View of CAP from the uninformed?

[SansGroove]

I am new to CAPTalk...  so please don't take this post as me griping or trolling - because am not.  I was just curious what kind of reactions other senior members get when coworkers, neighbors, friends...   find out you are involved in CAP?  Its seems as though many times when I bring up my CAP membership I get some odd looks.  I try to take the opportunity as a teaching one and show my enthusiasm for the organization.  I give a quick brief on the history and current mission of the CAP and talk about some of the great stuff that goes on in my state and nationwide.  There is still a percentage of folks that look at us as adults playing soldier when (as we all know) that is just not the case. 

I am a bit ashamed to say that there have been a couple of times I almost felt a bit embarrassed as those around me poked fun at the organization and my involvement.  Sure CAP does some things that make me roll my eyes from time to time but I know its worthwhile.  Heck - I even remember a time when I took my son to his first meeting that I looked  at some of the senior members wearing BDU's and AF styles uniforms complete with beer bellies...    At the time I placed them in the same stereotype I had of a Cub Scout leaders at the time.  So I am not upset at anyone for looking at us odd...  as I once kinda held the same misconception.  I also realize that any issues I have are mine to deal with.  This is such a great organization - I just wish the general public understood us better than what they do.

Am I the only one who has had these experiences?  Or are these mine and mine alone?

Best Wishes!
SG

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Remember that, unfortunately, those "uninformed" include a good chunk of the United States Air Force who don't know anything about us.

I have gotten better treatment from Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Coasties than from Airmen, especially the younger set.

At 45 years old, I gave up caring too much about what other people think of me, let alone if I'm in CAP.  One phrase I sometimes use is "What you think of me is none of my business."

I have never really had anyone from the general civvy street community give me any grief about CAP.  It's usually older people saying "I didn't know you still existed!"

The worst I've gotten from a civilian is "you are basically just the Boy Scouts wearing Air Force uniforms."  My response was, "And, sir, you are basically uninformed and choose to remain so (I'd already talked to this joker for a few minutes about CAP), and I have better things to do," and departed.

Once at an airshow about 15 years ago some civilian was poking fun when a cadet saluted me, and when I saluted a senior CAP officer...jerks like that aren't even worth my headspace.

What does, frankly, bug the hell out of me is the general Air Force attitude of barely benign indifference toward us.

[NCRblues]

I am new to CAPTalk...  so please don't take this post as me griping or trolling - because am not.  I was just curious what kind of reactions other senior members get when coworkers, neighbors, friends...   find out you are involved in CAP?  Its seems as though many times when I bring up my CAP membership I get some odd looks.  I try to take the opportunity as a teaching one and show my enthusiasm for the organization.  I give a quick brief on the history and current mission of the CAP and talk about some of the great stuff that goes on in my state and nationwide.  There is still a percentage of folks that look at us as adults playing soldier when (as we all know) that is just not the case. 

I am a bit ashamed to say that there have been a couple of times I almost felt a bit embarrassed as those around me poked fun at the organization and my involvement.  Sure CAP does some things that make me roll my eyes from time to time but I know its worthwhile.  Heck - I even remember a time when I took my son to his first meeting that I looked  at some of the senior members wearing BDU's and AF styles uniforms complete with beer bellies...    At the time I placed them in the same stereotype I had of a Cub Scout leaders at the time.  So I am not upset at anyone for looking at us odd...  as I once kinda held the same misconception.  I also realize that any issues I have are mine to deal with.  This is such a great organization - I just wish the general public understood us better than what they do.

Am I the only one who has had these experiences?  Or are these mine and mine alone?

Best Wishes!
SG

The American population (in general) is very uneducated and unresponsive to anything that does not affect their daily lives.  People involved in general aviation or the military are vastly more interested in CAP than your next door neighbor type that works at (insert company name here).

These experiences happen to all of us. Heck, i have run across people who think that any military person who is not infantry is just playing "army guys". We as an organization can only do so much. Americans are just uninterested in things. (heck, look at our voter turnout rates....the nation gets excited if 50% turn out to vote on election day...pretty sad)

[Senior]

I don't worry about what others think of me or what I do.
I don't talk to much about CAP at work because most people don't care or don't want to understand.
I am involved in CAP because it serves the community and is something bigger
than myself.  Honestly, a lot of people can't get beyond themselves or facebook
or twitter or anything that is useless in society.

[RADIOMAN015]

  There is still a percentage of folks that look at us as adults playing soldier when (as we all know) that is just not the case. 

I am a bit ashamed to say that there have been a couple of times I almost felt a bit embarrassed as those around me poked fun at the organization and my involvement.  Sure CAP does some things that make me roll my eyes from time to time but I know its worthwhile.  Heck - I even remember a time when I took my son to his first meeting that I looked  at some of the senior members wearing BDU's and AF styles uniforms complete with beer bellies...    At the time I placed them in the same stereotype I had of a Cub Scout leaders at the time.  So I am not upset at anyone for looking at us odd...  as I once kinda held the same misconception.  I also realize that any issues I have are mine to deal with.  This is such a great organization - I just wish the general public understood us better than what they do.

Am I the only one who has had these experiences?  Or are these mine and mine alone?

Best Wishes!
SG

Hey, I get some kidding about CAP at work also (one time some of the office staff put paper hats on that said CAP on it) .  However, my employer donates items to CAP every year :clap:.

As the unit PAO/public relations guy I've got some very good local TV & newspaper coverage and there's got to be a balance about how you present a senior member versus a cadet member.    For senior members leave out the term "officer" and instead insert adult mentor to assist the cadets development (and than list the elements of the cadet program) and than also talk about the other CAP missions.  The prime emphasis should be on the cadet program.   Also hide all those old grey haired, overweight CAP "officers"  from the press :angel:

Unfortunately we DO have members that came into CAP so they could play army.  Just talk about taking away those AF type uniforms and they are all ready to quit    It's really too bad.  It isn't the uniform that the senior member wears but their attitude and willingness to assist in the development of cadets.

I think you will find that the general public really doesn't care about CAP one way or the other .  The key thing to remember is to ensure we properly use at all times  the equipment, vehicles, and aircraft that the AF/taxpayers bought for us to perform our "Missions for America", so as to avoid ridicule.   While in ANY CAP uniform, treat others the way you want to be treated, and don't go overboard on the military aspects of the program while out in the general public.  Remember we are the Civil Air Patrol         
RM

[Hawk200]

Very people know I'm Civil Air Patrol, and only three people in the Guard know I'm CAP and my rank. I don't tell people about it anymore than I tell them I'm Guard. If a subject of discussion comes up related to what I've done in the military or CAP, I'll probably mention it if asked how I know about the subject. Most of the time it's when people talk about something aviation or military related that it comes up. Otherwise, I usually don't mention either.

[CAP4117]

Granted, I'm still new at this, but I think it does a disservice to all the other missions of CAP to hide the fact that we call senior members "officers" and instead refer to them as "adult mentor to assist the cadets development." I really don't think we should "hide" the important aspects of our mission and culture, and ESPECIALLY not our members. Just because they are, as you put it, "old grey haired, overweight" doesn't mean that they aren't valued assets to CAP. I'm hoping there was sarcasm there, and I just missed it?
I understand that there's a tension between those who want CAP to be more part of the Air Force and those who want it to be more of a corporate thing, but I think that we can respect both those points of view without obscuring or downplaying our traditions from the public.

[NCRblues]

  There is still a percentage of folks that look at us as adults playing soldier when (as we all know) that is just not the case. 

I am a bit ashamed to say that there have been a couple of times I almost felt a bit embarrassed as those around me poked fun at the organization and my involvement.  Sure CAP does some things that make me roll my eyes from time to time but I know its worthwhile.  Heck - I even remember a time when I took my son to his first meeting that I looked  at some of the senior members wearing BDU's and AF styles uniforms complete with beer bellies...    At the time I placed them in the same stereotype I had of a Cub Scout leaders at the time.  So I am not upset at anyone for looking at us odd...  as I once kinda held the same misconception.  I also realize that any issues I have are mine to deal with.  This is such a great organization - I just wish the general public understood us better than what they do.

Am I the only one who has had these experiences?  Or are these mine and mine alone?

Best Wishes!
SG

Hey, I get some kidding about CAP at work also (one time some of the office staff put paper hats on that said CAP on it) .  However, my employer donates items to CAP every year :clap:.

As the unit PAO/public relations guy I've got some very good local TV & newspaper coverage and there's got to be a balance about how you present a senior member versus a cadet member.    For senior members leave out the term "officer" and instead insert adult mentor to assist the cadets development (and than list the elements of the cadet program) and than also talk about the other CAP missions.  The prime emphasis should be on the cadet program.   Also hide all those old grey haired, overweight CAP "officers"  from the press :angel:

Unfortunately we DO have members that came into CAP so they could play army.  Just talk about taking away those AF type uniforms and they are all ready to quit    It's really too bad.  It isn't the uniform that the senior member wears but their attitude and willingness to assist in the development of cadets.

I think you will find that the general public really doesn't care about CAP one way or the other .  The key thing to remember is to ensure we properly use at all times  the equipment, vehicles, and aircraft that the AF/taxpayers bought for us to perform our "Missions for America", so as to avoid ridicule.   While in ANY CAP uniform, treat others the way you want to be treated, and don't go overboard on the military aspects of the program while out in the general public.  Remember we are the Civil Air Patrol         
RM

RM, we are CAP OFFICERS. Not every single adult member in cap is a "adult mentor" to cadets. I refer to myself as a "cap officer" when representing my wing. People see the rank, and understand it....heck even the local PD and FD have officer grades. I am all for calling SM's "cap officers" for the general public. To many terms confuse people...

oh, RM...did you know we are the CIVL air patrol? just thought i would remind you....

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

RM, we are CAP OFFICERS. Not every single adult member in cap is a "adult mentor" to cadets. I refer to myself as a "cap officer" when representing my wing. People see the rank, and understand it....heck even the local PD and FD have officer grades. I am all for calling SM's "cap officers" for the general public. To many terms confuse people...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

oh, RM...did you know we are the CIVL air patrol? just thought i would remind you....

I keep needing reminders on that one.

[wuzafuzz]

As the unit PAO/public relations guy I've got some very good local TV & newspaper coverage and there's got to be a balance about how you present a senior member versus a cadet member.    For senior members leave out the term "officer" and instead insert adult mentor to assist the cadets development (and than list the elements of the cadet program) and than also talk about the other CAP missions.  The prime emphasis should be on the cadet program.

Cadets are a hugely important mission to CAP.  However many of us don't work closely with cadets; I spend a fair amount of time explaining that to folks outside CAP who think we are ONLY a cadet program.  Some of us are from senior squadrons with no cadets.  That's is CAP 101.  Presumably you are in a squadron with cadets and that's your focus as a PAO.  However please don't go telling the world CAP is ALL about cadets.

Also hide all those old grey haired, overweight CAP "officers"  from the press :angel:

Come on man, celebrate diversity.     "Remember we are the Civil Air Patrol."

I think you will find that the general public really doesn't care about CAP one way or the other .  The key thing to remember is to ensure we properly use at all times  the equipment, vehicles, and aircraft that the AF/taxpayers bought for us to perform our "Missions for America", so as to avoid ridicule.   While in ANY CAP uniform, treat others the way you want to be treated, and don't go overboard on the military aspects of the program while out in the general public.  Remember we are the Civil Air Patrol         
RM

Remember, the Civil Air Patrol is a military auxiliary.  No, that doesn't mean we are in the military, but we don't need to hide from our roots either.  Honor the relationship by conducting ourselves with dignity and by being respectful of our military relationship and history.  That applies no matter what uniform we wear or what part of CAP we may choose to specialize in.

[RiverAux]

When the subject has come up one way or another I'll give a very, very brief description of what CAP is and that is almost always the end of the conversation.  Curiously, even my bosses at work haven't been terribly interested in what I'm doing when I sometimes take off work for days at a time for CAP or CG Aux duty. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Granted, I'm still new at this, but I think it does a disservice to all the other missions of CAP to hide the fact that we call senior members "officers" and instead refer to them as "adult mentor to assist the cadets development." I really don't think we should "hide" the important aspects of our mission and culture, and ESPECIALLY not our members. Just because they are, as you put it, "old grey haired, overweight" doesn't mean that they aren't valued assets to CAP. I'm hoping there was sarcasm there, and I just missed it?
I understand that there's a tension between those who want CAP to be more part of the Air Force and those who want it to be more of a corporate thing, but I think that we can respect both those points of view without obscuring or downplaying our traditions from the public.

Well, yes & no as far as sarcasm.   What's the target audience when you have press coverage    Actually, I try to select the best people that I feel will represent our organization. Some examples:  One member is in his late 40's/early 50's with grey hair, slim (runs daily) and is a great speaker.  The other is a young lady in her mid/late 20's (who literally grew up in CAP) that made it her goal to loose weight so she could be in the AF style uniform, also an excellent speaker.  I've also used a few other male members in their 20's in AF style uniforms (including BDU's).
All of these members are in the AF style uniform and have the proper outer wear and meet/exceed the grooming standards.  Cadet wise, it's been ES night activities (with BDU's) and lots of pictures & the cadets on the color guard team.    I'm too ugly and old to put on TV or take a picture of and prefer to remain in the background and just get the press there and make it happen for the organization :angel:

I do think sometimes the press gets a bit confused with all the different uniforms (thus my view to put the organization into a distinct field uniform) and again if an adult gets too gung ho with the CAP Officer bit (talking with someone in the press with a military background/experience) it likely will be discounted in the final writeup or result in some confusing quotes, that the general public WILL NOT understand.   The news is about what has been accomplished at that point in time and not about uniform wear (history) or CAP's core values.         

There's a fair number of 60+ year olds and some overweight senior members who are VERY dedicated for MANY,MANY years and I might add don't really want to be in the lime light with the press, and it's counter productive to force anyone to do this.

I personally don't think there's any tension on the Auxiliary vs Corporation orientation.  I personally don't see any significant changes in the non field uniform options in the future.   
RM     

[HGjunkie]

[Майор Хаткевич]

I remember this one. Lt. Murphy is now a Captain.

[Eclipse]

I am new to CAPTalk...  so please don't take this post as me griping or trolling - because am not.  I was just curious what kind of reactions other senior members get when coworkers, neighbors, friends...   find out you are involved in CAP? 

Overwhelmingly positive from anyone who's opinion I respect, especially when they know the details.  PD, FD, and military personnel, especially,
tend to be impressed when at some point they realize that you are standing next to them, working just as hard, on your own time, and paid for your own equipment, uniforms, and for the privilege of serving.

One thing to bear in mind is that not only do most Americans have no clue about the military in general, and many have mixed views about what they think they know (support the troops but end the war(s) knowing little about either, etc.).  Many more believe the military in general is either "someone else's problem", "a necessary evil", or "all that is wrong with man" ((*sigh*)).

Also, there is no longer a "volunteer spirit" in this country.   Far too many people believe everything is "somebody else's problem" because they pay their taxes.  So whether it's PTA, CERT, the ARC, or just giving their neighbor a hand, unless there is something in it for them, they'd just as soon watch
Desperate Housewives as get off the couch and volunteer for anything.

So add those up and you get your reactions.

Just like I always tell people internally who do things "right" (uniforms, courtesies, etc.), if you do it right and long enough, eventually people
will get the right idea.

Bottom line, anyone making an issue of someone's volunteer service to their country isn't worth the time to care about, and likely has issues of their own.

[RADIOMAN015]

As the unit PAO/public relations guy I've got some very good local TV & newspaper coverage and there's got to be a balance about how you present a senior member versus a cadet member.    For senior members leave out the term "officer" and instead insert adult mentor to assist the cadets development (and than list the elements of the cadet program) and than also talk about the other CAP missions.  The prime emphasis should be on the cadet program.

Cadets are a hugely important mission to CAP.  However many of us don't work closely with cadets; I spend a fair amount of time explaining that to folks outside CAP who think we are ONLY a cadet program.  Some of us are from senior squadrons with no cadets.  That's is CAP 101.  Presumably you are in a squadron with cadets and that's your focus as a PAO.  However please don't go telling the world CAP is ALL about cadets.

Well, the press/TV stations focus the story on what is currently happening, so that is what I support.  Also on any press releases do have the standard tag line and it is up to the newspaper on whether they use that tag line, edit portions of it, or come up with their own ending.   

Last year I did work up a proposal and got permission to fly a TV news reporter in a CAP aircraft on simulated ES missions we perform in our wing.  HOWEVER, we ran out of time, I needed to plan a better script for this.   I'm not sure if I can get this done this fiscal year (since I want to have multiple flights, for TV stations and also the local paper editor and also the managing publisher for that newspaper and other newspapers that cover close to 50 communities in the state's western and central counties areas, with potential reach to over 300,000 readers (in order to get more regional coverage for CAP)).

Historically in our wing we were "secret squirrels" even about practice ES exercises, and in my opinion this hurt the wing tremendously because we basically were out of the public eye for ANY ES activities.   That thinking has changed.  The Wing did issue a press release on the tornado disaster relief photo recon assistance, and unfortunately it didn't get published by any of the regional/local media.  The National Weather Service experts were also flown by CAP and NWS on one of their website did thank CAP for our assistance.    Another thing that is hampering some good PR efforts in the ES area is the policy that any photo recons completed belong to the sponsoring agency, and we can't use any photo directly for press releases.  (My feeling is you take another camera and the photographer just snips a few extra shots at a different angles, as long as it is for CAP use --- what's the big deal ).

So as the PAO, I do have some plans to highlight senior members involved in emergency services, BUT sometimes it just take a lot longer to get things done, due to my personal limitations, and other limitations that I have no control over
RM   

       

[CAP4117]

Remember, the Civil Air Patrol is a military auxiliary.  No, that doesn't mean we are in the military, but we don't need to hide from our roots either.  Honor the relationship by conducting ourselves with dignity and by being respectful of our military relationship and history.  That applies no matter what uniform we wear or what part of CAP we may choose to specialize in.

  :clap:
RM, I wasn't suggesting that we force anyone to speak to the press. Personally, I prefer to stay in the background, too. But, if a situation comes up where we have media coverage at a CAP event, I don't think it would be a good idea to hide people from the cameras if they're doing their job professionally, just based on appearance.
And, sorry if I got the quotes wrong, I'm still learning how to do it 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I remember this one. Lt. Murphy is now a Captain.

Unfortunately, I've ran into this sort of attitude from the USAF...not so bluntly stated as the cartoon, but there nonetheless.

My response would be along the lines of "First of all, I'm not your 'son,' so don't call me that.  So, all these 'lieutenants' in the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Marines, USPHS, NOAA, Police and Fire Departments don't count, right?  Not to mention your State's Lieutenant Governor and all the Leff-tenants in the Armed Forces of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland?  Only the piece of paper saying that you are a bona fide LOOTENANT counts?"

And, unfortunately, Eclipse's take on "volunteerism" going down the pipe in this country is all too close to the mark.

[RADIOMAN015]

Remember, the Civil Air Patrol is a military auxiliary.  No, that doesn't mean we are in the military, but we don't need to hide from our roots either.  Honor the relationship by conducting ourselves with dignity and by being respectful of our military relationship and history.  That applies no matter what uniform we wear or what part of CAP we may choose to specialize in.

RM
  :clap:
RM, I wasn't suggesting that we force anyone to speak to the press. Personally, I prefer to stay in the background, too. But, if a situation comes up where we have media coverage at a CAP event, I don't think it would be a good idea to hide people from the cameras if they're doing their job professionally, just based on appearance.
And, sorry if I got the quotes wrong, I'm still learning how to do it 

I was only kidding BUT no one is going to force a member to talk with the media.  As the PAO I can select who I feel will do the best job for us IF I get too many volunteers, BUT that really hasn't happen.

There is quite a diversity in CAP:  age, physical features, occupations (when not volunteering), type of uniform worn, etc, etc... and there's many members that have served for many, many years for countless number of volunteer hours, and they do need to be respected for their efforts. 

I really wish locally we had done a better job from day one on the history of the squadron, group (former), and even wing.  I know that a lot of squadrons have disappeared since I was a cadet & short time senior member in the mid/late 1960's.  I've got a document I found with Mr. Google's help dated 1/1/2000 & seven squadrons (not including the AFROTC units that were in some special program) as well as all the groups listed are no longer active units.  There were quite a bit of consolidations.  I haven't looked at historical documents to see how the membership totals changed from the 1960's through 2010.

I think the key issue is just feel good about what you personally contribute to Civil Air Patrol.  If your co workers and friends don't real care or joke about it, don't worry about it.
RM

[Smithsonia]

Let me help with some words of information. Not for us but when we encounter the skeptical or uninformed. I'll pose this in a series of questions and answers.

Q - What's with the uniform?

A - The uniform is order. When we arrive at a disaster, search, or event there is chaos. We may walk down a street after a tornado. We are here to help. We can bring you to safety.
     We will take care of you. We will work through this with you. We can be trusted. The uniform says that. In a parking lot at an Air Show the uniform says come to this spot.       Don't try to park in the wrong place. Don't follow the errant car going off the path. You can trust us. Come to the uniform. We are here to help.

Q - You all playing soldier?

A - the military isn't about the characters in most of the war movies where every uniformed person carries a rifle. Instead for every rifleman there are 10 to 15 behind the scenes support troops. We are support. But we are support for frontline response units. We are supply. We are given a task. We will accomplish this task. We are not playing soldier we are supporting this effort. We will feed, water, drive, do paperwork, set up tents, make signs, and help with communications/Public Information/ and logistics. We are here to do anything for anybody that gives us a duty.

We are part of a democracy. We live in a free society. But, inside that society there are tasks which can not be accomplished by voting or rule by the majority. Those tasks are called mission critical. Our police, fire, emergency services, and hospital ERs are organized to catch a bad guy, put out a fire, relief in a disaster, or save a life. When working on a
mission the best way to do all of these things is to have a command structure where some people give orders and some people follow orders. When we are on duty we are in this hierarchical structure so that we can bring order from chaos.