Goodbye to an NCO

[lordmonar]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

[abdsp51]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

Why should Ma Blue when it is more in our realm to do so?  We are not that important in the big scheme of things to warrant half a page in something that directly impacts an AMNs career. 

[lordmonar]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

Why should Ma Blue when it is more in our realm to do so?  We are not that important in the big scheme of things to warrant half a page in something that directly impacts an AMNs career.

The national guard and air force reserves does not directly impact my career.  AFSOI does not impact my career, The Air Force Historical Research Agency does not directly impact my career....but at one time they all had a blurb in the official book of knowledge.

I'm not asking for a briefing.  I'm not asking for airman and officers to be able to run a CAP squadron.   I'm simply asking for a presence in the official "this is the Air Force" book.

Consider all the BS the AF does make you do through out your career....this is NOT too much to ask.

No one in the USAF should ever say "never heard of CAP before" after basic training.    They may simply know that it is "a bunch of civilians that help us out"....but it is scads better then what they know now.

[abdsp51]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

Why should Ma Blue when it is more in our realm to do so?  We are not that important in the big scheme of things to warrant half a page in something that directly impacts an AMNs career.

The national guard and air force reserves does not directly impact my career.  AFSOI does not impact my career, The Air Force Historical Research Agency does not directly impact my career....but at one time they all had a blurb in the official book of knowledge.

I'm not asking for a briefing.  I'm not asking for airman and officers to be able to run a CAP squadron.   I'm simply asking for a presence in the official "this is the Air Force" book.

Consider all the BS the AF does make you do through out your career....this is NOT too much to ask.

No one in the USAF should ever say "never heard of CAP before" after basic training.    They may simply know that it is "a bunch of civilians that help us out"....but it is scads better then what they know now.

Ok but BMT is not the place and sure as heck not the PDG. 

[lordmonar]

Because if it is not in the big book of knowledge it is not important.   

Yes CAP needs to step up their game.  But Ma Blue can do this little thing to help us out.

Why should Ma Blue when it is more in our realm to do so?  We are not that important in the big scheme of things to warrant half a page in something that directly impacts an AMNs career.

The national guard and air force reserves does not directly impact my career.  AFSOI does not impact my career, The Air Force Historical Research Agency does not directly impact my career....but at one time they all had a blurb in the official book of knowledge.

I'm not asking for a briefing.  I'm not asking for airman and officers to be able to run a CAP squadron.   I'm simply asking for a presence in the official "this is the Air Force" book.

Consider all the BS the AF does make you do through out your career....this is NOT too much to ask.

No one in the USAF should ever say "never heard of CAP before" after basic training.    They may simply know that it is "a bunch of civilians that help us out"....but it is scads better then what they know now.

Ok but BMT is not the place and sure as heck not the PDG.

If it is not in the BMT guide or the PDG.....it does not exist for most airman.   

[abdsp51]

If it is not in the BMT guide or the PDG.....it does not exist for most airman.   

And you and I both know most Airmen won't care.  It'll be like everything else in one ear and out the other.

[lordmonar]

If it is not in the BMT guide or the PDG.....it does not exist for most airman.   

And you and I both know most Airmen won't care.  It'll be like everything else in one ear and out the other.

I don't want them to care....I want them to know.

[Storm Chaser]

CAP has zero impact on most Airmen, so a briefing about CAP at BMT would mean very little. Perhaps if we worried less about uniforms, insignias, promotions and whether Airmen know about us or greet us when in uniform, and instead focused of making significant contributions to Air Force operations and non-combat missions, then maybe, just maybe the Air Force would see us differently.

[abdsp51]

And you and I both know most Airmen won't care.  It'll be like everything else in one ear and out the other.

I don't want them to care....I want them to know.
[/quote]

If they don't care they will not recall nor bother learning it.  You and I both know that to be the case.  I still say if the org wants people to know they need to put the info out and not the AF.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Why when we as the org should do a better job of marketing.  You and I both know the average AF member doesn't care and won't care.  Trying to jam it down their throats is not the way to go and all the agencies you listed are far more critical to the overall AF mission than CAP. 

You certainly have a flair for the dramatic.  A short briefing is not what I would call "jamming it down one's throat."

Not to mention that you commit the logical fallacy of hasty overgeneralisation when you say "you and I both know the average AF member doesn't care and won't care," then who owns the problem with that?  Why DON'T they care?  Maybe it is because they don't KNOW?

Not everything in this life is marketing-based.  We are not a commodity to be bought or sold.

It almost sounds like you do not WANT CAP to be known by the Air Force.  If that is the general attitude throughout the Air Force, then maybe we really do NOT need to be connected with them.  Who knows, maybe the Army would be more welcoming to us and we would be more useful to them...saving them wear and tear on ArNG aircraft called out for SAR.

I know I sometimes get bloody sick and tired of having to defend CAP and its purpose (and why we wear their uniform) to Airmen who only know of CAP through apocryphal rumour and innuendo, but yet have the (sometimes) unspoken expectation of having to just stand and smile while said Airmen make fun of CAP, denigrate us, call us "wannabes," etc.  Don't laugh, it does happen and I have been on the receiving end of it.

However, I decided long ago that I would not be the lightning rod for every CAP member who trolled for a salute, wore the uniform wrong, was rude to an AF member, tried to shop at the Commissary, tried to buy non-uniform items at the BX, tried to tell an AF member that s/he was out of uniform...I just simply say "Sir/Sergeant/Airman, if you're going to insult me, I have better things to do," and then walk away without another word.

[lordmonar]

And you and I both know most Airmen won't care.  It'll be like everything else in one ear and out the other.

I don't want them to care....I want them to know.

If they don't care they will not recall nor bother learning it.  You and I both know that to be the case.  I still say if the org wants people to know they need to put the info out and not the AF.
[/quote]I agree we need to step out game.  The USAF can help us out a little by adding us to the BMTS guide and PDG. May be adding us to PME. 

If out uniforms were a chapter in 36-2903 again we would have a presence in the official book of knowledge.   Zero effort on anyone's part but we would be known. 

[abdsp51]

Why when we as the org should do a better job of marketing.  You and I both know the average AF member doesn't care and won't care.  Trying to jam it down their throats is not the way to go and all the agencies you listed are far more critical to the overall AF mission than CAP. 

You certainly have a flair for the dramatic.  A short briefing is not what I would call "jamming it down one's throat."

Not to mention that you commit the logical fallacy of hasty overgeneralisation when you say "you and I both know the average AF member doesn't care and won't care," then who owns the problem with that?  Why DON'T they care?  Maybe it is because they don't KNOW?

Not everything in this life is marketing-based.  We are not a commodity to be bought or sold.

It almost sounds like you do not WANT CAP to be known by the Air Force.  If that is the general attitude throughout the Air Force, then maybe we really do NOT need to be connected with them.  Who knows, maybe the Army would be more welcoming to us and we would be more useful to them...saving them wear and tear on ArNG aircraft called out for SAR.

I know I sometimes get bloody sick and tired of having to defend CAP and its purpose (and why we wear their uniform) to Airmen who only know of CAP through apocryphal rumour and innuendo, but yet have the (sometimes) unspoken expectation of having to just stand and smile while said Airmen make fun of CAP, denigrate us, call us "wannabes," etc.  Don't laugh, it does happen and I have been on the receiving end of it.

However, I decided long ago that I would not be the lightning rod for every CAP member who trolled for a salute, wore the uniform wrong, was rude to an AF member, tried to shop at the Commissary, tried to buy non-uniform items at the BX, tried to tell an AF member that s/he was out of uniform...I just simply say "Sir/Sergeant/Airman, if you're going to insult me, I have better things to do," and then walk away without another word.

Which shows completely what you know of the AF especially it's Airmen. 

How much time do you spend with them daily?  HOw much time do you spend listening to their interests and hobbies? 

What I say is fact from my time in and that I see and am around them daily.  A short 30 min briefing to you to a captive audience is jamming it down someone's throat. 

I never said I don't want CAP to not be known I have simply said that if CAP wants to be know beyond what is know then they need to do it.  And whether you see it and choose to believe it or not guess what this is a marketing issue. 

Now maybe instead of crying about a problem you should take steps to fix it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was one of those Airmen once, which seems to have slipped your mind.

I was ANG, and we knew who CAP were.  A lot of our members were dual members.

Save it with your "crying about it and take steps to fix it."  Easy way out.  I am a civilian, not in the ANG any more, and the closest AFB to me is exactly 272.75 miles from me, in another state.  Except for Coast Guard Stations, there are NO active military installations in my state.

However, YOU are still in the Air Force.  What are YOU doing to "sell us?"

If we were a government contractor trying to sell a good or service to the Air Force, your "marketing" idea may have some merit; i.e., Lockheed trying to sell C-130's or a local construction firm trying to secure a contract to upgrade base housing.

We are not a government contractor.  We have a legal, statutory relationship with the Air Force, as defined by Federal law.  If we did not have that, then there may be something to your insistence on "marketing."

However, that is not the case.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CAP has zero impact on most Airmen, so a briefing about CAP at BMT would mean very little. Perhaps if we worried less about uniforms, insignias, promotions and whether Airmen know about us or greet us when in uniform, and instead focused of making significant contributions to Air Force operations and non-combat missions, then maybe, just maybe the Air Force would see us differently.

How can we make significant contributions to their operations if they are not aware of us?

[Eclipse]

How can we make significant contributions to their operations if they are not aware of us?

No one with mosquito wings is calling CAP out to "contribute".

They might be potential members, but aren't likely to have much time anyway.

[lordmonar]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

[Storm Chaser]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

And by the time those few (about 1%) "skito wings" make Chief, they will have forgotten that 30-minute briefing they got 14+ years ago.

[abdsp51]

I was one of those Airmen once, which seems to have slipped your mind.

I was ANG, and we knew who CAP were.  A lot of our members were dual members.

Save it with your "crying about it and take steps to fix it."  Easy way out.  I am a civilian, not in the ANG any more, and the closest AFB to me is exactly 272.75 miles from me, in another state.  Except for Coast Guard Stations, there are NO active military installations in my state.

However, YOU are still in the Air Force.  What are YOU doing to "sell us?"

If we were a government contractor trying to sell a good or service to the Air Force, your "marketing" idea may have some merit; i.e., Lockheed trying to sell C-130's or a local construction firm trying to secure a contract to upgrade base housing.

We are not a government contractor.  We have a legal, statutory relationship with the Air Force, as defined by Federal law.  If we did not have that, then there may be something to your insistence on "marketing."

However, that is not the case.

1) Nope didn't slip my mind at all, but you're out of touch with today's AF and Airmen.

2) I'll save it for when you stop making excuses and start doing something about it to fix the issue you perceive. 

3) I talk about to the Airmen in my office and my fellow NCOs outside of the office.  In fact I have built a pretty good working relationship with our ALS here as well have helped to make base entry for CAP much easier.  What have you done besides moan, piss and cry about it?

4&5) Irregardless of what you are trying to do you need to market.  The AF has to market itself to the youth, other services and the elected leadership on Capitol Hill if you quit marketing you lose period. 

Legal relationship or not you still need to market, you think the big businesses that are here today especially those who started small quit marketing no they haven't and won't.

[THRAWN]

One day those skito wings wi be Chiefs

You've hit on one of the major problems with CAP organizationally. There is no planning past the current operational period. Reaching out to airmen at the beginning of their careers sure beats trying to make them understand who we are as the balloon is going up....

[Eclipse]

What have you done besides moan, piss and cry about it?

I'm with you on your other points, but not the "shoot the messenger" responses we get here too often.

Being able to tell a tire is flat doesn't automatically mean you have the skill, ability, or authority to fix it, and
others standing next to you on the side of the road saying "Well have you tried to fix it?" won't get the car back on the road.

The fix for CAP's identity issues need to start at well above the level of the majority of the posters on this forum.