Salutations...

[PORed]

One thing that I have noticed is that some enlisted don't/won't salute CAP Officers under the Grade of Captain.   They did stand at a fair resemblance of Attention.  Also, military personnel are not required to salute us.  They are not prohibited from doing so, though.  That is one of the peculiarities of the CAP/Military relationship.

I know the CG Aux rank is different, but when I was in boot camp we had them walking around base. We where instructed to not salute them being they where not commisioned officers in the armed forces. But we where also told to treat them with respect as you would an officer, greeting them, and being courtious and polite when speaking to them. I have carried this over to CAP when I am in CG uniform I don't salute a CAP officer, or any Cadet organization officer being they are not commisioned. But like I said before, I still treat them with respect.

[Timbo]

^ A salute is a sign of respect, and a courteous greeting.  Why not just salute them, and say "hello".

Going out of your way not salute, is just disrespectful.

I bet you are even the guy that makes it a point to correct others than may have "mistakenly" saluted a CAP Officer.



 

[Ned]

I have carried this over to CAP when I am in CG uniform I don't salute a CAP officer, or any Cadet organization officer being they are not commisioned.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that these folks are not commissioned?  As a Coastie yourself, you surely know that a whole lot of CAP officers hold federal commisions from current or prior service in one of the armed forces or USPHS.

And how would you even begin sorting the wheat from the chaff on organizations that you are not familiar with -- like other service auxiliaries, SDFs, or uniformed federal agencies that wear officer-like insignia?

Not to mention the uniformed services of foreign allies.  I'd hate to have to keep track of which of those guys hold exactly what type of commissions, assuming they even have commissions in the first place.

I'm just not sure that someone's opinion of whether someone else has a commission is a workable standard for exchanging military greetings.



Thank you for your service.  It truly sets you apart.

Ned Lee

[PORed]

You are right they may be a commissioned officer in one of the armed services, but I don't know unless they are in that uniform. It is a sign of respect to salute a commissioned officer when they are in civilian clothing, you are in uniform, and you know they are an officer. If I am unaware of their commision, I don't know to salute them when they are out of their uniform. I don't salute other auxiliaries, State Defense Forces or federal agencies. The only other service that I would salute other then a armed service officer is a Public Health Service or NOAA Corps officer, they hold Navy Reserve Commisions. Yes, a salute is a sign of respect for a commissioned officer, if I was to salute all people with military officer insignia I would salute Police Department and Fire Department Lieutenants and Captions. So unless you have been through a military commissioning program such as OCS or a federal Academy you don't deserve a salute. Paying dues to a civilian organization that lets you wear military officer rank doesn't grant you that privilege. To salute a volunteer would take away from the meaning of that salute to a commissioned officer who spent 4 years getting a college degree in the real word or a federal academy and what ever commissioning program to earn it. 

[PORed]

^ A salute is a sign of respect, and a courteous greeting.  Why not just salute them, and say "hello".
Going out of your way not salute, is just disrespectful.
I bet you are even the guy that makes it a point to correct others than may have "mistakenly" saluted a CAP Officer.

Or I could say hello, I am not blowing the person off. They have not earned the right to be saluted by a military service member. I give the greeting of the day and am courteous and respectful. My wife is a commissioned officer, she attended a federal academy and graduated with a Naval Reserve Commision, that earned her the right to be saluted. Her first salute was a very big deal being it took her 4 years of schooling and a year a sea to earn that commision. Paying your yearly CAP dues and passing the background check does not equate to that. And yes, when interacting with a volunteer or cadet organization that allows its civilian members to wear military officer rank insignia I do instruct my sailors that they are not to be saluted. This is not just CAP, but USCG AUX and other similar organizations.

[Ned]

. To salute a volunteer would take away from the meaning of that salute to a commissioned officer who spent 4 years getting a college degree in the real word or a federal academy and what ever commissioning program to earn it. 

So you wouldn't salute an former NCO that went through OCS?

Or someone who has earned a federal commision but only has a two year degree?

Or someone who earned a battlefield commission?

Or any of the officers in an allied armed force that didn't go to college for four years?


I don't disagree with your basic premise that there is something fundamentally different between a CAP officer and a federally-commissioned officer who is subject to involuntary dangerous duties, but I'm just not sure that your personal standard of who does and who does not have a commission based on what they happen to be wearing and your personal  knowledge of that organizations background is a workable standard for exchanging greetings.



(And, BTW, would the world end if you did salute a police chief or fire officer?  The folks that put their lives on the line every day for the rest of us?)

It's just a greeting, for Goodness sakes.

[PORed]

Ned, I salute all commissioned officers, my CWO who doesn't have a college degree and my CO who has so many different degrees that I am fairly certant that is where most of my taxes have gone to pay for  . I agree the world wouldn't end if I cranked off a salute to a person who is not a commissioned military officer. I just was trying to impress that a CAP officer is not a commissioned military officer, and therefore should not expect the courtesies honored to them. If a military service member salutes you groovy, if they don't oh well, you aren't a military officer.Now if I am in my CAP SSgt uniform I do salute CAP officers, I am a member of that rank structe when I have my CAP uniform on.  As a Coastie when I have to wear my Dress Blues on I have gotten saluted in the past, "Chief, you don't have to salute I am just a 2nd Class" or it could just be that the NAVY guys where acknowledging the superiority of the Coast Guard, lol

[PORed]

(And, BTW, would the world end if you did salute a police chief or fire officer?  The folks that put their lives on the line every day for the rest of us?)
It's just a greeting, for Goodness sakes.

In that vein all military members should be saluted then, from E-1 to O-10. It is a greeting reserved for commisioned military officers. CWO - O-10 and MOH winners.

[Ned]

[CAP officers] should not expect the courtesies honored to them.

On this, we can certainly agree.

Again, thank you for your service.

Ned Lee

[Timbo]

I don't salute other auxiliaries, State Defense Forces or federal agencies. The only other service that I would salute other then a armed service officer is a Public Health Service or NOAA Corps officer, they hold Navy Reserve Commisions.

First and I may be totally, wrong but, the NOAA and PHS are "Uniformed Services", one of seven, just not the "Armed Variety".  So they receive a Commission from the President in their respective service, just like Army, Navy, MC, AF and CG do.  

Second, Many State Defense Forces Officers are in fact "Commissioned Officers" of their State, receiving a Commission form the Governor, just like most National Guard Officer, difference being most National Guard Officers have their Commissions Federally Recognized.  I know in a few States where that get the SDF Officers a salute from National Guard Members. 

So you just typed that you only salute Officer that are only Federally Recognized Officers of the Armed Services.  OK.......

If we want to get technical, we can say being CG, you are neither military nor are your Officers real Officers, unless they happen to be transfered to the Department of the Navy during wartime.  

I hold both a State and Federal Commission.  One from my Governor and one from the President (signed by the Secretary of the Army, for him of course).  How far do we take this, "I only salute this group of Officers"??  That is a bad attitude most likely learned from bad training instructors in Basic training.  

Get a copy of the "Armed Forces Officer" on line from the DOD publishing site, or pick up a copy of one of the Services "Officers Guides, or ask you wife what constitutes a salute between people.  

Bad Form.  As a CAP (and CGAUX member??) you know what service as either means, and you still don't want to salute you fellow members......OK.  IF we meet, I will let you know I hold a Commission in the Armed Forces, and will expect nothing but you to stand at attention even in CAP uniform for me.    

[PORed]

Ned on this we agree, as a former CAP cadet, I truly appreciate all CAP volunteers efforts. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be the man I am today, and I mean that truly. Volunteer service is not without its benefits, they just might not be the ones you expect.

Thank you for making a difference in peoples lives.

[PORed]

Timbo, sorry but you are wrong, the USCG is a military branch all the time, we only fall under USN control in time of war and have not since WWII been under USN control.

The five uniformed services that make up the Armed Forces are defined in 10 U.S.C. § 101(a)(4):

" The term "armed forces" means the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. "

The Coast Guard is further defined by 14 U.S.C. § 1:

" The Coast Guard as established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times. The Coast Guard shall be a service in the Department of Homeland Security, except when operating as a service in the Navy.
PHS and NOAA hold USN reserve commisions and are called up to USN service in time of conflict.  If I am unaware of a commision while of a CAP member in a CAP uniform, , and I am in my military uniform there is nothing that says I grant them the honors granted a military officer. Sorry, but, CAP Officers are not commissioned in the US Armed Forces.

[Timbo]

^ You can check out the USPHS and NOAA websites, the applications are for "Commissions in those respective services"...........respectively.  AS I don't personally know members of either commissioned corps, you may totally be right, that they receive a USN Reserve Commission, but I just don't think so.   

[Eclipse]

I am going to an ANG base this weekend for some training and I will be wearing the BBDU... am I going to have to be saluting people when I get there? How formal is this practice? Who? CAP? USAF officers? I haven't thrown a salute in over thirty years...

Four months, 72 responses and 1800+ views for this?

You salute anyone on base showing a grade higher than yours, and return every salute initiated by someone else.

And if any of you are thinking about it more than the above, you just don't get it.

[PORed]

For NOAA Corps I know it is a USN reserve Commision, but I was going off conjecture for PHS Sir.

[RiverAux]

I know the CG Aux rank is different, but when I was in boot camp we had them walking around base.

CG Aux members don't actually hold any rank at all.  The insignia is just an indication of the highest elective or appointive office that they have held in the CG Aux. 

As to your boot camp experience...CG Aux members are generally required to take off their office insignia when augmenting at CG units (such as those Auxies that teach at boot camp), however it isn't unusual for the person in charge of the CG unit to tell the Auxie to go ahead and where their office insignia anyway.  Now, if an Auxie is just visiting a base for some temporary purpose they will probably keep their insignia, especially with the ODUs since that is sewn-on only now. 

[winterg]

So unless you have been through a military commissioning program such as OCS or a federal Academy you don't deserve a salute.

I don't think you're really getting the gist of the salute.

And it is only my opinion but, I think it is wrong to teach cadets NOT to salute appointed officers of vollunteer service organizations.

Just my two cents.

[AlphaSigOU]

When in doubt, pop one off! 

[Eclipse]

And it is only my opinion but, I think it is wrong to teach cadets NOT to salute appointed officers of vollunteer service organizations.

+10

Sea Cadets, ACA, Young Marines, whatever...

You see the grade, salute and move on...

[Trung Si Ma]

Salute them all - there may be snipers around