new cadet meds Reg....

[Major Lord]

OOOhhhhhh....Yes, about the "Guidelines" part. Unfortunately, the Government disagrees with me and believes that the B.O.R. is only operative when it creates no inconvenience for the Governments' demand of unlimited power.

Major Lord

[sarmed1]

I am not sure how many encampments have taken place since this  change took effect. Does anyone have any direct experience of how the policy played out?Major Lord

HMRS changed their policy on meds last year; all participating members with prescription meds are Id'd during inprocessing and recorded in a log book.  Squadron staff are made aware of specific medication needs of their assigned personnel; each med consuming member has a log sheet that the squadron commander or his designee basically signs off that the member took thier medication.  Those with fridge needs store them in the medical building and come to take them on thier schedule.  Those with OTC's carry them with them and take them under the same guidelines (obviously with all of the 160-2...mom permession, regular container etc, etc..... if they dont have thir own mommy and daddy get a call and are given an appropriate medication based on mommy and daddy's permission.

Despte the "high stress" of HMRS no one tried to kill themselves (that we know of) and despite thier being no locakble tents there were no reports of medication thefts and no one reported finding a group of students stoned out of their minds due to inappropraite sharing.....

mk

[Major Lord]

It sounds like you are "administering" the program. The new policy reads in part:

" Consequently, CAP members are not permitted to function as pharmacists, physicians, nurses, or
in any other role that would permit the administration and dispensing of drugs"

To me, it sounds very much like the activity is accepting the role of monitoring and controlling the drugs. Is this variance from the regulation due to local laws or policies, or is this how the activity interpreted the new policy? Either way, I am glad that you have not had any meltdowns.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

It sounds like you are "administering" the program. The new policy reads in part:

" Consequently, CAP members are not permitted to function as pharmacists, physicians, nurses, or
in any other role that would permit the administration and dispensing of drugs"

To me, it sounds very much like the activity is accepting the role of monitoring and controlling the drugs. Is this variance from the regulation due to local laws or policies, or is this how the activity interpreted the new policy? Either way, I am glad that you have not had any meltdowns.

Major Lord

Yes, in part, but it is important to read the entire reg:
(160-2)

a.  A CAP senior member, after obtaining all the necessary information and receiving
documentation of the written permission from a  minor cadet's parent or guardian for the
administration of prescription medication during the activity, can agree to accept the
responsibility of making sure the minor cadet is reminded to take any prescribed medication at
the times and in the frequencies prescribed; however, no senior member will be required or
encouraged to do so.  This regulation does not  prohibit senior member staff from monitoring
medication compliance with directly observed  medication ingestion, having medication forms
for the cadet to initial when doses were taken, performing pill counts, or other compliance
verification.

[Major Lord]

Yes, you are right. My bad.

Major Lord

[sarmed1]

That policy is based directly on intepretation of the reg.  No local law/requirements for PA camps as relates to medication administration. 

mk

[mmizner]

I am not sure how many encampments have taken place since this  change took effect. Does anyone have any direct experience of how the policy played out? I am going to take a wild guess that National would not choose to share with the general membership any open civil litigation (or I.G. Complaint, since a CAP "gag order" is generally placed on these) arising from our new policy, other than as a refinement to the initial policy in the form of an ICL or other mechanism. On the other hand, I have not heard of anyone dying at an encampment or other activity, or any CAP- badgers going postal ( although they don't seem to do rifles much anymore I have heard) So I guess we will have to let the policy be time-tested to see if it results in dramatic, or just routine, problems.

Major Lord

Yes the past few CAWG encampments have run this way.  To my knowledge it has worked great. (approx 300 cadets each year)

[RADIOMAN015]

52-16 is no longer a "draft", is went into effect on 1 February 2011.

Further, on 2 March 2011, CAPR 160-2 went into effect, which specifically addresses the issue:

2. General Rule.  The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual
member for whom the medication was prescribed  or, if the member is a minor, the member's
parent or guardian.  Except in extraordinary  circumstances, CAP members, regardless of age,
will be responsible for transporting, storing, and taking their own medications, including inhalers
and epinephrine pens.

Medical "operations" at encampments and other CAP activities are very different from school nurses.
School nurses are charged by their profession and their employment to diagnose, treat, and even be involved in
long term intervention and mediation of pupil medical issues.   Not so in CAP, which bars members from anything
but life-saving treatment up to the point EMS arrives.

Well I think most of us are in agreement that epi pens & inhalers, as well as other emergency type medication does need to be carried by the individual (cadet or senior) who may need them and we need to be aware of the issues that will require the use my the member.

Personally, I would have no problem IF I ran into a medical issue requiring my epi pen but couldn't do it myself, IF another member took the pen and jabbed me in the appropriate location to save me.    That is the RIGHT thing to do for anyone and I highly doubt that anyone is going to get in trouble for helping in this sort of a situation.

(Hmm now I'm looking where the heck I put my epi pens cause the bees are coming out )  I might also carry some meat tenderizer since IF this is used as a paste immediately on the bite it will remove much of venom and may actually prevent a more serious medical condition from developing BUT if you have had an allergic reaction to a bee sting make sure you've got your epi pen with you because the next bite/sting might be your last
RM   

[Johnny Yuma]

More FAIL from NHQ, Incorporated...

This is going to make encampments very interesting. Some of these kids are on some heavy duty meds that you really don't want laying around in the barracks. We can pretty much kiss encampments goodbye when (not if) some kid steals another's psyche meds and either OD's or has a violent episode.

[PHall]

More FAIL from NHQ, Incorporated...

This is going to make encampments very interesting. Some of these kids are on some heavy duty meds that you really don't want laying around in the barracks. We can pretty much kiss encampments goodbye when (not if) some kid steals another's psyche meds and either OD's or has a violent episode.

Cadets have been taking care of their own meds in CAWG for over five years now and we haven't had any theft problems whatsoever.
The only thing the TAC Officers have had to do is verify/remind cadets to take their meds. Most of them have been taking them for awhile and it's not a problem.

[sarmed1]

More FAIL from NHQ, Incorporated...

This is going to make encampments very interesting. Some of these kids are on some heavy duty meds that you really don't want laying around in the barracks. We can pretty much kiss encampments goodbye when (not if) some kid steals another's psyche meds and either OD's or has a violent episode.

That has been the concern of most HSO's; however as has been pointed out that in the umpteen years of encampments there hasnt been a single documented (ie safety report) case of this happening, SO obviously it isnt a problem and everything will be ok...............

yeah like most :...dont worry this will never happen...." instances in CAP....someone is gonna screw it up.....

mk

[Ned]

More FAIL from NHQ, Incorporated (...)

We can pretty much kiss encampments goodbye when (not if) some kid steals another's psyche meds and either OD's or has a violent episode.

Oddly enough, somehow our successful encampment program has survived this (largely imaginary) threat for over 60 years.

We have had over a thousand encampments involving hundreds of thousands of cadets over the years.  Sadly, sometimes cadets have had things stolen from them in the barracks, sometimes cadets have had bad drug reactions, and sometimes cadets (and seniors) have even "lost it" and become violent.

And yet the encampment program goes on.  Cadets get trained, grow, and mature because of what we do.

And encampments are safe.  Mostly because we have mature, responsible CP officers to mentor and safeguard our cadets.  They take appropriate actions to prevent problems, and prevent small problems from become big ones.

[Patterson]

^ Very well said!

The only documented instance of anyone "stealing prescription meds and getting high", took place in 1991.  A Cadet who was working in the "medical section" during an Encampment stole the keys to the lock box, and took a few pills from each prescription bottle inside. 

It was only discovered when the CAP Senior Member running the medical section spilled a prescription, she went to work on counting the pills to make sure she cleaned them all up.  Surprised that the prescription bottle read as "just refilled" the night before Encampment began, yet 7 pills short. 

So in all CAP-like style, a sting was setup and the Cadet in question was caught.  He was immediately turned over to the Military Police, turned over to the Federal Magistrate and served some time in some juvenile camp.

Needless to say, lets all not get bent out of shape over the "new rules" here.  Things happen, and no matter how well you plan for situations, events transpire in ways you may not even think they could.

As far as dispensing meds to Cadets, I would never do that.  I don't even want to be associated with medications or in the same room.  Some Parents may be devious and hope everyday they can get rich of of a lawsuit, for whatever reason.

[Eclipse]

The only documented instance of anyone "stealing prescription meds and getting high", took place in 1991.  A Cadet who was working in the "medical section" during an Encampment stole the keys to the lock box, and took a few pills from each prescription bottle inside.

Documented where?  I have no issue with the new procedures and policies but I doubt that in the last twenty years anyone can
say anything is "only documented" - that isn't the kind of thing they would put in CAP news.

We've had any number of "Fun!"  "Exciting!" things happen which were handled through channels but not made public.