Iowa Wing CAP

[Al Sayre]

I made a presentation on The Iowa Project based on the materials I got from y'all at the Mississippi Wing Conference.  It was pretty well received by most who were there.  There were also some reps from Region and National who seemed pretty interested, including Susan Easter, who asked for copies of my powerpoint and other materials.  I hope that they liked it... (So far I haven't seen any black vans following me around or parked down the street )  So we'll see where it leads. 

It was also interesting that Ms. Easter's presentation from the Exec. Director contained a lot of the ideas put forth in the original report, and the Region Commander had a few more in his presentation.

[mikeylikey]

Any chance we could see the presentation? 

[Al Sayre]

If anyone wants the powerpoint, send me a pm with your email address and I'll get you a copy.

[USAF-LT-G]

Personally, I think that the whole Iowa Wing is a great example. I don't see how the CAP Officer Corp can be an example of a leadership organization (especially to cadets) if Officers don't have the background or training for leadership, an advanced understanding of customs/courtesies and drill and ceremonies, and physically fit. There's no disadavantage whatsoever to incorporating a PT program and PT standards for Officers in CAP. It's a healthy, beneficial lifestyle.

I'm not a big fan of the Navy, but to be honest, I think that they're Sea Cadets program is the perfect example of what the CAP Officer Corps should be.

#1 Every new member joining the Officer Corps, does not initially get involved as an officer. They have to go through a year's worth of training and instructor courses (unless they have a military background), and THEN if they are selected and want to commit more of their self to the program... they go through a formal "Commissioning Ceremony" and are "Appointed and sworn in as an Officer." If they don't have the time or interest in being an Officer, they can remain as an instructor.

#2 In order to join and be an instructor or officer, you have to maintain their PT requirements. I think that's great, because no one thinks a uniform looks good if it doesn't fit the person. It doesn't look professional, and it doesn't set a good example. If you're going to wear a uniform, you should wear it proud, consider it a priviledge. Afterall, you are representing the United States and don't want to be giving the wrong impression to others who might see you in that uniform. I wouldn't want OTHER people talking about how crappy CAP is and what a joke it is (which they already do) because the members who are in it disgrace the uniform they're wearing. I'm sure this is part of the reason the Air Force doesn't like the fact that we're wearing their uniform... because there are too many people disgracing the uniform.

#3 Since the Sea Cadets are an extension of the US Navy, their uniforms are EXACTLY identical to US Navy Officers except for a small patch signifying them as a Sea Cadet Officer, etc. Other than that, they where the EXACT same uniform. Same badges, same rank, same medals, same uniforms. After all they are sponsored by the US Navy. Personally CAP was formed as an "extension" of the US Air Force... why is everyone trying to sever that tie? We SHOULD be trying to work MORE with the Air Force, instead of coming up with our own separate rules which seem to be segrating us more.

To me, it just doesn't make sense to me why so many members want to make CAP a more "civilianized" organization. The roots were from the Air Force, we're supossed to be supporting them. If you don't like it, TOUGH! If you have a problem with the Air Force, or the military... why the hell are you in CAP? It's not the "Civilian Air Patrol..." it's the United States Air Force Auxilary Civil Air Patrol. DEAL WITH IT!

Just my take.

[Major Carrales]

The idea of a CAP where people work up from enlisted grades to officers has been suggested before along with a whole host of other alternatives.  The heck is in the transition to it.  What happens to people with established grade/rank at present?  What about NCOs?  DO pilots get advanced promotions?  These are elements that must be addressed.

Sea Cadets is too different an organization to compare to CAP directly, different objectives than CAP.  CAP has additional requirements and a different congressional mandate.

Good suggestions...but one would need to tweak the concept and measure it against the realities in CAP.  That is likely why we are here. 

[ColonelJack]

Remember, too, that in the Sea Cadets, young people join at enlisted ranks and progress only through the grade of chief petty officer.  Cadets do not hold any kind of officer grade; neither do adults hold any kind of enlisted grade.  The separation between cadets and their adults is that -- cadets are enlisted, adults are officers (or warrant officers or instructors).

Also, for those who accept rank as an indication of training and/or progression, Sea Cadet officer ranks only go through lieutenant commander (read major for us).  And you have to have an act of God or Congress to get yourself initially advanced to lieutenant commander; most get ensign or at most lieutenant j.g. after their year prior to officer appointment.

The parallels aren't very parallel; their organization serves their purpose, while our organization serves ours.

Jack

[jimmydeanno]

[HIJACK]

The roots were from the Air Force,

Sorry, CAP predates the Air Force, our roots have always been a Civilian Organization.  If you wanted to say so, you could say our roots are with the Army or Civil Defense.

If you don't like it, TOUGH! If you have a problem with the Air Force, or the military... why the hell are you in CAP? It's not the "Civilian Air Patrol..." it's the United States Air Force Auxilary Civil Air Patrol. DEAL WITH IT!

I do believe it is "Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary."  No one has a problem with the military, just making the organization into something it's not.  It's not the "Civilian Air Patrol?" are you sure...last I checked...Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but we are "full time" CAP, and "Part-time" USAF Aux.

Civil: of citizens in their ordinary capacity, or of the ordinary life and affairs of citizens, as distinguished from military and ecclesiastical life and affairs.

"distinguished from military life...," the rest of the definitions make it a point to distinguish "civil people" from military ones, making a clear distinction.  Thus being...*gasp* CIVILIANS!

[/hijack]


Just my take 

EDIT: Add "or Civil Defense"

[ColonelJack]

[HIJACK]

Hi yourself!

Jack

[USAF-LT-G]

Sorry, CAP predates the Air Force, our roots have always been a Civilian Organization.  If you wanted to say so, you could say our roots are with the Army or Civil Defense.

FYI...

The concrete plan for a general aviation organization designed to aid the U.S. military at home was envisaged in 1938 by Gill Robb Wilson. Wilson, then aviation editor of The New York Herald Tribune, was on assignment in Germany prior to the outbreak of World War II. He took note of the actions and intentions of the Nazi government and its tactic of grounding all general aviation. Upon returning, he reported his findings to the New Jersey governor, advising that an organization be created that would use the civil air fleet of New Jersey as an augmentative force for the war effort that seemed impending. The plan was approved, and with the backing of Chief of the Army Air Corps General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold and the Civil Aeronautics Authority, the New Jersey Civil Air Defense Services (NJCADS) was formed. The plan called for the use of single-engine aircraft for liaison work, as well as coastal and infrastructure patrol. General security activities regarding aviation were also made the responsibility of the NJCADS.

I do believe it is "Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary."  No one has a problem with the military, just making the organization into something it's not.  It's not the "Civilian Air Patrol?" are you sure...last I checked...Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but we are "full time" CAP, and "Part-time" USAF Aux.

see above, we were called to Aid the US Military.

Civil: of citizens in their ordinary capacity, or of the ordinary life and affairs of citizens, as distinguished from military and ecclesiastical life and affairs.

"distinguished from military life...," the rest of the definitions make it a point to distinguish "civil people" from military ones, making a clear distinction.  Thus being...*gasp* CIVILIANS!


Just my take 

EDIT: Add "or Civil Defense"

Yea, as if I don't the definition of civil. While your "dictionary" definition is colorful. It doesn't really say much.

There were 2 major reasons for forming the Civil Air Patrol, one of which directly implies the US Air Force Military... or the term "Airmen."

During this time, the Army Air Corps and the Civil Aeronautics Administration initiated two separate subprograms. The first was the introduction of a civilian pilot refresher course and the Civilian Pilot Training Program. The motive behind this step was to increase the pool of available airmen who could be placed into military service if such a time came. The second step was concentrated more on the civil air strength of the nation in general and called for the organization of civilian aviators and personnel in such a way that the collective manpower and know-how would assist in the seemingly inevitable all-out war effort. This second step was arguably the Federal government's blessing towards the creation of the Civil Air Patrol. It was followed by a varied and intense debate over organizational logistics, bureaucracy and other administrative and practical details.

In other words... i'm not making stuff up.

[MIKE]

Mind not subverting the curse filter?

[jimmydeanno]

The intent was not to doubt the "historical origins" of the CAP, but to question your take on people trying to "civilianize" it.  The organization has never been about turning members into members of the military.  The word "Civil" was used purposely to distinguish that we are first and foremost "civilians."

ARTICLE V
OBJECTS AND PURPOSES
1. The objects and purposes of Civil Air Patrol shall be:
a. To provide an organization to encourage and aid American citizens in the contribution of their
efforts, services, and resources in the development of aviation and in the maintenance of aerospace
supremacy.
b. To provide an organization to encourage and develop, by example, the voluntary contribution of
private citizens to the public welfare.
c. To provide aviation and aerospace education and training, especially to its senior and cadet
members.
d. To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
e. To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local
and national emergencies.
f. To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions.

WHEREAS, there exists nationwide a continuing requirement for an organization of private citizens with
adequate training, facilities, and the desire to assist in meeting the trauma of local and national
emergencies; and,
WHEREAS, Civil Air Patrol is designated as the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force under
10 USC 9441 which authorizes various Air Force support and designates Civil Air Patrol and its members
as instrumentalities of the United States while performing Air Force non-combat missions.

The name of the Corporation shall be "Civil Air Patrol" and its status is that of the volunteer civilian
auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

No where in our current "purpose" does it mention turning our members into members of the military, or making them into a military reserve.  I agree, that one of our purposes is to assist the USAF.  No one is contending that fact.  If you try to eliminate the "civilian" side of CAP, you eliminate the core of the program and it becomes another branch of the military.

There is a big difference in operating in a military style environment and "being in the military."  I would say to you, "If you don't like it, TOUGH! If you have a problem with what the organization is... why the hell are you in CAP?  DEAL WITH IT!"

Members should however, act in a manner that is outlined in our regulations and manuals.  This includes CAPP 151.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

[USAF-LT-G]

I'm not suggesting "turning a civilian" into a "Military" member. However, I am suggesting that since we ARE technically a part of the Air Force, regardless of how loosely a tie that has become. More standards should be in place. There's no reason to not be in somewhat of physical shape to wear a uniform. There's no reason not to have training in place instead of just "handing out" rank. I think it's pathetic that cadets don't have "so-called" officers to look up to, or seek advice on things such as drill-ceremonies on. There's no reason an officer should not know these basics. An officer should know what it's like to deal with crunched time-management just as a cadet does. An officer should be held to higher standards than a cadet is. I'm suggesting that people who join CAP should be joining to better themselves and to better others. Not to stay the same old average joe, eating doughnuts every morning, and being lazy. CAP shouldn't be just "another organization" like the Elks club, or a social club... because it's supossed to be so much more. It is supossed to be an organization that teaches what an ideal citizen should be, and it should be an organization others look up to and want to be involved in. Doing the bare minimum never got anyone anywhere... people should WANT to better themselves, and I think that since we already have the USAF authorization to wear uniforms, play in their missions, and take part in the customs... that we SHOULD want to be the leaders that we signed up to be.

I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm trying to make a point. And I agree with CAPP 151 statement, except that people should FOLLOW it. Not do half of it... or a portion of it, or trim the edges with it. If you're going to wear the uniform, you have to play by the rules.

Here's just an FYI as well. Rules and Regulations aren't open to interpretation. Everyone has a natural sense of what is right and wrong. While CAP Rules and Regulations are not written "EXACTLY" clear every time... they're not supossed to be manipulated to fit the needs of those seeking ways around them. That being said... more "Attention to Detail" should be considered in the regulations. But in all seriousness, EVERONE knows deep down what a regulation is REALLY trying to say. People shouldn't assume the opposite, and do something completely other than what the regulation was intended for.

[jimmydeanno]

^AGREED! 

[capchiro]

Gentlemen, While I appreciate the Rambo attitude of some on the Board, I must remind them that a lot of the productive members of CAP are 50-70 years old, over weight, out of shape, and grey haired.  Some of these members have over 30 years in CAP and know what they are doing.  Some of them wear the golf shirt and gray slacks.  Some of them have started squadrons that wouldn't be here otherwise.  Some members can do nothing about their physical conditioning due to illnesses, hormones, etc., anymore than they can about their grey hair.  One of our best communications officers in Palm Beach County in the 70's was a blind member that also was a radio operator for the Civil Defense.  I really think you need to get over the "Fit to Fight" mentality and start appreciating the talent we have.  Most of these old members that are out of shape were at one time in the military and in shape and fought for our country.  Age is not something to be ashamed of.  Respect it.  Most of them could probably have kicked your butts at your age.  So get over it.  As usual, JMHO

[jimmydeanno]

The CAP phsyical fitness program isn't just designed for cadet PT tests, but is designed to promote a physical fitness routine and attitude among the whole membership.

You are right that some people in the organization can not help their weight due to illness and such, but those who can should make a concerted effort to keep themselves healthy.  Being "fit to fight" is more than looking good in your uniform, its about keeping yourself healthy to perform the mission you signed up for.  Its about holding yourself to a professional level so that others can depend on you. 

Even at the age of >60 all doctors will tell you that maintaining a healthy lifestyle includes phsyical activity.  That doesn't mean a 75 year old man with arthritis needs to run a 5:30 mile (that's 5 minutes and 30 seconds, not 5 hours and 30 minutes  ), but should do what they are capable of doing.

I don't think that the Lt was implying that all members be the next Arnolds, but when wearing a uniform (no matter which one, golf shirts or AF Blues) should wear it the way it's supposed to be worn, with pride.  This means doing what you can to present a "good" appearance in that uniform.

I truly appreciate all the hard work and dedication that our "older" members put in, and I completely agree that many squadrons, etc would not be here without those people.

I don't think that you would contest his other statements about providing better training to those individuals, and becoming the leaders we should be, part of being that leader is leading by example, and that includes doing what you can to promote a healthy lifestyle to your membership.

[MIKE]

And this has to do with Iowa Wing CAP how?

[jimmydeanno]

[isuhawkeye]

Iowa has completed its CI with an overall grade of Successful (is that the term we are using these days).  The final report should be out in a few weeks. 

Our last WTA was a success graduating several new scanners, observers, and ground team members. 

Finally the over our evaluated exercise is looming over the horizon.

it has been a busy spring for the Iowa wing

[isuhawkeye]

one more thing...

The Iowa legislature has passed our appropriation, and it is waiting to be signed by the Governor.  This year the Iowa wing got a raise.  for the next fiscal year we will receive $120,000

[flapsUP]

A $20K raise to the $100K you already get.  You must be doing something right over there.  What's your secret.

Congrats.