CAWG CC Fired

[DNall]

CAP is not a Government entity.  We're a corporation.

Congress can replace our National Commander just as readily as they can replace the CEO of any other corporation.  If you were to have  a letter writing campaign, it would need to go to the Board of Governors... not Congress.

The problem with that is you're talking about govt gpvt appropriated funds that should be in an acct that requires accountability checks to ensure it is spent as directed by congress & AF, versus in a less controlled acct for corporate funds that can be more easily raided.

Other than micromanagement in the extreme, my concerns lean mostly to my understanding that  CAWG was moving to a new accouting system. I don't know if it was the full wing banker solution or a group based system, but there was something going on as I recall. That & stepping in before the deadline to fix the problem. Even if she should have ultimately been relieved, doing so before it is fixed means it won't be addressed till the temp guy comes on & he may not get lots of cooperation. Now if she missed the deadline or refused to comply, then by all means, and if she did comply & then judgement after the fact was that it was too serious to take a chance in teh future, then again by all means move on. However, it is highly irresponsible to jump the gun & micromanage situations & people to the detriment of the unit & org.

[SAR-EMT1]

I want a full report on this, I want TP to issue a written concise vision statment, I want to know why!  And Ill probably find out... in the afterlife 

[TankerT]

a Squadron CC can only have their membership terminated by their Region CC.)

Got to throw the BS flag on that one....Region commanders have 100+ more squadrons -- they are not involved in hiring squadron commanders and aren't involved in firing them either.  If you think I'm wrong, to paraphrase Jerry McGuire, "SHOW ME THE REGULATION!"

First, you are taking the quote out of context.  A Region CC is only the approving authority for a Squadron CC's termination for Wings without Groups.  If the Wing has Groups, the Wing CC is the approving authority.

Show you the regulation??? Well... lets see... could it be... the regulation titled "Membership Termination"   (Come on... it's not hard to find...)

For the record, check out CAPR 35-3 (Membership Termination). Specifically, Attachment 1.  (Attachment 1 is titled "Approving Authority for Membership Termination for Cause.")

Sure... wave the BS flag... but... before you do... be familiar with the regulations...

If you're too lazy to look it up... fine... but why be a jerk to the rest of us for your ignorance of the regulations?  I say that deserves the flag.

[SAR-EMT1]

Fantastic lady....and such a good-natured gal that I even rested on her shoulder during a banquet in a funny moment*.

Cadets, look away; three members of a chain of command (Sq, Grp, Wg)  are about to engage in light-hearted, fun, "PDA" - so watch out.   

Edit: Here's a better view.



* = If you want to know what we were laughing at, PM me.

Having looked at the picture I wonder: what pray tell is the badge-type device under the nameplate of that uniformed Major?

[Pylon]

Having looked at the picture I wonder: what pray tell is the badge-type device under the nameplate of that uniformed Major?

Looks like the Air Force Recruiting Service badge to me.  Authorized for wear IAW CAPM 39-1, table 6-2, item 14.

[DNall]

Which refers you to 6-5 & if not listed there then the AF reg for conditions of wear, by which you'll find it's a duty (not qualification) badge, authorized while serving on recruiting duty, So just like you can't wear an SF badge even if you are an SF in the reserves at the same time because you are not serving SF duty while in CAP.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[TankerT]

The problem with that is you're talking about govt gpvt appropriated funds that should be in an acct that requires accountability checks to ensure it is spent as directed by congress & AF, versus in a less controlled acct for corporate funds that can be more easily raided.

Other than micromanagement in the extreme, my concerns lean mostly to my understanding that  CAWG was moving to a new accouting system. I don't know if it was the full wing banker solution or a group based system, but there was something going on as I recall. That & stepping in before the deadline to fix the problem. Even if she should have ultimately been relieved, doing so before it is fixed means it won't be addressed till the temp guy comes on & he may not get lots of cooperation. Now if she missed the deadline or refused to comply, then by all means, and if she did comply & then judgement after the fact was that it was too serious to take a chance in teh future, then again by all means move on. However, it is highly irresponsible to jump the gun & micromanage situations & people to the detriment of the unit & org.

Dealing with government appropriated funds doesn't mean the solution is the government.  (I work for the government... getting politicians involved always doesn't get the right thing done, it sometimes gets the political thing done.) 

I think that one of the goals of the Wing Banking Program is designed to actually help provide better accountability of the funds, just like you are pointing out. 

Also, we don't know why she was relieved before the solution was in place.  Maybe the CA Wing CC didn't want to do it the NHQ way.  We don't know.

Could the decision to relieve her be a conspiracy?  Could be.  (Hey, we all like a good conpsiracy in America.)

Could the decision to relieve her be because of a legit reason we'll never know because of CA push-back on this issue?  Could be.

Fact is, when it comes to something like this, we probably won't know.

But, NHQ is getting tight on financial accountability.  They are taking it pretty seriously.  (A lot of it because we have Government Funds involved.)  That, I think, is a good thing.  (I'm not a financial professional, so I can't comment if it is the best way to handle it or not.)

[Monty]

Fantastic lady....and such a good-natured gal that I even rested on her shoulder during a banquet in a funny moment*.

Cadets, look away; three members of a chain of command (Sq, Grp, Wg)  are about to engage in light-hearted, fun, "PDA" - so watch out.   

Edit: Here's a better view.



* = If you want to know what we were laughing at, PM me.

Having looked at the picture I wonder: what pray tell is the badge-type device under the nameplate of that uniformed Major?

I was waiting for the first person to turn this into a uniform thread by noticing my badge!   

Seriously though......for the badge watchers, it's - specifically - an AFRS Senior Recruiter Badge (Silver Badge.)  There are three different sorts.  Rookie Cookies, Silver Badges, and Gold Badges.  Only way one gets to keep it is to retire with it or separate with it on their DD Form 214.

Now back to the thread...and back on topic.

[Major_Chuck]

Do I renew my membership or not?  Watching the actions of TP I am inclined not to  until he is no longer in charge.

[RiverAux]

     Re: CAWG CC Fired
« Reply #22 on: Today at 07:07:23 PM »   

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Quote from: RiverAux on Today at 06:53:58 PM
Quote
a Squadron CC can only have their membership terminated by their Region CC.)

Got to throw the BS flag on that one....Region commanders have 100+ more squadrons -- they are not involved in hiring squadron commanders and aren't involved in firing them either.  If you think I'm wrong, to paraphrase Jerry McGuire, "SHOW ME THE REGULATION!"


First, you are taking the quote out of context.  A Region CC is only the approving authority for a Squadron CC's termination for Wings without Groups.  If the Wing has Groups, the Wing CC is the approving authority.

Show you the regulation??? Well... lets see... could it be... the regulation titled "Membership Termination"   (Come on... it's not hard to find...)

For the record, check out CAPR 35-3 (Membership Termination). Specifically, Attachment 1.  (Attachment 1 is titled "Approving Authority for Membership Termination for Cause.")

Sure... wave the BS flag... but... before you do... be familiar with the regulations...

If you're too lazy to look it up... fine... but why be a jerk to the rest of us for your ignorance of the regulations?  I say that deserves the flag.

Okay, my mind translated "termination" into relieving of command, which was the issue we were discussing.  You are correct a Region Commander is needed to terminate the membership of a squadron commander in a Wing without Groups. 

However, the issue at hand is not terminating the membership of a commander but instead it is relieving them of command.  A Wing Commander can both hire and fire their squadron commanders at will.   

but why be a jerk to the rest of us for your ignorance of the regulations?

No need for name calling...

[JCJ]

There is zero tolerance for financial irregularities in CAP right now, even in the absence of missing funds, because of some significant problems in the not-so-distant past.  This is completely supported by the BOG, as well as the national leadership.

[Smokey]

CAWG is in the process of going to the wing banker system.  It is a transition period right now.   

The wing finance officer is a CPA.  The wing finance officer has been assisted by a squadron finance officer who has managed a large squadron finances (larger probably than some wings). CAWG has over 5,000 members.

I seriously doubt there has been any deliberate mismanagement or nefarious activity.  My belief is probably due to the transition to the wing banker system for a very large wing.  This ain't easy stuff folks.  As the warning says..."Don't try this at home."

As a side note....we are in the middle of tax season and maybe the wing finance officer is up to her ears in handling clients and was slow in making are the switches necessary for the new wing banker system.

[TankerT]

No need for name calling...

Fair enough.  My apologies.  (Sincerely.)

[RiverAux]

No problem.  I probably didn't really need to go all Tom Cruise either. 

[Monty]

CAWG has over 5,000 members.

Uh...minus a bit less than 2,000 friend (CAWG has 3,083 seniors and cadets, as of a second ago.)

But your point is still relevant. 

[Smokey]

OK I knew it was in the thousands somewhere 

I will fall on my sword in  a moment .....no that won't be necessary-----I see the Maxwell black van out fro....

[lordmonar]

Okay just to be absolutely fair here......no one has the full picture about what is going on in CAWG.  Everyone is so quick to jump on the conspiracy theory that TP is going for another power grab for his nefarious purposes.

Is it possible that the National Commander did not have full faith and confidence in the CAWG/CC's ability to perform her assigned duties?  Is it just possible that in consultation with the PCR they decided to remove her from command and as a good leader he made the decision and the call himself instead of delegating it?

Everyone is so ready to see the dark side of the National Commander that no one, even for a minute, thinks that maybe he had reason....reason you would agree with....but he is too busy to go around and explain each and every decision to us peons.

This rant is especially aimed at all you guys who want CAP to be more like the USAF.  I was in a Group who's commander got fired after only 2 months on the job.....and we never....and I mean never got the whole straight story on why he got fired.  Lots of RUMINT but never the true story.

Bottom line here.  CAWG CC got fired.  Unless someone who works for the PCR/CC or National CC wants to step forward with their notes from the conference call.....let's just move on.

[PHall]

Pat, some of us do have a pretty good picture on what went on.
And it's not good. (Or even legal maybe.)

[Major Lord]

Okay, aprapos of nothing at all, can CAP members collect and submit a petition to Congress to redress problems in CAP without being keel-hauled for mutiny?

Capt. Lord

CAP is not a Government entity.  We're a corporation.

Congress can replace our National Commander just as readily as they can replace the CEO of any other corporation.  If you were to have  a letter writing campaign, it would need to go to the Board of Governors... not Congress.

I am aware of CAP's legal status. Our complaint system requires that we go through the chain of command ( IG, etc) to resolve personnel complaint issues, but the Regs specifically permit contacting our representatives. My question goes to whether we can collectively submit petitions to Congress. Sending a petition to the BOG would almost certainly be an out of policy usurpation, as well as being pointless...

[lordmonar]

Pat, some of us do have a pretty good picture on what went on.
And it's not good. (Or even legal maybe.)

Maybe...but then let's get it out on the table.  All I hear is subtle jokes about TP grabbing power again!  I get tired of it.  If you know something....make your accusation and report it to the BoG and let's git him booted!  I know that I know nothing of the situaiton.  I also know that it makes not difference to me here in NV wing.  But as CAP officers, at some point we have to show loyalty to our elected officals even if we don't like or agree with his policies and leadership style.

All I know is the CAWC CC was fired...and it had something to do with money being in the wrong accounts (not missing).  I don't know that much about wing finance but that may be enough to fire someone over...even if they already started to fix the problem.....my kid messes up the house....sure they got to clean it up...but they are going to get grounded as well!

If there is something else going on.....get it out here.