No More 'CAP Flight'?

Started by DC, October 12, 2009, 10:18:59 PM

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PHall

Well, CAP fits the Air Force rules for Call Signs (5 letters or less) while CAP Flight did not.

lordmonar

Quote from: PHall on October 13, 2009, 03:03:05 AM
Well, CAP fits the Air Force rules for Call Signs (5 letters or less) while CAP Flight did not.

??

There are lots and lots of call sights longer then 5 letters.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

PHall

Quote from: lordmonar on October 13, 2009, 03:24:17 AM
Quote from: PHall on October 13, 2009, 03:03:05 AM
Well, CAP fits the Air Force rules for Call Signs (5 letters or less) while CAP Flight did not.

??

There are lots and lots of call sights longer then 5 letters.

Name a few...  With the exact spelling used on the DD175 Flight Plan.
Trust me, they're limited to five letters.

And we're talking aircraft call signs, not Ground Station (i.e. Command post) call signs.

FastAttack

Quote from: DC on October 13, 2009, 02:20:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2009, 12:56:40 AM
Quote from: CAPPAO on October 13, 2009, 12:51:11 AM
"CAP" means Combat Air Patrol in the USAF...

Yes, when its pronounced "KAP".

Which begs the question, is the call sign "CAP", or "SEE-AY-P"?
Probably the former, as the latter would come out 'charlie alpha papa', which is a little cumbersome, IMHO...

it would be nice to know

I am flying a proficiency flight tomorrow.

I am going to Use " CAP" and the number



Short Field

Quote from: PHall on October 13, 2009, 03:36:27 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on October 13, 2009, 03:24:17 AM
Quote from: PHall on October 13, 2009, 03:03:05 AM
Well, CAP fits the Air Force rules for Call Signs (5 letters or less) while CAP Flight did not.

??

There are lots and lots of call sights longer then 5 letters.

Name a few...  With the exact spelling used on the DD175 Flight Plan.
Trust me, they're limited to five letters.

And we're talking aircraft call signs, not Ground Station (i.e. Command post) call signs.

Most seem to be 5 letters or less but there are exceptions.  Check them out:  http://members.optusnet.com.au/extremescan/usaf%20callsigns/uscallsigns.html
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640

Eclipse

Quote from: emertins on October 13, 2009, 03:42:01 AM
I am flying a proficiency flight tomorrow.

I am going to Use " CAP" and the number

I would suggest checking with the FRO or better still Wing DO - we were just directed to hold off using "CAP" until further notice.

"That Others May Zoom"

Nick

Quote from: Short Field on October 13, 2009, 03:46:41 AM
Most seem to be 5 letters or less but there are exceptions.  Check them out:  http://members.optusnet.com.au/extremescan/usaf%20callsigns/uscallsigns.html

I'm offended.  My unit's not on the list.
Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
Texas Wing Staff Guy
National Cadet Team Guy Emeritus

heliodoc

What ?   CAP requests a change and we got the email today from  Salvador, et al and now we are waiting to use it or not use it

CAP  ...... God for back and forth changes

Maybe call the originator of the email for some real fun and clarification.

This is what I remember CAP and now its coming back........ not tooo much on sticking to decisions the first time around..... >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

DG

Interesting.

Maybe now we won't get confused with and called "Compassion Flight" by ATC.

DG

Quote from: DC on October 12, 2009, 10:18:59 PM
Quote from: FL Wing KingEffective immediately,  our FAA call sign has been changed.  "CAP FLIGHT XXX" is now changed to "CAP XXX".  For flight plan filing, CPF XXX  is now CAP XXX.

Does anyone know why the FAA decided to suddenly change our call sign? If someone else is using CAP Flight it might lead to a little confusion.


Maybe the "Compassion Flight" confusion by ATC?

flyguy06

Quote from: DC on October 12, 2009, 10:18:59 PM
Quote from: FL Wing KingEffective immediately,  our FAA call sign has been changed.  "CAP FLIGHT XXX" is now changed to "CAP XXX".  For flight plan filing, CPF XXX  is now CAP XXX.

Does anyone know why the FAA decided to suddenly change our call sign? If someone else is using CAP Flight it might lead to a little confusion.

Where did you see this at? I havent heard anything come down my chain of command .

Eclipse

Quote from: flyguy06 on October 13, 2009, 05:13:00 AM
Does anyone know why the FAA decided to suddenly change our call sign? If someone else is using CAP Flight it might lead to a little confusion.
Its not sudden, its been in the works for decades, it just happened that CAP was finally awarded the call sign.

As to notification, John Salvador sent an email to the Wings, and many passed it downstream.

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

Quote from: Short Field on October 13, 2009, 03:46:41 AM
Most seem to be 5 letters or less but there are exceptions.  Check them out:  http://members.optusnet.com.au/extremescan/usaf%20callsigns/uscallsigns.html

That list is not exactly complete or even remotely up to date. At least not for USAF call signs.

Example: The C-5's at Travis use FRED for their "static" call sign. It's not listed...

Mustang

Single-syllable callsigns are not conducive to effective communications, particularly when weak radios, cockpit noise and cheap microphones enter the equation.  I'd much rather see something like "PATROL" or "CAPPER" etc.  Far less likely to be misunderstood on the radio.

That said, I'm glad to see "CAPFLIGHT" go away...ATC often confused it with "AMFLIGHT" (Ameriflight, a Pt 135 cargo operation) on the radio, and in a busy terminal environment, having to repeat the callsign two or three times for them to get it right really wears thin on their patience and gums up the frequency needlessly.
"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "


MSgt Van

Unless we're on a AF assigned mission where ATC would need to know we need priority handling why not use our tail number? Why the need for a special call sign?

sparks

There is an airfreight operation in my neck of the woods that uses CAP ### as a call sign, short for Capitol, City. I wonder what they will use instead now that Civil Air Patrol is "CAP"? ATC has occasionally gotten confused using call signs in the past when our aircraft and theirs were in the air simultaneously

heliodoc

^^^^

Yep... Aren't they still flying Aero Commander 500 series pistons?

Might have to rework the whole thing and get on the mic and say "Civil Air Patrol 1234" to save the whole confusion... and you can still say it a heavy traffic environment.  Does it say in the FAR and AIM....initial call...... then abbreviation after initial call.  CAP after the initial call.... Air Patrol after the initial call?

Whether or not  CAP "initiated" the request, it just shows the request had to be more thought out and researched.  Can't blame the FAA for everything when CAP has had plenty of opportunities in the past.

But then it just might be just as easy to call out the "N" numbers on the aircraft that is assigned to the airframe and use CAP call signs on SAREX's and AF missions.   After all, our proficiency flights are just another "specialized commercial maneuver(s)" using the National Airspace System and we are still reporting in FAA airspace.  CAP flight Form 5 and 91's are no more special than the FBO aircraft in the airspace.  What would be so hard about using "N" number on CAP aircraft in NON distress, NON emergency functions.....suppose that was never thought of in the beginning, huh?

But this is CAPTalk....let the bellerin' begin >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

a2capt

I would have to imagine that anything done by the Feds on an official notice is something intended to be system wide and that any current use of "CAP" could be something done only on the local or regional level, which could have probably not been done right.

...in other words, hold on to your microphones ... the verbiage could be about to fly.

PHall

Quote from: Mustang on October 13, 2009, 11:44:16 AM
Single-syllable callsigns are not conducive to effective communications, particularly when weak radios, cockpit noise and cheap microphones enter the equation.  I'd much rather see something like "PATROL" or "CAPPER" etc.  Far less likely to be misunderstood on the radio.

That said, I'm glad to see "CAPFLIGHT" go away...ATC often confused it with "AMFLIGHT" (Ameriflight, a Pt 135 cargo operation) on the radio, and in a busy terminal environment, having to repeat the callsign two or three times for them to get it right really wears thin on their patience and gums up the frequency needlessly.

There are a buch of single syllable call signs out there (i.e. MAC, REACH, SLAM, FRED, RRATS), and I haven't heard of any problems.
Not even overseas where the English skills are not the best.

Short Field

Quote from: PHall on October 13, 2009, 05:35:41 AM
That list is not exactly complete or even remotely up to date. At least not for USAF call signs.
If you find a  better source, please post it.  This one is a resource site for people who use scanners.
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640