History of The CAP Distinctive Grey/White Uniform -- Better Options?

[Nolan Teel]

Nothing against anyone on the forums here... but is anyone else tired of hearing about uniforms?  It seems every day in CAP Life we focus on uniforms this and here's an idea for a new CSU that... Im just tired of uniforms... lets all go to polo shirts and slacks and be done with ranks, badges, awards and PD. Solves alot of problems in CAP..



Ok ill get off my soap box now and let the salvos start.

[RVT]

OK, help me out here.  We started with the Aviator shirt uniform, and then moved on to the Corporate Service Uniform (CSU, aka TPU). All of a sudden, Tony McPeak got into the discussion. Where did that come from?

Its Merrill McPeak, and I was just trying to say that the TPU actually looks better than the USAF uniform.  Had there been none of this uniform controversy & debate, I just might have gotten the thing anyway, despite the fact I am within standards to wear AF blue.  If I have to shell out $170 for a coat, might as well be the better looking one.

But really, they BOTH suck, and I want the "Tony Nelson" jacket back.

[a2capt]

Ok ill get off my soap box now and let the salvos start.

This isn't a Communist forum. No one forced you to click the link. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[Eclipse]

Nothing against anyone on the forums here... but is anyone else tired of hearing about uniforms?  It seems every day in CAP Life we focus on uniforms this and here's an idea for a new CSU that... Im just tired of uniforms... lets all go to polo shirts and slacks and be done with ranks, badges, awards and PD. Solves alot of problems in CAP..



Ok ill get off my soap box now and let the salvos start.

Don't mistake CAPTalk for Cap reality - we talk a lot about uniforms because that's what this is, a discussion board - most units I visit
just wear them and move on, adjusting as necessary.

However with that said, the reason(s) for all the discussion are that the regs can be challenging to negotiate and in many cases contradict each other, and despite the basic uniform choices being relatively simple to configure, we still have way too many members
who won't take the time to do things right, and in some cases whole wings just making up their own rules (which causes issues mostly when members from those wings play in someone else's sandbox).

The entire uniform situation is fixable with a one-day meeting and some decisions that make everyone equally unhappy.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Nothing against anyone on the forums here... but is anyone else tired of hearing about uniforms?  It seems every day in CAP Life we focus on uniforms this and here's an idea for a new CSU that... Im just tired of uniforms... lets all go to polo shirts and slacks and be done with ranks, badges, awards and PD. Solves alot of problems in CAP..



Ok ill get off my soap box now and let the salvos start.

Sir, I'm not firing any "salvos," but I notice you have earned quite a bit of chest candy yourself.

If we do what you suggest, then we may as well disconnect from the Air Force entirely and become a pilots' club that does ES only.

And if that day comes, many (including me) will be gone.

If you want to wear just polos and slacks, that is your option.

But you need to take into consideration that there are others who are proud of our Air Force links and the feeling of esprit de corps that comes with wearing the uniform.

It may "solve a lot of problems" but it would also create new ones.

The CAP you envision would have very little place for non-aircrew or non-ground teams, or those who didn't join just to "fly, fly, fly."

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The current service jacket was designed by Gen. McPeak - before that it was the 4-pocket Tony Nelson style.

Unlike most other services, if you changed the buttons no one would know it was a USAF uniform item.

All too true, and for that reason I don't see the confusion between the CSU and the AF uniform, unless one completely ignores such things as cut and insignia and only focusses on the fact that they are both blue.

I saw a grand total of one officer wearing the sleeve-ringed version (a Ch/Capt), in 1995.

I wore my "Tony Nelson" style (good description, but Jeannie's master's version also had the "Kaptain Kangaroo" pockets) until nearly the very end...now it hangs in my closet, complete with blue nameplate.

There was a proposal floated for CAP to keep that uniform and go back to metal grade, since it would no longer be a USAF uniform.  Other than running out of uniform supplies, I wouldn't have minded that at all.

Some of the cadets in my unit still wear that uniform, and it looks good.

[Eclipse]

All too true, and for that reason I don't see the confusion between the CSU and the AF uniform, unless one completely ignores such things as cut and insignia and only focusses on the fact that they are both blue.

How anyone could mistake a double-breasted jacket with six bright buttons and a silver braid for a single-breasted jacket with three subdued buttons and a blue braid is beyond me (not to mention the white shirt, different nametags, weird ribbons, and of course the "CAP" all over it).

The CSU looks more Navy than USAF, and probably more Fire department than military.

[Major Carrales]

All too true, and for that reason I don't see the confusion between the CSU and the AF uniform, unless one completely ignores such things as cut and insignia and only focusses on the fact that they are both blue.

How anyone could mistake a double-breasted jacket with six bright buttons and a silver braid for a single-breasted jacket with three subdued buttons and a blue braid is beyond me (not to mention the white shirt, different nametags, weird ribbons, and of course the "CAP" all over it).

The CSU looks more Navy than USAF, and probably more Fire department than military.

T minus 10 seconds for someone to be offended that the FIRE DEPARTMENT was MENTIONED...

9...

8...

7...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The CSU looks more Navy than USAF, and probably more Fire department than military.

I grew up around firefighters (and respect them highly)...if one were to add a white service cap, there would be a resemblance (watch a few old episodes of Emergency!).

A closer comparison would be the Soviet Air Force's parade dress:

http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos7/sovietchiefmarshal.jpg

Hell's teeth, I'd even be good with this (with matching trousers and standard CAP blingage) with the aviator whites, replacing the very non-aviation looking blue blazer.

http://www.americanuniform.com/fire_dress.htm

[RVT]

Hell's teeth, I'd even be good with this (with matching trousers and standard CAP blingage) with the aviator whites, replacing the very non-aviation looking blue blazer.http://www.americanuniform.com/fire_dress.htm

The Blazer uniform dates back to 1957 and fills a very specific purpose.  Even the CGA, with about 1/8 the uniform inventory that we have, has that.  We don't need to change that at all.

What you HAVE found though, is an off the shelf replacement for the CSU with no development time (since the only modification would be to take the badge fob off). and a built in defense for it - its already designated a fire/police uniform.  They can't complain that it looks like USAF.  And when you stick the CAP "bling" on it it won't look like a cop jacket either.

And we would wear that over the existing aviator white & grey - so you even avoid the "bring back / retain the CSU" problem.  And since its a civillain jacket, technically you already CAN wear it over the white& grey - just not put any insignia on it.

[andysum15]

Almost anything would be good as long as its not the blazer we already have. The blazer to me is a casual jacket and just doesn't look aviation like and certainly isnt military. On top of that cadets hate to see senior members in it.

[Eclipse]

And we would wear that over the existing aviator white & grey - so you even avoid the "bring back / retain the CSU" problem.  And since its a civillain jacket, technically you already CAN wear it over the white& grey - just not put any insignia on it.

Yep - a black police or fire service jacket over the grays would be a great solution.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And we would wear that over the existing aviator white & grey - so you even avoid the "bring back / retain the CSU" problem.  And since its a civillain jacket, technically you already CAN wear it over the white& grey - just not put any insignia on it.

Yep - a black police or fire service jacket over the grays would be a great solution.

Or dark-blue airline uniform service coat...though many of them don't have epaulettes...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Blazer uniform dates back to 1957 and fills a very specific purpose.  Even the CGA, with about 1/8 the uniform inventory that we have, has that.  We don't need to change that at all.

I have seen very few Auxies who wear their blazer.

What "specific purpose" does ours fulfill, other than IACE?

When I see it, I think "Realtor" (no offence to Realtors!), not "aviator."

[arajca]

When I see it, I think "Realtor" (no offence to Realtors!), not "aviator."

Most folks see "security" since the standard 'soft' uniform for security guards is...grey pants, navy blue blazer w/patch and name tag, white shirt, blue or black tie, black shoes.

[Eagle400]

I don't mind the uniforms at all.  The problem I have, is with what they are called. 

The word corporate --to describe these uniforms-- is (at best) dopey... And at worst idiotic.   

"Distinctive" is more appropriate, and is the term that should be used.     

This is just like the problem where Air Force uniforms are designated by CAP as Air Force Style uniforms.  Well sorry National; no such animal.  They are not (I say again not) Air Force Style uniforms. 

An Air Force Style uniform is the little green flightsuit-looking costume kids wear on Halloween.  Or the little blue service dress jackets on the stuffed teddy bears they sell at the BX.   

 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When I see it, I think "Realtor" (no offence to Realtors!), not "aviator."

Most folks see "security" since the standard 'soft' uniform for security guards is...grey pants, navy blue blazer w/patch and name tag, white shirt, blue or black tie, black shoes.

Really?  Now that you mention it, I see sorta what you mean, except that I'm thinking of the gents that volunteer at the local hospital to direct people around and make sure kids don't get too rambunctious.

I also think of community service organisations like Rotary, Jaycees, etc.

I was mistaken for a department store security guard once - in the blue AF short sleeve uniform with grey nameplate and epaulettes...the young lady who did so was very apologetic once she read my nameplate.

[Krapenhoeffer]

I actually really like the idea of an APU (Airline Pilot Uniform?). Add in the CSU service cap, but with the WWII-era device, and that would be my CAP uniform for the rest of my CAPpy days.

Granted, that would give pretty much every airline pilot I've met another reason to hate CAP.

[RVT]

Or dark-blue airline uniform service coat...though many of them don't have epaulettes...

McPeak already gave us that.

[PHall]

Or dark-blue airline uniform service coat...though many of them don't have epaulettes...

McPeak already gave us that.

And Fogleman fixed it.