Flight Helmet for missions?

Started by Charlie82, September 20, 2015, 12:05:55 AM

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Capt Thompson

Luis most of the planes here in MIWG end in CP, and I've noticed a lot of planes in other Wings with the same. Not sure but I think this is an FAA designator for CAP planes.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Check Pilot/Tow Pilot

I assumed that starting with the 182T we asked the FAA if CAP could have CP as the last part of the registration.

However, I am curious if someone actually knows if we asked?

PHall

All new CAP airplanes for about the past 10 years or so have had registrations ending in CP. It's nothing new.

Check Pilot/Tow Pilot

Didn't answer the question.  How did it happen.

SarDragon

Quote from: Mission Pilot on September 21, 2015, 01:19:35 AM
I assumed that starting with the 182T we asked the FAA if CAP could have CP as the last part of the registration.

However, I am curious if someone actually knows if we asked?

I don't know for sure, but it is very likely that someone did ask. Coulda been CAP, or CAP-USAF. Or someone else.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Flying Pig

When I used to do a lot of mountain flying in CA flying canyons looking for weed (law enf) there were a couple times where turbulence caused me to seriously smack my head on the doorframe a couple times.  This was a T206H.  My unit has gone away from the traditional flight helmets for a lot of reasons.  We are wearing these with the integrated Peltor ComTac III headsets.  Flying LE missions and firefighting we wanted something more lightweight but still with a great protection.  These are rated to 75Gs and adhere to the same standards as flight helmets.  The cooling vents in the top are amazing.  Not to mention, if you have never worn a set of Peltors... you should.  You dont fly with the noise canceling on, but they are great for when you have to operate outside a running aircraft (helicopter).  The Peltors do work in aircraft.  We also wear NVGs.  Its pricey... but I figure if the State Dept can fly with them in Afghanistan (thats where I got the idea) it will work just fine for me here.

http://store.teamwendy.com/exfil-carbon-bump-helmet/

Charlie82

Great replies from everybody.  I see a couple posts regarding how helmets may have prevented serious injury to previous mishaps and others who feel they are unnecessary or are a financial burden. All are valid arguments. I do have an expanded thought on the topic.

I'm sure most, if not all private pilots would forgo a flight helmet. In fact, I've never seen a private pilot wear anything other than a headset and seatbelt.  I think of wearing a flight helmet, especially during CAP missions, essential to the safety of the CREW. It has nothing to do with ejecting, looking cool or bailing out.  If I were a passenger on a motorcycle on the interstate, the driver may want to feel the wind at 80mph and not wear a helmet.  I would choose to wear the helmet because of the increased odds of an accident and because of the statistical safety analysis that has been proven.  The same is true with CAP missions on aircraft.  The higher the risk, the higher the odds.

In the Air Force or any of the other branches, safety is drilled into you until you want to puke.  But they're right. From the simple act of taking a ride on a motorcycle to mission oriented tasks, safety is priority over all else.  That doesn't mean a pedestrian should walk around with a helmet.  You match the safety requirements with the risk you are taking. I for one don't want to end up a statistic in a safety briefing.

Flight helmets are an expensive proposition and not all will favor them for a variety of reasons.  I believe they should be authorized as an optional item for the flight crew.  I do not expect CAP or the USAF to pick up the tab or even subsidize the cost.  It would more than likely be something you or I would have to invest in and that's no different from any other uniform requirement. So is there a practical reason for flight helmets in CAP?  I agree there is. 

I am happy to see all the responses.  Each opinion has as much value as the next. 

THRAWN

You're issued one head. Take care of it.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Flying Pig

In the helicopter world, its rare to see a pilot not wearing a helmet.  There are exceptions though, Tours, flying in the gulf, corporate are a few.  Most of that has more to do with passenger comfort.  Its hard to have helmets being swapped between passengers in Vegas and flying out to oil rigs every day.  Corporate.... some gazzilionaire isnt going to put on a helmet in the back of their $13M S-76. 

But anything else, wearing a helmet isnt even a question.  Utility, Fire, LE, EMS, etc.   I often fly airplanes in the same missions that I would fly a helicopter.  Low, slow, before moving to FL, I was always in the mountains flying along ridge lines looking for stuff.  So a helmet made sense.  Plus smacking my head a couple of times because of turbulence wasnt cool.   Would I expect CAP to foot the bill for several hundred helmets that would end up being shared?  #1 No.  #2 YUCK.

Would I fault a crew for showing up with one?  No. 

Live2Learn

Quote from: Thonawit on September 20, 2015, 03:06:55 PM


Go ahead and get lost... I dare you

Couldn't resist the thread hijack...

Cool~  Uniquely suited for low level missions (like strafing and SAR).  With a FLIR package it would be very effective at finding survivors.

Live2Learn

Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on September 20, 2015, 01:21:32 PM
A quick glance over to eBay shows this helmet as about $800 used, which even if they became authorized, is an expense the individual member would have to handle on their own.


I don't think the intent is to make helmets a 'requirement', but rather include them in 39-1 and/or 60-1 as optional uniform items.  Acceptable helmets are available for about $300 or less.  Look at Sport Link, FARO, David Clark, etc.  Some of these have very low profiles (much lower than Alpha Eagle, Gentex, or some of the other high impact protection types that might be essential for high energy crashes such as are likely in helicopters or jets).  Wearing nomex and boots does little good if the aircrew is incapacitated because of head injuries during the critical seconds necessary to exit an aircraft before a fire erupts.  From what I've read the post crash fire stats are pretty grim... about 1 in 3.

JeffDG

Quote from: Live2Learn on September 21, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: Thonawit on September 20, 2015, 03:06:55 PM


Go ahead and get lost... I dare you

Couldn't resist the thread hijack...

Cool~  Uniquely suited for low level missions (like strafing and SAR).  With a FLIR package it would be very effective at finding survivors.

Plus, with the cannon, you could then ensure that there were no longer survivors without the bother of a ground team.   

Live2Learn

Quote from: JeffDG on September 21, 2015, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: Live2Learn on September 21, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: Thonawit on September 20, 2015, 03:06:55 PM



Cool~  Uniquely suited for low level missions (like strafing and SAR).  With a FLIR package it would be very effective at finding survivors.

Plus, with the cannon, you could then ensure that there were no longer survivors without the bother of a ground team.

Another veteran of the ISIS Air Force, I see... ::)

sardak

The attached report is another reason you might want a helmet. When you look down at your feet while flying and see a snake crawling around your foot - your first reaction might not be a calm one.

As for the CP registrations, a group buy of 172s in 1997 were the first to have CP. There are 172s, 182s, 206s, Maules and gliders with CP - 281 total. Thirteen planes bought in 2008 had CA for the suffix. That doesn't explain  how we got CP registrations, but someone had to ask for them. There are non-CAP planes, of types CAP doesn't buy, mixed in with blocks of CAP CP registrations.

Mike

[attachment deleted by admin]

Live2Learn

Quote from: sardak on September 21, 2015, 11:47:26 PM
The attached report is another reason you might want a helmet. When you look down at your feet while flying and see a snake crawling around your foot - your first reaction might not be a calm one.

Mike

Maybe a better reason for "leather boots above the ankle" and "long pants"...  Required PPE on wildfire suppression helicopters under CWN or Exclusive Use contracts. 

Flying Pig

Is there anything that says you cant wear a flight helmet?  I dont recall reading anything that mentioned it either way

Luis R. Ramos

Sardak-

Are you suggesting we use the helmet to bash the crawling snake? With MY luck, I will miss smashing MY foot instead. Then the snake would take advantage. The classic one-two punch!    :-[
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 22, 2015, 01:30:24 PM
Is there anything that says you cant wear a flight helmet?  I dont recall reading anything that mentioned it either way

Not to my knowledge. It's not restricted in CAPR 60-1. The aircraft has to be operated legally per FARs (not busting airspaces, etc.). As long as it has the minimum equipment, it's good. Additional portable equipment is up to the PIC (headset, helmet, sunglasses, diapers...)

THRAWN

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 22, 2015, 01:30:24 PM
Is there anything that says you cant wear a flight helmet?  I dont recall reading anything that mentioned it either way

Nope. I've known pilots that do and many who do not. I know a few GA non-CAP types that do as well. If you can afford it....
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Live2Learn

#39
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 22, 2015, 01:30:24 PM
Is there anything that says you cant wear a flight helmet?  I dont recall reading anything that mentioned it either way

The last CD refresher I did had a short segment on insurance requirements under an AFAM.  The slides presented in the refresher were crystal clear:  If an item of apparel or equipment isn't authorized (explicitly) as part of the CAP uniform than Air Force insurance payouts following an accident are at risk.  I heard this very same message loud and clear during the insurance briefings that were part of MP training at NESA 2010.  I think the briefer was the current or former INWG Commander.  A quick review of CAPR 39-1 indicates only three types of head gear are authorized for the USAF FDU:  They are the flight cap, the knit watch cap (black only), and a CAP ball cap.  Other CAP uniforms also indicate which head gear is acceptable... and none of the uniforms even mention helmets of any kind or purpose.

Which would you rather have, $10,000 of insurance (under the Corporate policy) or $1,000,000 of insurance (under an AFAM)?  It looks to me like the choice is pretty black and white... Or "black side of ledger" vs "red side of ledger".