Do you think CAP is part of the military and why

[Flying Pig]

They do carry guns.....usually lots of them!  hen I was in the Marines our Corpsman carried weapons also.   We often said our Corpsman was the best Marine in the Platoon! He rocked!

[flyboy53]

IMHO, CAP is a CIVILIAN auxialiary that is "ASSOCIATED" with a military service.

Uniforms, regulations, D & C, C & C, etc. do not by themselves make one "MILITARY".

CAP IS NOT ARMED. Any member of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard when push comes to shove can have someone shove a rifle in their hands and tell them to "GO FIGHT!".That is what what makes the difference between military and civilians. The UCMJ, US Code, Geneva Convention, regs and manuals are imperfect instruments. That's why they have JAG lawyers to interpret and argue them. But anyone who joins the "ARMED" services should not be surprised if they are told to go to war and fight. That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat. You've heard the saying, "Every Marine a rifleman." Well, include soldiers, sailors, airman, and coasties.

CAP is not military.

Point taken. But you have your facts wrong. Every member of the Reserve or National Guard is a CIVILIAN unless they are on active duty. Also, there are eight uniformed services in our Country, three more than the five traditional "armed" services and those 'unarmed" uniformed services include the U.S. Public Health Serivce, the National Oceanic and Astmospheric Administration and the U.S. Merchant Marine. 

Finally, there was a time when CAP carried guns, bombs and depth charges.

[davidsinn]

IMHO, CAP is a CIVILIAN auxialiary that is "ASSOCIATED" with a military service.

Uniforms, regulations, D & C, C & C, etc. do not by themselves make one "MILITARY".

CAP IS NOT ARMED. Any member of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard when push comes to shove can have someone shove a rifle in their hands and tell them to "GO FIGHT!".That is what what makes the difference between military and civilians. The UCMJ, US Code, Geneva Convention, regs and manuals are imperfect instruments. That's why they have JAG lawyers to interpret and argue them. But anyone who joins the "ARMED" services should not be surprised if they are told to go to war and fight. That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat. You've heard the saying, "Every Marine a rifleman." Well, include soldiers, sailors, airman, and coasties.

CAP is not military.

Point taken. But you have your facts wrong. Every member of the Reserve or National Guard is a CIVILIAN unless they are on active duty. Also, there are eight uniformed services in our Country, three more than the five traditional "armed" services and those 'unarmed" uniformed services include the U.S. Public Health Serivce, the National Oceanic and Astmospheric Administration and the U.S. Merchant Marine. 

Finally, there was a time when CAP carried guns, bombs and depth charges.

There are only seven services. The Merchant Marine is not one of them but may be called to active duty as a Naval Auxiliary during a time of war.

[flyboy53]

IMHO, CAP is a CIVILIAN auxialiary that is "ASSOCIATED" with a military service.

Uniforms, regulations, D & C, C & C, etc. do not by themselves make one "MILITARY".

CAP IS NOT ARMED. Any member of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard when push comes to shove can have someone shove a rifle in their hands and tell them to "GO FIGHT!".That is what what makes the difference between military and civilians. The UCMJ, US Code, Geneva Convention, regs and manuals are imperfect instruments. That's why they have JAG lawyers to interpret and argue them. But anyone who joins the "ARMED" services should not be surprised if they are told to go to war and fight. That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat. You've heard the saying, "Every Marine a rifleman." Well, include soldiers, sailors, airman, and coasties.

CAP is not military.

Point taken. But you have your facts wrong. Every member of the Reserve or National Guard is a CIVILIAN unless they are on active duty. Also, there are eight uniformed services in our Country, three more than the five traditional "armed" services and those 'unarmed" uniformed services include the U.S. Public Health Serivce, the National Oceanic and Astmospheric Administration and the U.S. Merchant Marine. 

Finally, there was a time when CAP carried guns, bombs and depth charges.

There are only seven services. The Merchant Marine is not one of them but may be called to active duty as a Naval Auxiliary during a time of war.

It is still a uniformed service of our Country with it's own academy...and by the way, I wouldn't go telling the Merchant Marien veteran sitting in a VA hospital that he isn't a veteran. I have known Merchant Marine officers with Navy Reserve commissions and one recently that was commissioned as an ensign. He was actually discharged by the Coast Guard as a Merchant Marine Marine officer.

[ol'fido]

IMHO, CAP is a CIVILIAN auxialiary that is "ASSOCIATED" with a military service.

Uniforms, regulations, D & C, C & C, etc. do not by themselves make one "MILITARY".

CAP IS NOT ARMED. Any member of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard when push comes to shove can have someone shove a rifle in their hands and tell them to "GO FIGHT!".That is what what makes the difference between military and civilians. The UCMJ, US Code, Geneva Convention, regs and manuals are imperfect instruments. That's why they have JAG lawyers to interpret and argue them. But anyone who joins the "ARMED" services should not be surprised if they are told to go to war and fight. That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat. You've heard the saying, "Every Marine a rifleman." Well, include soldiers, sailors, airman, and coasties.

CAP is not military.

Point taken. But you have your facts wrong. Every member of the Reserve or National Guard is a CIVILIAN unless they are on active duty. Also, there are eight uniformed services in our Country, three more than the five traditional "armed" services and those 'unarmed" uniformed services include the U.S. Public Health Serivce, the National Oceanic and Astmospheric Administration and the U.S. Merchant Marine. 

Finally, there was a time when CAP carried guns, bombs and depth charges.

Huh? PHS, NOAA, MM(?) may be uniformed,but they are NOT MILITARY nor do they function as such. NG and Reserves may be civilians when they are not active but we are civilians all the time. And CAP was a different animal in WWII.

You might be uniformed but if you are not ARMED, you are not military.

[ol'fido]

That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat.

Non-concur.

Bandsmen, yes.  At need they can be ordered to put down the trumpet and pick up an M-16.

Chaplains are not combat personnel under the Geneva Conventions. (Protocol I, 8 June 1977, Art 43.2)  Captured chaplains are not considered Prisoners of War (Third Convention, 12 August 1949, Chapter IV Art 33) and must be returned to their home nation unless retained to minister to prisoners of war.  The United States does not require Army, Navy (who minister also to Marine and Coast Guard personnel) or Air Force chaplains to bear arms.

However, Chaplain's Assistants can be required to bear arms.

Combat medics, like Navy Corpsmen, can and do bear weapons.

Physicians can be issued weapons for defensive purposes only.

I will grant you Chaplains.

[Flying Pig]

NOAA and PHS have no military role and will never be called upon to serve in any military capacity.  Although they wear uniforms, the Merchant Marines are not a uniformed service. 
Merchant Marines are only granted veteran status if they were activated and served in war time.  If not activated, they are not considered veterans and have no VA benefits. 
The term "uniformed" has a specific definition in this discussion.  Just because you wear a uniform doesnt make something a "uniformed" service.  Even when they are activated they fall under the Naval Auxiliary. The Merchant Marines as an organization do not become a "service".

And I would agree, going back to talking about CAP dropping bombs is history.  Like what was said above, that CAP doesnt exist anymore.

Lastly, uniformed service doesnt = armed forces/military.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

NOAA and PHS have no military role and will never be called upon to serve in any military capacity.  Although they wear uniforms, the Merchant Marines are not a uniformed service. 
Merchant Marines are only granted veteran status if they were activated and served in war time.  If not activated, they are not considered veterans and have no VA benefits. 
The term "uniformed" has a specific definition in this discussion.  Just because you wear a uniform doesnt make something a "uniformed" service.  Even when they are activated they fall under the Naval Auxiliary. The Merchant Marines as an organization do not become a "service".

And I would agree, going back to talking about CAP dropping bombs is history.  Like what was said above, that CAP doesnt exist anymore.

Lastly, uniformed service doesnt = armed forces/military.

I beg to differ, about the MM, MM Sailors do achieve veteran status after being in the open international waters, and even get a separate addition if they move into foreign waters for a period of 30 or more days.

[billford1]

IMHO, CAP is a CIVILIAN auxialiary that is "ASSOCIATED" with a military service.

Uniforms, regulations, D & C, C & C, etc. do not by themselves make one "MILITARY".

CAP IS NOT ARMED. Any member of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard when push comes to shove can have someone shove a rifle in their hands and tell them to "GO FIGHT!".That is what what makes the difference between military and civilians. The UCMJ, US Code, Geneva Convention, regs and manuals are imperfect instruments. That's why they have JAG lawyers to interpret and argue them. But anyone who joins the "ARMED" services should not be surprised if they are told to go to war and fight. That includes medics, chaplains, bandsmen and anyone of the 90% of the military whose jobs do not include direct combat. You've heard the saying, "Every Marine a rifleman." Well, include soldiers, sailors, airman, and coasties.

CAP is not military.

Point taken. But you have your facts wrong. Every member of the Reserve or National Guard is a CIVILIAN unless they are on active duty. Also, there are eight uniformed services in our Country, three more than the five traditional "armed" services and those 'unarmed" uniformed services include the U.S. Public Health Serivce, the National Oceanic and Astmospheric Administration and the U.S. Merchant Marine. 

Finally, there was a time when CAP carried guns, bombs and depth charges.

There are only seven services. The Merchant Marine is not one of them but may be called to active duty as a Naval Auxiliary during a time of war.

In war the U.S. Merchant Marine Sailors support the Navy and the other branches of the Military. My Father was a Merchant Marine Officer through the duration of WWII. Merchant Marines engaged in armed combat with enemy forces and were killed in bigger numbers as a percentage of their total force than any of the other Military branches. My Father served as gun crew aboard the ships he was on. If you wonder why an Officer would serve on a gun crew it was because there were fewer Merchant Marines on the cargo ships that were the targets of choice for enemy sub marines. Merchant Marines had to know how to do every job aboard ship. You're only right in the sense that after the war The U.S. Merchant Marines were considered better paid than other service members. They received no Veteran's Benefits.

[RRLE]

10 USC 101 Definitions

(4) The term "armed forces" means the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.

(5) The term "uniformed services" means -
          (A) the armed forces;
          (B) the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; and
          (C) the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service.

[nesagsar]

As a side note: The USPHS does carry out military duties at times. Particular officers can be and often are assigned to military units as medical support personnel. Those officers are also sometimes assigned to provide medical service to law enforcement in our prisons. I know of a particular USPHS officer who has carried a gun while working at BoP in the past as well as being currently assigned to 2 Army units, the US Naval Academy, and an Air Force unit. He is also a Major in CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As a side note: The USPHS does carry out military duties at times. Particular officers can be and often are assigned to military units as medical support personnel.

They also provide medical services for the Coast Guard.  In that capacity, they wear CG uniform with their USPHS insignia.

But two things are correct:

The CAP that hung bombs under those little yellow airplanes and had airfield guards is very unlikely to come back.

There are seven uniformed services, five of which are armed:
U.S. Army
U.S. Navy
U.S. Marine Corps
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Coast Guard

Two are usually not (I won't say "never"):
NOAA Commissioned Corps
U.S. Public Health Service

As to the USMM...I'll let someone else go to Kings Point, New York and tell the Commandant that he's not military:

http://www.usmma.edu/admin/leadership/commandant.shtml

There are two officially-recognised auxiliaries to military forces that I know of:
Civil Air Patrol (USAF)
U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary

We, and the USCGAux, are civilian noncombatant volunteers who assist our respective military services and operate in a paramilitary manner.

[FARRIER]

We, and the USCGAux, are civilian noncombatant volunteers who assist our respective military services and operate in a paramilitary manner.

This is almost to the letter, minus the addition of the Coast Guard, what a couple of my senior members, having sat down with me, when I was a cadet, defined us as. Even though there isn't anything officially in writing that defines us as paramilitary, that's the way we, to this day, operate.

That definition has kept me level headed for years. Drifting, its the Seniors that can't keep that dual identity straight in their heads that gets us in trouble.

Respectfully,

[flyboy53]

As a side note: The USPHS does carry out military duties at times. Particular officers can be and often are assigned to military units as medical support personnel. Those officers are also sometimes assigned to provide medical service to law enforcement in our prisons. I know of a particular USPHS officer who has carried a gun while working at BoP in the past as well as being currently assigned to 2 Army units, the US Naval Academy, and an Air Force unit. He is also a Major in CAP.

Yes, and it is usually USPHS officers who have the role of veterinarians on military bases, inspect the food quality of the dining hall and sometimes treat military patients in hospitals. That's the way it was at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. Also, as an A/D AF member, stationed in Mass., I was sent to the USPHS hospital for further treatment back in the 1980s.

As far as NOAA, in WW II, it was these individuals, under a sub-agency called U.S. National Geodetic Survey, who were the map makers in WW II....several of their officers were killed and two of their ships hit or destroyed in kamikaze attacks near Bataan.

One other side note about NOAA, I was amazed to see a NOAA P-3 Orion with an anti-sub boom in back on the flightline at Elmendorf back in the late 1970s....curious.

[SarDragon]

As a side note: The USPHS does carry out military duties at times. Particular officers can be and often are assigned to military units as medical support personnel. Those officers are also sometimes assigned to provide medical service to law enforcement in our prisons. I know of a particular USPHS officer who has carried a gun while working at BoP in the past as well as being currently assigned to 2 Army units, the US Naval Academy, and an Air Force unit. He is also a Major in CAP.

Yes, and it is usually USPHS officers who have the role of veterinarians on military bases, inspect the food quality of the dining hall and sometimes treat military patients in hospitals. That's the way it was at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. Also, as an A/D AF member, stationed in Mass., I was sent to the USPHS hospital for further treatment back in the 1980s.

As far as NOAA, in WW II, it was these individuals, under a sub-agency called U.S. National Geodetic Survey, who were the map makers in WW II....several of their officers were killed and two of their ships hit or destroyed in kamikaze attacks near Bataan.

One other side note about NOAA, I was amazed to see a NOAA P-3 Orion with an anti-sub boom in back on the flightline at Elmendorf back in the late 1970s....curious.

Vets on mil bases - most of the bases I've been on (primarily Navy), the vets have been from the Army.

The NOAA P-3 - [edit] That was delivered as a WP-3D, as built. There are two - N42RF and N43RF.

This pic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NOAA_WP-3D_Orions.jpg ) shows a different tail section that's fatter than the MAD boom, but just as long.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

NOAA (formerly the US Geodetic Survey) were given uniformed service status in WWII to hopefully protect them in case they were taken as POW's.  I don't know if any were.

They look almost identical to the Navy.

I'm not sure if we're required to salute them, but I would anyway.  After all, I'm not going to wait until I'm close enough to see an officer with more gold braid than I have captain's bars nameplate says "NOAA Corps" or not.



This RADM is the Director of the NOAA Corps.  I'd certainly salute him.

Honestly, I would say that CAP is more akin to a volunteer, aviation version of the NOAA Corps than any of the other uniformed services.

[lordmonar]

Wow!  Four pages!

To the original poster.......in order to answer your question fully we need to know in what sense you use the word "military".

[RRLE]

NOAA (formerly the US Geodetic Survey) were given uniformed service status in WWII to hopefully protect them in case they were taken as POW's.  I don't know if any were.

NOAA weatherman also volunteered for service on board USCG cutters as part of the North Atlantic Weather Patrol. They were enrolled in the USCG Temporary Reserve and made Chief Aerographers Mates.

[JoeTomasone]

NOAA (formerly the US Geodetic Survey) were given uniformed service status in WWII to hopefully protect them in case they were taken as POW's.  I don't know if any were.

They look almost identical to the Navy.

I'm not sure if we're required to salute them, but I would anyway.

Not required, but I'd consider it prudent as well.

Incidentally, the following quote also differentiates CAP from the military:

When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP
senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves.
Senior members salute military officers and other CAP officers higher
in rank than themselves.

[MSgt Van]

Do you fall under the UCMJ? No.
Don't know what UCMJ stands for - I rest my case.
We're civilian volunteers serving under an Air Force "umbrella"...sometimes...

We're affiliated with the Air Force.
I like that.
Are we "military"? HECK no.

Does that make us "less" of a volunteer force?  No way.