the importance of Chaplains

[dogboy]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

[Spike]

I don't think anyone in CAP will say Chaplains are not important. 

[Eclipse]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

Cite, please.  The only study I can find conflicts with that statement and indicates few who were involved actually consulted clergy.  http://www.scribd.com/doc/14004050/911-Mental-Health-in-the-Wake-of-Terrorist-Attackspdf

I seriously doubt that 90% of the US population even has a church, let alone consults with a member of clergy for emotional issues.

Further, I'm not sure how this is relevant to CAP, as few, if anyone, I know would consider their unit Chaplain as "clergy" for counseling of emotional distress - certainly not 90% by a long shot.

Most of our members are in a CAP uniform maybe...maybe, 4 hours a week and in an active month
1 or 2 weeks contiguous for an activity like an encampment or a long-duration mission.  Certainly not enough time to require "counseling", or "feeding of the spirit" which can't be postponed until they get home.

We don't do anything akin to a combat soldier who is locked into a situation where they cannot leave and therefore needs to have his spiritual needs fulfilled in the foxhole.

If I am have an emotional or spiritual need I'm going to go to my personal clergy when I get home.  If I'm not comfortable doing that, how am I going to be comfortable spilling my guts to someone I barely know that I see twice a month and likely has no common frame of reference for the conversation?  Likewise, frankly, with CISM.

[dogboy]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

Cite, please. 

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/345/20/1507

I  don't think people have to have a church to consult clergy, especially in times of trauma.

[Spike]

^ Wow....really?  You are citing something from NOVEMBER 2001.

If you can find something that was published this year or even in 2008, I would be more interested in this subject.

I am not stating that clergy are not important, but this is 2009, NOT 1709.  The church does not have an influence in that many lives in the United States, like it did 300 years ago.  Back then, the Church was the only place a person could seek "relief" or consultation.  Today we have thousands of different places an individual can seek help from.

I would even go as far as saying chaplains and clergy are far less contributing to a person today as they have been in the past.

Religion is a personal issue.  You can use it, or leave it.   

[jimmydeanno]

^ Wow....really?  You are citing something from NOVEMBER 2001.

If you can find something that was published this year or even in 2008, I would be more interested in this subject.

I am not stating that clergy are not important, but this is 2009, NOT 1709.  The church does not have an influence in that many lives in the United States, like it did 300 years ago.  Back then, the Church was the only place a person could seek "relief" or consultation.  Today we have thousands of different places an individual can seek help from.

I would even go as far as saying chaplains and clergy are far less contributing to a person today as they have been in the past.

Religion is a personal issue.  You can use it, or leave it.   

Sorry there hasn't been an event since 9/11 that made people seek out help en masse. 

But the abstract is perfectly credible.  Last I checked the NEJM wasn't some News of the Force publication.  The hundred some odd PhDs that use it in their own research didn't seem to dismiss it, and it's relevance is still valid considering that it is talking about the 9/11 event, a mere few months after it.

Eclipse was looking for a cite for the stat posted, here it is.

[Eclipse]

From the abstract:

"Results Forty-four percent of the adults reported one or more substantial symptoms of stress; 90 percent had one or more symptoms to at least some degree. Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent). Eighty-four percent of parents reported that they or other adults in the household had talked to their children about the attacks for an hour or more; 34 percent restricted their children's television viewing. Thirty-five percent of children had one or more stress symptoms, and 47 percent were worried about their own safety or the safety of loved ones."

It does not say "turned to support from clergy" it says "turning to religion" - whatever that means.  IMHO that's a world of difference, and could mean anything from a silent prayer to their own personal salvation. As a point of fact, the word "clergy" does not appear in the article.

It also says 98% of respondents talked to "others", and 90% had some kind of stress.  Yeah, no kidding.

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

[IceNine]

What happened to the rule that.

Religion, Politics, and Racial issues are hot topics not to be discussed in an uncontrolled setting.

This thread it doomed for disaster, and I'm sure the folks here will make short work of it.

[lordmonar]

What was the population surveyed?
Because a 2007 survely showed that only about 84% of the population stated that they had any religion.

[Eclipse]

What was the population surveyed?
Because a 2007 survely showed that only about 84% of the population stated that they had any religion.

560 people randomly called 4-5 days after the attacks.

[DC]

Yeah, in a country of ~ 300,000,000 people 560 should definitely be able to show what the other 299,999,440 of us are thinking and doing.

[AirDX]

Some may question how important Chaplains are.

Research by Schuster, et al reported in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that 90% of the population sought support from clergy after the 9/11 Attacks.

No it doesn't.  It says that people coped by various mechanisms, including "turning to religion (90 percent)".  "Turning to religion" is far different from seeking support from clergy.  Turning to religion can be as simple as reading a few Bible verses, or saying quick a prayer, or just a few miniutes of meditation.  You are assuming too much.

Edit: Someone already beat me to this up topic.

[dogboy]

From the abstract:

"Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent).

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

Is it too much to ask that those who comment upon a source cited actually read the citation rather than just the abstract?

Frankly, I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't understand the difference between the New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the leading medical journal in the country and USA Today.

However, I stand corrected regarding the finding of the study. The actual question was have you turned to prayer, region or spiritual feelings. I apologize for confusing this with "sought support" for clergy.

The mix-up occurred because based upon this use of religion for support, the Harvard Medical School Continuing Education class I took advised the PCP to suggest the patient speak with clergy.

[Eclipse]

From the abstract:

"Respondents throughout the country reported stress symptoms. They coped by talking with others (98 percent), turning to religion (90 percent), participating in group activities (60 percent), and making donations (36 percent).

This is USA-Today fodder, not a useful gauge of anything.

Is it too much to ask that those who comment upon a source cited actually read the citation rather than just the abstract?

Frankly, I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't understand the difference between the New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the leading medical journal in the country and USA Today.

Wow - that went right over your head.

I actually did read the article, which is the point, you cite use some nonsense random poll taken 5 days after one of the most horrific events in recent history as support for how "important" CAP chaplains are.

Except not once does it say anything about clergy, the sampling is too small to mean anything, and the stats don't even make sense when compared to larger studies and common knowledge about religion in the US.

So, what, exactly was the point of the thread to start with?

[DogCollar]

The original subject was "the importance of Chaplains."  The originator did not limit the discussion to CAP Chaplaincy as he sited an oft quoted study from the NEJM.

I would suggest that the focus be narrowed to a discussion of CAP Chaplaincy and how it effects (or doesn't) the missions of the organization.  However, if you want to continue with a free wheeling, emotion laden discussion of Americans turning to religious customs in times of stress...go ahead.  I think that would't be terribly productive, however.

[RiverAux]

Chaplains are going to be helpful to some CAP members while others won't have any interest in using their services. 

Not sure anyone is going to be able to come to a more specific conclusion than that.

[EMT-83]

I can't speculate on what everyone else in the country did, but I spent the evening of September 11, 2001 in church with my family. That was a personal decision, and not at all related to CAP.

Related to CAP, I am aware of several members of our squadron who have sought counseling from our chaplain. We're fortunate to have a pastor that cadets and seniors can relate to, and despite having limited contact with him on a monthly basis, members turned to him when they needed some help.

Does this "effect the missions of the organization" in any way? I don't know.

[lordmonar]

As an athiest I have no need for Chaplains.........


But......I know that 80%+/- of the nation are religious in some way and they do find comfort in their service.

[DC]

I'm agnostic personally, but I have found that when you just need someone to talk to there are some chaplains that can be a big help. I have met a few that respected my personal views, even if they didn't agree with them, and helped me out anyway. Those gentlemen have my utmost respect.

Because of those few I will never question the importance of the chaplain, whether to provide religious support to the faithful, or simply moral support to those of other beliefs. However, when they start preaching under the assumption that everyone present shares their views, or outright tells me I'm wrong, I draw the line.

[AirDX]

I'll weigh in as a lapsed libertarian Buddhist.

Chaplains are great.  I'm not religious in the least, but having someone on scene to look out for the mental needs of both responders and victims is, as we say in the military, a force multiplier.

We had a chaplain on the department when I was a fireman in Virginia - an awesome dude, he had a department vehicle with strobes and a siren, he was always there at a major incident, and anything critical - deaths, anything involving severe injury to a child, etc. 

Again, I'm not religious, but having someone clap you on the shoulder, offer to talk if you wanted to, and hand you a cup of coffee, just kept you in the fight.  That force multiplier thing.

Chaplains have a huge place in CAP if they are willing to serve.