Maj Gen Pineda Misconduct Investigation Hits the News

[Earhart1971]

Amazing . . . . sounds like a bunch of 10 year olds at lunch recess.  Sorry didn't mean to insult 10 year olds.  Don't feel sorry for anyone involved in this mess.

Unfortunately, due to the possible reprecussions of this, we are all "involved in this mess".    What gets me is Mr. Hayden's thirst for vengence/justice/the last word without any thought to the organization as a whole.  The only thing that matters in his  diatribe is the accusation against our National CC. 

It's a result of Commanders asking people to "resign", and not allowing  due process.

And from what I heard they really torqued off Hayden.

[RiverAux]

Based on the AF Times story this has now gone international as part of a United Press International story.....

[Major_Chuck]

Based on the AF Times story this has now gone international as part of a United Press International story.....

:: Hangs head down in shame and slaps forehead ::

[sandman]

Link?

[BillB]

The Air Force Times link is on page 4 of this thread

[NoNamesPlease]

Why won't Skip Munger print my letter to the 'editor' of the News of The Force? You can read it for yourself and decide:


Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:19 AM
To: NewsoftheForce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Pineda Investigation

Dear "Editor":

I find it almost comical that as much weight is being given to the accusations against the National Commander of Civil Air Patrol. Your publication's 'Exclusive Report' is a new low, even for you.

The accuser (or 'victim', as he appears to be spinning his story), Ray Hayden, is - by his own admission - a liar at best, and a cheating liar at worst. He has either disgraced the rank that he held by agreeing to cheat on a test in exchange for a promotion, or is a complete liar trying to 'even the score' with people that he blames for his own incompentcy and ineptness.

Doesn't anybody besides me think that it's pretty ironic/funny/sad that he was the Professional Development officer for Florida Wing while admitting to breaking all the rules that he was supposed to be enforcing for his own personal gain? Does that sound like a normal thing to do?

Rather than face a formal hearing that could (and probably would) have resulted in his termination from the organization, he chose to run away and quit instead of facing up to his actions and explaining them.

What a moral compass for our youth this man is!

Anyone who is on the Florida Wing Yahoo List saw the freaky emails that this guy was sending out before and after the PDW that he ran in Boca Raton in October where he verbally attacked a very well respected squadron commander from Daytona Beach over one of his 'rules'.

Gee, Ray, did you help -that- commander with his tests also? Guess he has to go also, huh? 

What a crock.

I can't believe that anyone takes Ray Hayden seriously - the guy's got some serious issues, and his actions both at the PDW and in this comedy underscores the guy's need to get some professional assistance.

You know, I've taken tests for my business before at the same time as a colleague, and yes, we've either sat for them at the same time or sent them in at the same time since they were going to the same place and there was a better chance that both of them wouldn't get lost. The dates on the Pineda test are not the smoking gun that Ray thinks they are.

Pineda has no doubt made enemies as he rose to his current position. I think that the same can be said about many leaders in office (Hello: George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc?). He's also been in the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for over 35 years according to the Miami Herald article. He's been a cop since the time that Richard Nixon was President = that's a long time, Ray.

If he was as dirty as you claim he is with your acusations, it's more than likely that he wouldn't have made it three and a half decades as a law enforcement officer in a state agency.

And I don't think that unsubstantiated threats from someone seeking self-gratification like Ray is deserves anywhere near the amount of attention that they're getting.

When the investigation clears Pineda, Ray and the rest of the Pineda naysayers can go join the folks on the Daley Plaza grassy knoll and following Lady Di 's car with your own conspiracy theory, as you're certain to call his vindication a whitewash, etc.

(note that today's NOTF already is starting that spin with it's 'anonymous sources in the USAF not giving the CAP IG investigation any credibility for impartiality....they know that Pineda will be cleared and are already starting to plant further seeds of doubt).

Pathetic situation. And when this is all over, Ray, you're only going to be remembered as a very insignificant bump in the road (or maybe a fly hitting the windshield) in the career of a dedicated leader who always has put the organization first in his priorities (unlike yourself).

A Proud Florida CAP Member

[Major_Chuck]

Oh I can answer the reasons why "NOTF and Skip Munger" won't publish your letter.  He's not a REAL news media.  He fashions his Yahoo Group/List Server as some alleged news organization when all he does in fact is post press releases and reports from legitimate news organizations.

There is no 'staff' of writers, editors, and a publisher outside of him sitting in his basement with a cardboard sign on the door that says 'Skip Munger, Publisher and Editor Emeritus, News of the Force'.  NOTF is nothing but a blog where he can post and distribute what he wants.  He gets a few of his 'friends' and likeminded individuals to write editorials that reflect his viewpoint and proclaims himself as a bonafide news outlet.

Write something really slamming CAP, Tony Pineda, or allege a huge Cadet Abuse scandal and he'll gladly put it up for you.   He lives for that kind of stuff.

[NoNamesPlease]

Based on the AF Times story this has now gone international as part of a United Press International story.....

Well, a search of the UPI website (www.upi.com) doesn't turn up any CAP stories in the past 90 days. Maybe you can share with us where you are seeing UPI International Coverage of this sideshow?

[Lancer]

Based on the AF Times story this has now gone international as part of a United Press International story.....

Well, a search of the UPI website (www.upi.com) doesn't turn up any CAP stories in the past 90 days. Maybe you can share with us where you are seeing UPI International Coverage of this sideshow? Or is the UPI spin just more fuel for the fire?

http://news.google.com/ is your friend...

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061226-102150-9401r

Create a News Alert, http://www.google.com/alerts?hl=en&t=1 with the term "Civil Air Patrol" and you too can be 'In the loop'.

[JohnKachenmeister]

No Names:

That was a great letter. 

Maybe not from NOTF's perspective, but great anyway.

[NoNamesPlease]

Thanks for the UPI link (I'm so darn computer illiterate!) and the comment. I have no vested interest in this mess other than in supporting the CAP and it's missions, all of which are much bigger than any one individual.

[CAPLAW]

Sandmand , I could have not said it any better, as far as Skip Munger goes, I can remeber when I was a cadet in Florida Wing and this guy was always lokking for a conspiracy theory.  Can any other member recall the good old days of Major Munger in the Florida Wing.

[Skyray]

No Names:

That was a great letter. 

Maybe not from NOTF's perspective, but great anyway.

I am going to have to weigh in with Kachenmeister.  The letter points up an aspect of this incident that has been unreported until now.  Skip has a bone to pick with Pineda, as do I.  It is very difficult to be objective when you have irrefutable evidence one way or the other, and Skip allowed his knowledge of Pineda to obscure the fact that his source was less than laudable.  Major Munger (see I remember) was the Florida Wing Administrator while Pineda was pulling some of his less glorious politics.  He attempted to bully Munger into signing a letter of responsibility for the fact that the Taylor Fealey cadet abuse matter went unreported and uninvestigated.  Shortly after Skip refused to sign this lying document, he was a "disgruntled former member."  Is it any wonder that he carries some bias?

Back to Hayden.  When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.  Hayden is typical of the type of sycophant with which Pineda surrounds himself.  His criteria for appointment is not efficiency or capability, but personal loyalty to Pineda.  Pineda has apparantly never had any military leadership training where they teach you that loyalty goes both ways.  If he had paid attention in that Staff College that is the subject of this thread, he would have seen the concept liberally treated.  Hayden became a liability, and Pineda dumped him.  If Nixon had just dumped the "plumbers" we would have a very different idea of his presidency.

[flyguy06]

I dont know wheather or not NOTF is crdible or not, but I do know that a credible paper like the Miami Herald and AF Times wouldnt even touch the story and risk their reputations if their sources werent legit.

Also about the comment about this Ray Hagen dude . Is CAP really that serious that he would go to these lengths just to get a man fired from a non paying volunteer organization? Its not like he;s gonna loose any money over it. The comment was made that rather thanface a formal hearing that could result in termination of membership. Ok. Ans termintaion of membership means what? He doesnt have to pay expensive Vanguard prices anymore

[NoNamesPlease]

I dont know wheather or not NOTF is crdible or not, but I do know that a credible paper like the Miami Herald and AF Times wouldnt even touch the story and risk their reputations if their sources werent legit.

Well, the Herald and the AF Times had legit sources for the fact that there is an investigation going on, which is in itself news.

That point is not being disputed - it's the whole idea of whether there's anything to the investigation that is the issue.

[Major_Chuck]

Even the most reputable of news media can report the wrong information, be mislead, or manipulated by their own internal forces.

The Air Force Times, Miami Herald and so on are reporting the accusation and the investigation which is now a fact where Mungers reporting is more accusation.

[flyguy06]

Oh, I agree. I am not defending this Munger guy or Hayden. I dont even know them

[Skyray]

Oh, I agree. I am not defending this Munger guy or Hayden. I dont even know them

I don't know Hayden, other than that by his own statements he has admitted to both cheating and lying.  You can log me in as defending Munger.  He showed me, and asked my opinion of, the absolutely ridiculous written "confession" that Pineda gave him to sign at the 1998 Atlanta BOG meeting right before Bowling exercised his bruised authority by reappointing Pineda Florida Wing Commander.  Shortly after he refused to sign it, he was a former member.

[Major Carrales]

If only it were possible to get to those levels and keep free of the petty politics.  Mind you, some degree of so-called "politics" is expected in every organization; but this continued "Roman Empire" like in fighting might lead to that ultimate realization...

"For the past 1500 years everyone has sought to be like Rome. These people miss the obvious most important lesson of Rome. It Fell!"   

-J.E. Carrales 1997 in a speech to fellow students at Texas A&M Kingsville

[Psicorp]

I see the whole issue, all of them really, as being mere politics.  As Robin Williams said, "Diapers and politicians should be changed often, and for the same reason."   I only get my feathers ruffled when political discord gets media attention and makes us all look bad.  It affects our relationship with the Air Force, Congress, our local agencies, impacts our ability to perform our missions, negatively impacts our recruiting/retention efforts, and all that affects us financially.

My father hated CAP even when I was a cadet; he thought (and sometimes rightly so) that it's just a bunch of people who want the benefits of being/looking Air Force without any of the responsibility, and questioned our worth...and he was Active Duty Air Force.  

NOTF, at least, is somewhat balanced. Mr. Munger does occassionally post the good things we do, which brings it back to that whole taking credit (by proxy) when things are good and standing back and slinging poo when something goes wrong.  That may or may not be true, but it sometimes sure seems that way.  

I have no idea what it is that Mr. Hayden is really after.  My guess is just to have the last word in a long standing dispute.  Is that what he wants to teach our Cadets, that it's okay to do the wrong thing when it's for personal gain but the minute fecal matter starts to hit the rotary air impeller shout out, "Oh my that's a pretty skeleton you got in that closet! Look at this everyone!!"?   He gets to squeak out with just being a "former member", while our National Commander gets a double investigation.  That doesn't seem right, regardless of what did or didn't happen.

Bah...I'm done with this issue.  I asked my Magic 8 Ball if we're making more noise about this than will ever be said/done after the investigations and it said, "Most Likely".