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CAP IDs

Started by ♠SARKID♠, January 21, 2008, 07:25:27 PM

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Tubacap

^that is the single best suggestion I have heard in a long time.
William Schlosser, Major CAP
NER-PA-001

Al Sayre

Should have emailed it to your WG/CC during New Business...
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

DNall

Not a CAP decision, DEERS equals access to benefits for mil members & their families. CAP is not supposed to get those, which is a problem for some of our purposes.

JoeTomasone

Funny, I've had the opposite experience - the only issue I've ever had getting on base to go to MCSS was the requirement to get a daily vehicle pass - which added between 10-30 minutes to the trip.   Just went by the other day, had all my paperwork ready, and just before I entered the VRF I saw a sign on the door saying that vehicle passes were no longer required.    Went to the gate, presented my ID, and on I went.  Bliss.   Now if only they had more BDUs... 

When I was doing some (non-CAP) work for an extended period of time at a base in another State, I had to go through the daily ritual of getting a personal pass and a vehicle pass.   One day the gent behind the desk at the VRF saw my CAP ID in my wallet as I was getting my driver's license and ask me why I didn't just give him the CAP ID.   I told him that I wasn't there on CAP business, and he just looked at me.  And looked at me.  Then he asked me what date I'd be heading home.   I told him.  He immediately made me a vehicle pass for the entire duration of my stay and told me to present my CAP ID at the gate.   When I gently suggested that I might be a wee bit uncomfortable with that, he made me a personal pass for the same time frame.   His attitude, however, was that as a CAP member, I was wasting his time every day doing the paperwork.

Could he have gotten called on the carpet for it?   Possibly.  Probably?   All I know is that HE sure seemed to think that CAP business or no, I was welcome there.   

Incidentally, the funny aspect of the whole base access thing is that even as a temporary civilian contractor with no CAC card or other ID, I could eat at the Burger King and dining halls, bowl at the Bowling Alley, and shop at the BX (had to get some CD-Rs one day), but I would not be able to do so as a CAP member in uniform.    And yes, I was asked at the BX for my ID and I said that I had none, that I was a contractor doing work on base.   She thanked me and rang me up.




DNall

Dif bases have dif standards, all controlled by base commanders based on their risk mgmt decisions that have everything to do with the units & activities on the base as well as the community & world events. They have to protect their facility, everything else is secondary. There are still plenty of bases that are basically wide open, some in the mid-range, like the one just described that seems more like what it used to be like before 9/11, and then there are some bases where it's quite a bit more restrictive. Sometimes it makes sense & sometimes it doesn't.

Where I work, it's 100% ID & we still use DoD stickers. If you get thru that gate, you can basically drive right onto the flight line where you'll find several billion dollars worth of govt aircraft. There is a CAP unit (not mine) inside that perimeter. They get special DoD-style CAP-specific stickers, which with an ID & DL will get them on. Few issues there. Some places are more strict with seemingly less reason to be.

afgeo4

#85
Quote from: DNall on March 03, 2008, 05:41:44 PM
Not a CAP decision, DEERS equals access to benefits for mil members & their families. CAP is not supposed to get those, which is a problem for some of our purposes.
DEERS is a system that tracks access and benefits. One can be in DEERS and have no access to anything. Just like reservists and guardsmen who aren't on duty have an entry in DEERS, a CAC and along with the CAC, BX/PX priviledges. They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.

That's basically what we're asking for too. Put us into DEERS, issue a CAP specific CAC ID and allow us basic BX/PX privileges. Who's going to get hurt? AAFES runs their shops through profit sales of merchandise. If more people shop, AAFES will be able to provide better services to our troops.
GEORGE LURYE

jb512

Topic related, apparently they keep up with them all the way back to when they were started.  I was a cadet in 1990 - 1991 and came back last year.  I was given my old number, 162XXX although my Mitchell shows up in eservices with no number.  My encampment and an orientation flight are also there, but with no locations.

mikeylikey

Quote from: afgeo4 on March 05, 2008, 05:02:34 AM

DEERS is a system that tracks access and benefits. One can be in DEERS and have no access to anything. Just like reservists and guardsmen who aren't on duty have an entry in DEERS, a CAC and along with the CAC, BX/PX privileges. They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.

That's basically what we're asking for too. Put us into DEERS, issue a CAP specific CAC ID and allow us basic BX/PX privileges. Who's going to get hurt? AAFES runs their shops through profit sales of merchandise. If more people shop, AAFES will be able to provide better services to our troops.

Ummm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago.  When I was in ROTC and drilling with a Army National Guard unit, I got that pink commissary access card that gave me (If I remember correctly) 24 total visits per year, but only 12 blocks to write the date of each visit.  So each block was split in half, and shared 2 dates. 

Oh....everywhere I have been, the DEERS system in found in the RAPIDS Office, and the only reason to visit is to get the CAC.  IF military, then benefits are automatically loaded on the card.  It is totally different from the pre-CAC issued cards, where specific entitlements could be written on the card itself.  Back when I did ROTC summer camp, we were issued green Geneva Convention cards that specifically stated "NO Commissary". 

Speaking to the clerk at the RAPIDS office, they can easily write "No Commissary, no PX, MCSS allowed" on the CAC when created.  There is a 4 line space on the front of the card that can allow for special typing and instructions.

The whole thing is silly.  Especially for those that are now doing the VSAF program.  I would be pissed if I had to wait for 30 minutes at Pass and ID each time I was to volunteer for VSAF duty, because my library card from CAP NHQ is not acceptable. 

There was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it.  If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.
What's up monkeys?

jimmydeanno

Quote from: afgeo4 on March 05, 2008, 05:02:34 AM
They do not have full-time Commissary or TRICARE privileges simply because they're in DEERS.

*pulls out his dependent ID card...*

My wife is a traditional guardsman now and I have commissary privileges.  The "Authorized Patronage" section on the card says, "EXCHANGE, MWR, COMMISSARY"  I don't use any of the benefits (except MCSS) because I live in a state with no taxes anyway so there isn't any benefit. 

As for the medical you are correct, we get TRICARE "With Active Duty Orders for Over 30 Days."  So if she is deployed, goes to tech school, SNCO Academy, etc medical benefits would pick up.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

mikeylikey

^ If you have a Commissary close by, it is well worth it to shop there.  Even though there are no taxes, stuff like meat is far Superior to your local piggly wiggly, and all stores usually have a case lot sale at least once per month where their prices are so much lower than Sam's Club or Costco.  You see at the Commissary you get products for cost + a minimal markup to pay employees.  If you find prices for any item cheaper at a grocery store, you take the item to the Commissary Manager, and he or she has discression to either give it to you for half what you would be paying, or in my case (usually free).
What's up monkeys?

jimmydeanno

I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there.  All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.

On top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )

I do like the case sales but I have this AWESOME meat market down the street that the commissary couldn't even try to compete with in terms of quality and service.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Ned

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there.  All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.


Yeah, those darn old veterans can sure be annoying, can't they?  Worse, some of them are in wheelchairs or have assistance animals.  Shame on them for blocking your access.

Sigh.

Elderly folks -- and especially seniors with disabilities -- have access and mobility issues you and I cannot really imagine.  Age and disabilities limit their ability to enjoy the few privledges and benefits their years of service to our nation have earned them.


Perhaps if you offered to help them get out more often, they wouldn't need multiple carts.  Maybe if more CAP folks dropped by to visit and help them with basic tasks like cooking and cleaning, their personal sanitation and dignity could be improved.

Remember, you and I will be the elderly veterans someday.  I hope nobody is ashamed of me as I use the commissary.

Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Ned on March 05, 2008, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I went to the commissary a few times and while the prices and stuff were nice, I found it really aggravating to shop there.  All the aisles were 1-WAY, it was full of old people who smelled like those FEMA trailers we have and since they only shop once a year they were all dragging around multiple carts.


Yeah, those darn old veterans can sure be annoying, can't they?  Worse, some of them are in wheelchairs or have assistance animals.  Shame on them for blocking your access.

Sigh.

Elderly folks -- and especially seniors with disabilities -- have access and mobility issues you and I cannot really imagine.  Age and disabilities limit their ability to enjoy the few privledges and benefits their years of service to our nation have earned them.


Perhaps if you offered to help them get out more often, they wouldn't need multiple carts.  Maybe if more CAP folks dropped by to visit and help them with basic tasks like cooking and cleaning, their personal sanitation and dignity could be improved.

Remember, you and I will be the elderly veterans someday.  I hope nobody is ashamed of me as I use the commissary.

Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy

Not intended to be mean spirited...and the scent thing was more along the mothball arena than the personal odors...but it appears as though I've said enough.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Hawk200

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PMOn top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )

I don't know how it is now, but baggers at the Comissary used to work for only tips, they didn't get an actual paycheck. No tips for them means they're not getting paid.

Jobs that usually rely on tips for income don't make much more than minimum wage, provided that the employer doesn't claim tip credit wages(which are drastically lower than minimum).

Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMUmmm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago. 

IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty. DEFCOMS was losing money, so they allowed everyone to shop there. Made sense to let everyone in a uniform, whether part time or not, use it.

Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMThere was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it.  If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.

I was out at an AF base last week, and saw one of the CAC readers in the BX. I picked it up. It was worth the 25 bucks to eliminate the annoyance of going in to drill and begging "Please, please, please, can someone log me in on one of the computers so I can change my AKO password?!" I was getting really tired of that. We were told at drill that with the change to require a CAC for password stuff that we would be issued CAC readers. That was late '06. They have yet to materialize.

As for CAP, I would personally buy five of them, take them into the squadron so everybody would be able to use them. I'd only require that they be locked in a drawer or something. It would be far easier to cut someone's access if they get 2B'd or their membership expires.

Not to mention how much easier it would be to log people into a mission base with them. Most of the time, there are a couple to a half dozen computers at a mission base. You could put people's quals on the card as well. No more carrying two or three cards, it could be all on one. Overall, the handiness would probably outweigh the cost in a very short period of time.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 05, 2008, 02:33:01 PMOn top of that I had to wait in line to determine which line I could stand in - then had to pay someone to bag my groceries. (Did you know they look at you funny when you say you'll bag your own :) )

I don't know how it is now, but baggers at the Comissary used to work for only tips, they didn't get an actual paycheck. No tips for them means they're not getting paid.

Jobs that usually rely on tips for income don't make much more than minimum wage, provided that the employer doesn't claim tip credit wages(which are drastically lower than minimum).

That's kind of my point, there are no 'normal' grocery stores that make their baggers work for tips only - it's included in the cost of doing business and they somehow manage to have better or the same level of service for around the same price...
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

DNall

Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMUmmm I do believe reservists and Guardsman began receiving fulltime Commissary benefits about 5 years ago.

IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty. DEFCOMS was losing money, so they allowed everyone to shop there. Made sense to let everyone in a uniform, whether part time or not, use it.
Saw a notice the other day that they're trying to introduce more programs to make commissaries more accessible to guard/reserve, particularly families of deployed soldiers. Don't know what that means exactly, or if they do either yet. 

Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 05, 2008, 06:05:24 AMThere was a push to get a new version of CAC, and each Federal Agency would be involved in it.  If this eventually pans out, NHQ better get off its ass and make sure the membership also gets a piece of it.

I was out at an AF base last week, and saw one of the CAC readers in the BX. I picked it up. It was worth the 25 bucks to eliminate the annoyance of going in to drill and begging "Please, please, please, can someone log me in on one of the computers so I can change my AKO password?!" I was getting really tired of that. We were told at drill that with the change to require a CAC for password stuff that we would be issued CAC readers. That was late '06. They have yet to materialize.

As for CAP, I would personally buy five of them, take them into the squadron so everybody would be able to use them. I'd only require that they be locked in a drawer or something. It would be far easier to cut someone's access if they get 2B'd or their membership expires.

Not to mention how much easier it would be to log people into a mission base with them. Most of the time, there are a couple to a half dozen computers at a mission base. You could put people's quals on the card as well. No more carrying two or three cards, it could be all on one. Overall, the handiness would probably outweigh the cost in a very short period of time.
Picked one up recently myself. I know all fed agencies are going to a CAC/smart card, but not necessarily one that looks anything like the mil cards. Just means the chip inside can be read by shared software.

I know FEMA is also under a mandate to get all emergency responders (incl state/local) into smart cards that verify identity, background check has been done, and quals under their sys/standards. And then that's going to be how you gain access to a disaster area &/or sign into a mission. From what I understand, and I don't know if this is final yet, it's supposed to be agency issued. So fed agency IDs get a CAC-type chip. State/local get state issued IDs w/ same chip. Obviously some money to help them pay for that. We'll see how it all works out.

mikeylikey

^ There is no reason to pay the baggers.  Many grocery stores are moving toward this cost saving measure.  

Trust me, the tips the baggers get at even the smallest Commissary far outweight the minimum wage they would be getting if they were bagging at a big box retailer.  

I live by the DECA system.  It is a true benefit to those who serve this country.  

Quote from: Hawk200 on March 05, 2008, 05:57:49 PM

IIRC, it was longer ago than that. I seem to remember the change back in '98, when I was still on active duty.

No, it is a recent change.  They had huge posters up at most stores I think in 03 or 04.
What's up monkeys?

RiverAux

It will be a cold day in **** before I tip a grocery store bagger. 

Ned

Quote from: RiverAux on March 05, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
It will be a cold day in **** before I tip a grocery store bagger. 

Is there a full moon out or something?

I'm having a little trouble understanding all the hostility directed at the military commissary system.  A system that has been serving AD folks and retirees since the  Civil War era.

The baggers are independant contractors who work for tips, period.  This time-honored system has a couple of terrific benefits.  First and foremost, it allows the commissaries to save money.  Remember, the commissary charges wholesale price plus the 5% surcharge to cover some of the costs.  And in reality, most of the cost of the commissary system is covered by appropriated funds, which is why they can offer the same food as a civilian market at a lower price.  If the baggers had to be the same sort of civil-service employee as the cashiers, stockers, and managers it would cost the system the salaries and benefits of the baggers.

Second, at most bases, the baggers are mostly dependants who are earning a little extra money on the side.  Keeping dependants occupied and earning a little extra money is a good thing.  It is positive for morale and keeps some of the younger dependants out of mischief.


If you don't want to tip the baggers, just bag your own groceries.  No big deal.  They will have enough customers without your contribution.

You might also want to bypass that annoying Girls Scout selling cookies outside the commissary door this time of year.  It should be a "cold day in * * * *" before you purchase Somoas or Thin Mints.


Sigh.

Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy

RiverAux

Never been to a commisary, and probably never will.  Thats not the point.  I'm not going to tip somebody who should be getting paid fully by their employer.  Unfortunately, we're seeing more and more places in our culture where tipping is expected and I don't like it.  Call me a grinch, but there it is.