What are you worth?

[CadetProgramGuy]

Our Chief of Staff posed this Question to all of us about 6 months ago......

Answer three questions:

1.  How much time do you devote to CAP weekly?
2.  How much per hour do you think your time is worth?
3.  Why do you feel you should get paid this amount?

My answers were:

30, $15.00, and as the DCP I feel this would be going rate of any local youth organization leader.

[SDF_Specialist]

I've been told that I should be embarrassed to admit how much time I devote to CAP a week. To be honest, I have a ton of time on my hands which is taken up by a toddler, college and CAP. If I had to guess at how much time I spend a week, I would say probably 60+ hours a week. Since $15.00 per hour is reasonable because this could be considered government, I'd say that I'm worth at least $900 a week. The jobs I do are unit ESO and Comms, Wing Comms, and just appointed on Region. Are there incentives?

[CadetProgramGuy]

Nope, and no Bennies either....

[Major Carrales]

1.  How much time do you devote to CAP weekly?

Meetings-

1 1/2 Hour in Kinsgville on Tuesdays for Cadets

2 1/2 Hours on Tuesday for the Corpus Christi Squadron Main meeting in Corpus

2 1/2 Hours on Thursday in Kingsville again with Cadets

SARex-  

I would say an average (if taken) of 3 hours a week (taking into account the number of hours at a monthly SARex and spreading it out over the weeks of the year)

PAO time-

1 hour a day working on my weekly Almanac

10 Hours of normal really uniformed CAP time, 6 hours of CAP Work time travel...(should I even count it, 3 mins to Kingsville then 45minutes to Corpus Christi... about 1 hour 20 minutes back home)

Let's say 20 hours...more or less a part time job.

2.  How much per hour do you think your time is worth?

In my Mariachi Band we get $50 an hour, at school I think I make something like 60 dollars an hour (I am guessing).

I think 10 dollars an hour would do it.  That would be $200 a week that, if I were paid, would be used to buy cadet uniform items.

3.  Why do you feel you should get paid this amount?

Absolutely NOT!  I consider CAP to by my service to my community, State and Nation.  I did not serve in the US Armed Forces...much to my regret...so CAP makes up for that in my world.  It's my duty as a citizen..

[SDF_Specialist]

Nope, and no Bennies either....

Any room for advancement?

[CadetProgramGuy]

Nope, and no Bennies either....

Any room for advancement?

I like your tenacity and straight-forwardness...Tell ya what, I'll add another zero on the end of that paycheck for ya!!

[SDF_Specialist]

Nope, and no Bennies either....

Any room for advancement?

I like your tenacity and straight-forwardness...Tell ya what, I'll add another zero on the end of that paycheck for ya!!

Can't argue with results. I accept your offer. Where do I sign?

[mikeylikey]

Well I have been told I am worthless, worth nothing, not worth it, not enough, penniless, poor, worth less than a monkey, worth just about nothing, not worth thinking about..........must I go on? 

I think I may total $22,154.69  That is just about what I gave for membership fees, gas and fuel, lodging, CAP calls on my cell phone, uniforms, donuts, coffee, boots, orange ball caps, charts and on and on and on and on and...............

[Stonewall]

The problem I have with answering these 3 questions is that the time and effort I put forth for CAP has varied throughout the past 20 years. 

Between 1992 and 2005:

1.  Approximately 20 hours (not including meetings and weekend activities and barring deployments)
2.  $32
3.  I don't think I should get paid this amount.  It's a volunteer organization.  If I were paid, I'd complain even more.

Between 2005 and present:

1.  Approximately 2 hours (not including meetings and weekends and barring deployments)
2.  $16
3.  Read my first #3.

In 20 years, I would venture to say that I've spent well over $30,000.00 on CAP. 

Things I've spent money on that relate to CAP:

Uniforms
Gas in my POV
Gas in corporate vehicles more times than I can count, probably amounting to as much as $5000 over the years
Other members' renewals who couldn't afford it but their skills, time, and participation were needed
Cadets to go to encampment or special activities
DF magmount antennas
Van markings
5 or 6 personal radios
GPS
Medical supplies
Oil changes on CAP vans
Fire extinguishers
Color guard equipment
Ungodly amounts of field gear
Hotels for things like RSC
VS-17 signal panels
5 gal water can
Mats for van
Maps for the van
Maps for me
Amber roof light
Admin supplies like rulers, dry erase boards, pens, pencils, etc.
Stop watches for CPFT
Jetstream radios
Certificate frames
Coins
GTM badges that I bought and awarded
Food and drink for CAP parties
Membership fees
Activity fees
Wear and tear on my POVs
Park fees as much as $40 for a place to train (did this at least 10 times)
Food for cadets whose parents don't give them money
I've bought uniforms for cadets, at least 5, maybe more
I've blown 3 tires on CAP exercises
Sewing supplies (not including days worth of time I've spent sewing for me and lots of members)
Regulation haircuts, even when I wasn't in the military

I don't need to get paid, I just want 1/2 of the money back that I've spent on CAP.

[isuhawkeye]

CP Guy,

I really like this thread, great job. 


I devote between 15-20 hours a week to CAP Plus WTA time, and deployments.

A comperable response agency in our state pays its search managers in excess of $45 per hour. 

I don't mind volunteering, but it rubs me a little raw when another volunteer tasked from the state agency is getting a pay check.

Along these same lines.  Wasn't there a study done a few years ago that defined an average wage for CAP volunteers to determine our worth?

P.S.  return my call some time dude.

[CadetProgramGuy]

P.S.  return my call some time dude.

Benefits of working 2 jobs to pay for my CAP habit....

Check your yahoo email and I will try tomorrow

[Walkman]

1. I've been putting in about 15-20 hours/wk as PAO.

2. Tough question on the pay rate. Many of my PAO duties are similar to my work in advertising & marketing, I could make the rate my agency charges, but...

3. Not into it for the money. But to be completely honest, I'd love to have NHQ hire my agency for it's branding, design & marketing as opposed to whoever came up with the new Transformers tagline. I'd do much better work for less money.

[SDF_Specialist]

P.S.  return my call some time dude.

Benefits of working 2 jobs to pay for my CAP habit....

Check your yahoo email and I will try tomorrow

They have a support group for that you know.

[Hawk200]

Nope, and no Bennies either....

There are benefits, just not tangible ones.

[jimmydeanno]

My time for CAP has varied quite a bit over the last 10 years.  WIWAC, I'd probably spend 20 hours per week and about $20 per week in support of CAP.  Whether this time was specifically weekly meetings or weekend activities, or just planning for one of those items.

When I turned senior, I started off pretty low because the squadron was a mess and I couldn't get anything done.  The new guy always becomes an assistant to some rarely needed job in the squadron, especially when you transfer because no one knows you.

Then, when the Sq CC was removed because the squadron was getting driven into the ground, my role became more substantial and I ended up needing to devote 50-60 hours per week for about 4 months (we had an SUI 4 months after the Sq CC was removed), which then dropped to about 30 hours per week for the next two years. 

We would have a CAP activity EVERY weekend, color guard practices twice per week (4 hours each), weekly meetings and support hours at home.

Well, I transfered again and had no job in the squadron for 6 months.  The squadron was again being driven into the ground (how do I find myself in these situations?)  At the time, I could justify spending 5 hours a week. 

Well, we still have the same Sq CC but he has apparantly learned to deal with some of his trust issues and is actually "permitting" each of his officers to do their jobs without his micromanaging. YAY!  Now that things are ramping back up, I find that I'm spending again, close to 30 hours per week.

I would say that on average I spend close to 2K a year buying uniform items for cadets that really can't afford them, activities, gas for CAP vans, printing, etc.

My guess is that if it were a paid position, I would be making significantly less than what I do now.  Heck, our wing admins only make like $14.00/hr...

[SDF_Specialist]

Heck, our wing admins only make like $14.00/hr...

Doesn't that vary depending on the Wing?

[EXArmySFinIowa]

Question, why would you be worth less in a volunteer position then a paid one?

I spend approximately 30 hours a week:

4 hours on Tuesday
4 hours on Saturday
2 hours per night on CAP development and Admin
1 weekend per month at WTA (until traveling for work got in the way)

So if you break my salary down by the hour that would equal about $67.00 per hour, or in other words I give up an additional $2010 in potential earnings per week for CAP.

Never underestimate your value, if CAP had to pay for your services they would not get it for less.

[Stonewall]

Looking at the amount of time many CAP members spend on CAP during a single week, as many as 30 hours, I have two questions to ask.  Do you have a full-time job and are you married?

During my prime in CAP, when I was spending up wards to 20 hours a week on CAP, I was single and didn't have to answer to anyone.  I worked, went to college, was in the guard, and did CAP.  Sometimes at work and in school I'd spend time doing CAP stuff, thus contributing to my 20 hours a week.

But now, as a father and husband, I couldn't see spending 40+ hours a week at work, then coming home to spend 20 hours on CAP stuff. 

When I'm not at work, go ahead and take between 6 and 8 hours a day for sleep.  Then there are typical chores, like yard work, cleaning, dishes, cooking, ironing, changing diapers, bathing my son, watching about 30 minutes of TV, checking out CAP Talk or CadetStuff, taking a shower, folding clothes, paying bills, fixing something that has broken, going on walks with the family at least 4 days a week.  To be honest, I love CAP.  But to me, these days CAP doesn't come first, second, third or even fourth.  That doesn't mean I don't love CAP or wish I could spend more time, but my priorities have changed.

I just have to know, from you married folks with a kid or two, how do you spend between 15 and 30 hours on CAP outside of being gone at least 8 hours a day for your "real job"?

[CadetProgramGuy]

I just have to know, from you married folks with a kid or two, how do you spend between 15 and 30 hours on CAP outside of being gone at least 8 hours a day for your "real job"?

Yes I am married, and I have to make deals with my wife.  before I was married I was 40 hours a week CAP along side my 40 hour a week job.

Now I tell her that I get one weekend a month for CAP as well as any and all missions that come up.  She gets the rest.  I work on CAP stuff during whatever free time I get.  Sometimes I make deals to get that time as well.

[mikeylikey]

But now, as a father and husband, I couldn't see spending 40+ hours a week at work, then coming home to spend 20 hours on CAP stuff. 

Let it be known Kirt is not a deadbeat dad.  I assume the first reduction in CAP time came when you got married.  The second when your wife says "your staying home with the baby.......I need some time away from the diapers"?  What happens when little Bowden joins CAP, does DAD pick up more hours in a CAP uniform??   

[Walkman]

Looking at the amount of time many CAP members spend on CAP during a single week, as many as 30 hours, I have two questions to ask.  Do you have a full-time job and are you married?

Married, 5 kids.

The advantage I have is that I own my own business, so I can take time during the day to work on PAO stuff, with out having to worry about the boss.

[SDF_Specialist]

Looking at the amount of time many CAP members spend on CAP during a single week, as many as 30 hours, I have two questions to ask.  Do you have a full-time job and are you married?

Married, 5 kids.

The advantage I have is that I own my own business, so I can take time during the day to work on PAO stuff, with out having to worry about the boss.

If you work out of home, then you do still have to worry about a boss. Most of  us married men call the boss "honey" or "dear".

[Walkman]

If you work out of home, then you do still have to worry about a boss. Most of  us married men call the boss "honey" or "dear".

The whole home-office thing has never really worked for me or my family. I have an office in town. That really made a huge differrence in how smoothly things went.

[SDF_Specialist]

If you work out of home, then you do still have to worry about a boss. Most of  us married men call the boss "honey" or "dear".

The whole home-office thing has never really worked for me or my family. I have an office in town. That really made a huge differrence in how smoothly things went.

Are you an attorney?

[Walkman]

Are you an attorney?

Sorry for the thread drifting...

Nope, not an attorney. I own an advertising agency. www.eurekaville.com

[SDF_Specialist]

Are you an attorney?

Sorry for the thread drifting...

Nope, not an attorney. I own an advertising agency. www.eurekaville.com

Awesome. So has your unit convinced you to print up banners for CAP for things like recruiting?

[Walkman]

Awesome. So has your unit convinced you to print up banners for CAP for things like recruiting?

Actually, I'm the one doing the convincing.   

That's why I asked for the PAO spot. I love what I do. I'm going about this as I would for a client, although my clients have budgets. I've put together a multi-media marketing & PR campaign for the next 12 months. So far, we've had 3 write-ups in the paper, with another one the way when our O-rides come up in a week or so (UTWG's helping out with the Fossett search). My biggest issue is going to be finding some cash to do al lthis stuff.

[SDF_Specialist]

Awesome. So has your unit convinced you to print up banners for CAP for things like recruiting?

Actually, I'm the one doing the convincing.   

That's why I asked for the PAO spot. I love what I do. I'm going about this as I would for a client, although my clients have budgets. I've put together a multi-media marketing & PR campaign for the next 12 months. So far, we've had 3 write-ups in the paper, with another one the way when our O-rides come up in a week or so (UTWG's helping out with the Fossett search). My biggest issue is going to be finding some cash to do al lthis stuff.

Would you be willing to do a freebie for a unit other than your own? Just curious

[Stonewall]

But now, as a father and husband, I couldn't see spending 40+ hours a week at work, then coming home to spend 20 hours on CAP stuff. 

Let it be known Kirt is not a deadbeat dad.  I assume the first reduction in CAP time came when you got married.  The second when your wife says "your staying home with the baby.......I need some time away from the diapers"?  What happens when little Bowden joins CAP, does DAD pick up more hours in a CAP uniform??   

Actually, no.

I was pretty much a full-time CAP guru through 9/11 and when I got hired at the World Bank by the [CAP] Wing Chief of Staff.  My CAP time actually increased because at first, I had a lot of "free time" at work.  In fact, I think I burned out a few printers and copiers.

Around this time, I went to my 10 year high school reunion where I met back up with my wife.  We had known each other since 7th grade but lost contact after graduating high school.  Yadda yadda yadda, she moved up to DC in June of '02 and my level of participation actually increased in CAP.  She joined and became our Safety Officer.  We were doing CAP stuff all the time.  The thing is, we were now living together but because I had so much "free time" at work, I didn't need to do so much CAP work at home.  Just go to meetings and weekend activities, which we did together so I killed two birds with one stone.

When we got married in 2003 and bought a house, I became a squadron commander.  A year or so later, we got a new wing commander who, for years, we hated each other didn't see eye to eye.  She pulled one final hair brained email that sent me over the top and from Moscow, Russia, I sent her an email telling her that I couldn't deal with her BS any longer and was stepping down.  This was 2005ish.

In 2006, when we decided to start a family, we also decided to leave the fast paced DC lifestyle where I was traveling 50% of the time and be near our families.  Everyone in both of or families live in Florida. 

Back to my involvement with CAP...  Here in Florida, I went back to the squadron I grew up in during the late 80s to '91.  It wasn't the same beast.  I went in, attended a few meetings, taught a couple classes and the ask me to be DCC and hinted they needed a new CC.  Hold the phone here folks, I've got a kid coming in a month after we moved to FL and I won't be involved for a while.  That, and I couldn't stand the pansified cadets prominence of home schooled kids who seem to be using CAP to check a box; wearing Hawk Ranger garb to meetings, showing zero interest to fly in our 2006 plane for free; having no interest in doing anything cool other than drill team crap, and just an all around attitude of weakness.

I choose to spend time with my son baby and wife.  I've been attending meetings regularly but keeping my distance from cadets and taking it slow.  I run the squadron website with absolutely no training in building one but I did it anyway so I could say "see, I'm still involved"; and the fact that the previous website was pathetic.

I mean, look at my son.  How could I choose CAP over him?  He's so freakin awesome!


Anyway, it's all been me, my decision.  I chose to step back from CAP and spend time doing stuff for me.  I'm loving my time in the Guard, I like my job, but more importantly I love my family.  I enjoy surfing, working out and shooting.  I've been broken for a month now but we identified the problems and I should be getting better soon (compression fracture and herniated disk).

Last Saturday, my wife and I went to CAP to help run a PT test.  I helped, and she actually did the CPFT in preparation for her AF PFT next month.

So, like I said, I spend about 2 hours a week now.  And I don't count CAP Talk as time spent on CAP.

[TankerT]

Yeah.  That little guy would make a big difference.  (Love his shirt by the way.)

[SAR-EMT1]

Time spent on CAP?

Does time spent here on CAPTalk count? 

[mikeylikey]

^  Good question.  If so, I am worth so much more to CAP then!

[MIKE]

Does time spent here on CAPTalk count? 

If not, a wooden nickle.

[A.Member]

I don't understand the point of this thread or the purpose of the question.  What does it matter?  Seems like a rather silly question to ask.

I'm pretty certain nobody ever joined CAP because it pays well.

[SAR-EMT1]

So if you break my salary down by the hour that would equal about $67.00 per hour, or in other words I give up an additional $2010 in potential earnings per week for CAP.

Never underestimate your value, if CAP had to pay for your services they would not get it for less.

With all due respect and awe... What the heck do you do for living?

I spend about 6-8 hours a week on CAPtalk, 2 hours a week at the Squadron and about an hour a day on work related to my squadron duties. My pay at work is only ten bucks an hour.     ... Why doesnt EMS get paid as well as all the other healthcare workers?