutional bigotry.  If you're a Mormon, a Catholic, or a Jew, (not to mention Buddhists, Muslims, or anything else) they really don't have much use for you.

[Major Lord]

Its great to have a Chaplain to run cover for you while you are running missions. The family members swarm them so that we field people can make our exit without being followed by family, media, etc. Even better when they show up in brass-heavy blue uniforms, so people think they are official spokesman!  There was a an article in a SAR magazine a few years back ( I wish I had kept it, maybe someone out there has it) It was titled "How to tell if you have a Redneck SAR team" or something along those lines.  The one I remember best was that you know you have a redneck SAR team if your chaplain talks to survivors of a multi-injury critical incident about Hell! I have not seen that in CAP.

Major Lord

[Short Field]

If a Chaplain can't provide support to all the members of CAP, they really should find another place to spend their time.  I got a briefing on what Chaplains do at a national event.  It only covered the importance of church services and not one single word was mentioned about other support.  The individual was not a CAP Chaplain as he did not meet the requirements.

Becoming a CAP Chaplain or a Moral Leadership Officer should not equate to proselytizing  a new group of people.  Thankfully I have never seen this take place.

I will call out Chaplain Lt Col Tom Miller by name as a shining example for other Chaplains to emulate.  He is also a MP, IC3, and Level V in professional development.   PCR is lucky to have him in the region.

[DogCollar]

I was a huge supporter of the CAP chaplaincy until the MER chaplain berated a friend of mine for being a Latter-day Saint, telling the crowd how horrible they are, that they aren't people worthy of salvation, that they only help their own members, and they believe in weird things (the list he gave was totally incorrect - read lies).  He let him know that Mormons didn't have the support of the chaplaincy and never would (strange, since a former national chaplain was LDS).  He was publicly humiliated by that bigot.

I'll never support the chaplains again.  I can't remember the last time I saw such institutional bigotry.  If you're a Mormon, a Catholic, or a Jew, (not to mention Buddhists, Muslims, or anything else) they really don't have much use for you.

I know that we have conversed about this before.  The chaplain you speak of was extrordinarily out of line and did not reflect CAP Chaplain Corps policy.  He should have been 2b'd from the Chaplain Corps and from CAP.  As you report the incident it is a gross violation of ethics and the Chaplains' Code of Conduct.

No doubt there are those chaplains that shouldn't be serving.  However, not all chaplains behave as badly as this individual did.  I take pluralism seriously.  I would never denigrate another members faith or lack of faith.  That is completely against what I believe with every fiber of my being.  The mission of the Chaplains Corps is one of support for the members formed in teams and as individuals.  Every Chaplain must be reminded that they are primarily called to be servants to all.  End of sermon.

[billford1]

I was a TAC Officer at a CAP Encampment in SC in 2003. I know that some of my Senior Member colleagues didn't place much value in the Chaplain Program for CAP or the Military. I spent time with the Chaplain who was a VietNam Veteran who had served over 20 years in the US Army and had a previous assignment with the 101st AirBorne Div. Having been a Cadet in a Military Academy for 2 and 1/2 years I have insight into Cadet life. Having been an Army Reservist in the past I'm familiar with how stressful Military Life can be. What I saw in the 2003 Summer Encampment was not surprising as many young Cadets were experiencing personal problems that they couldn't cope with on their own. What I witnessed was that the Chaplain made a selfless contribution by being available to spend time with troubled Cadets and listen to them. Almost all of those he met with were helped by the time they spent with their Chaplain. They were able to adapt to the situation they were in and complete the Encampment successfully. If you think that Chaplains are of no worth well that's a reflection of where you are right now in your Journey in this Life. The Air Force Leadership still sees value in the role of Chaplains. I would just accept that Chaplains have a role to play in the USAF and CAP.

[AirDX]

There may however be an unseen outcome that could result in electric shock

Then you'd REALLY need a chaplain. 

[billford1]

There may however be an unseen outcome that could result in electric shock

Then you'd REALLY need a chaplain. 

Sorry for the gaff. I pasted something in from another forum by accident. If I could talk to a Chaplain right now I would ask him to Pray for me as I'm spending way more time than usual having fun on CAP Talk while out on sick leave.

[Chappie]

If a Chaplain can't provide support to all the members of CAP, they really should find another place to spend their time.  I got a briefing on what Chaplains do at a national event.  It only covered the importance of church services and not one single word was mentioned about other support.  The individual was not a CAP Chaplain as he did not meet the requirements.

Becoming a CAP Chaplain or a Moral Leadership Officer should not equate to proselytizing  a new group of people.  Thankfully I have never seen this take place.

I will call out Chaplain Lt Col Tom Miller by name as a shining example for other Chaplains to emulate.  He is also a MP, IC3, and Level V in professional development.   PCR is lucky to have him in the region.

Rest assured that Chaplains do more than just provide church services  at CAP events

Couldn't agree more that Chaplains/CDIs should not engage in proselyting.  Character Development sessions are just that...not a time to rehash or rehearse a sermon, Sunday School lesson, or a devotional thought.  There is a reason why the CAPP 265-2 "Flight Time: Values for Living" has been developed and released. 

While Chaplains are free to speak of their faith in the conduct of CAP religious services or in a personal discussion with a CAP member (when that topic has been brought up by the member and it is a welcomed response).  However in a squadron, group, wing, region or national meeting where attendance of members is mandated, that is not the forum.

Chaplain Lt Col Tom Miller is definitely one of the best examples of what a CAP Chaplain should be.  I count it a privilege to have served with him on missions, on CCRSC staffs...and to call him a friend as well as a fellow colleague in service.

[Chappie]

I was a huge supporter of the CAP chaplaincy until the MER chaplain berated a friend of mine for being a Latter-day Saint, telling the crowd how horrible they are, that they aren't people worthy of salvation, that they only help their own members, and they believe in weird things (the list he gave was totally incorrect - read lies).  He let him know that Mormons didn't have the support of the chaplaincy and never would (strange, since a former national chaplain was LDS).  He was publicly humiliated by that bigot.

I'll never support the chaplains again.  I can't remember the last time I saw such institutional bigotry.  If you're a Mormon, a Catholic, or a Jew, (not to mention Buddhists, Muslims, or anything else) they really don't have much use for you.

I know that we have conversed about this before.  The chaplain you speak of was extrordinarily out of line and did not reflect CAP Chaplain Corps policy.  He should have been 2b'd from the Chaplain Corps and from CAP.  As you report the incident it is a gross violation of ethics and the Chaplains' Code of Conduct.

No doubt there are those chaplains that shouldn't be serving.  However, not all chaplains behave as badly as this individual did.  I take pluralism seriously.  I would never denigrate another members faith or lack of faith.  That is completely against what I believe with every fiber of my being.  The mission of the Chaplains Corps is one of support for the members formed in teams and as individuals.  Every Chaplain must be reminded that they are primarily called to be servants to all.  End of sermon.

Could not have said it better myself....Amen, Chaplain Boldin.

[Lt Oliv]

I was a huge supporter of the CAP chaplaincy until the MER chaplain berated a friend of mine for being a Latter-day Saint, telling the crowd how horrible they are, that they aren't people worthy of salvation, that they only help their own members, and they believe in weird things (the list he gave was totally incorrect - read lies).  He let him know that Mormons didn't have the support of the chaplaincy and never would (strange, since a former national chaplain was LDS).  He was publicly humiliated by that bigot.

I'll never support the chaplains again.  I can't remember the last time I saw such institutional bigotry.  If you're a Mormon, a Catholic, or a Jew, (not to mention Buddhists, Muslims, or anything else) they really don't have much use for you.

So you'll respond to bigotry by being bigoted toward Chaplains? Great approach. 

What about the Catholic Chaplains who don't proselytize? What about the Jewish Chaplains who are there to build inter-faith bridges? To heck with all of them, because you met a bad chaplain?

I really hope you understand the sheer hypocrisy of your statement in that one person allowed you to form a prejudice against an entire group. 

Are there people who have no business as Chaplains? Absolutely.  There are ministers who belong to churches which teach that no one outside of their own church walls is entitled to salvation.  These are the ministers who sign on with CAP (or any other organization) because they look at it as an opportunity to win converts.

But for the rest, it is an opportunity to help their community.  They offer a specialized skill that comes with many years of study.  Add CISM training to the mix, and they are really great.  When I consider that my wife had 5 years of seminary AFTER 4 years of undergraduate study, balances a congregation and other inter-faith activities yet still has time to function as a Group Chaplain, I am amazed at the dedication.  Then, to see someone say that they will "never support the Chaplains again" because of one person they met once before, it is truly sickening and disheartening.