Long term viability of CAP as an air SAR/DR force

[Ricochet13]

One way or the other, it will all boil down to a matter of dollars.  Funding at all levels of government is going to remain very tight for at least the next couple of decades. 

While UAV/UAS will be a growth area for the military and the services are already competing to see which will control this resource - interservice rivalry which will be reminiscent of the funding battles in the late 40's-early 50's. 

However,  the costs of deploying this asset in situations similar to those CAP handles will be limited and  use of CAP aircraft in the initial stages of a mission will continue.

That having been said however, all levels of CAP from flight/squadron through CAP-NHQ need to continue developing the missions profiles which can be successfully accomplished. 

The advantage being that few governments./agencies will be willing to pay more than the least expensive option will charge to perform the mission.  Somewhat like the "Iron Law of Wages" economists refer to.

[SARMedTech]

The latest Airman article has a good article on the AF Predator program http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0707/uav.shtml

If you pay attention you'll see that they're flying just about as many hours with the Predator as CAP flies on AF missions.  Sooner or later these hot wars are going to cool down and they're going to have a lot of excess capability and it will start cutting into CAP missions. 

Lets face it, the Predator is just more capable than CAP in some areas.  It is far superior to CAP in terms of aerial damage assessment, which has been one of our few growth areas (it seems).  It may be better for general visual search missions as well. 

Yes, prices are still very high for these things and availability is still limited, but that will change over time.

Frankly, I am not very optimistic about the long term viability of CAP as a primary provider of light aircraft services in disaster and SAR.  We're probably still good for another 5-10 years before really starting to get squeezed, but thats about it. 

Combine this with the fact that more and more local sheriffs departments are getting helicopters and the increasing restrictions on CAP's ability to actually do the low level flying needed to spot missing airplanes and the outlook is not good. 

Will the AF still want to fund corporate airplanes primarily used for cadet o-rides and occassional transport missions (which are also increasingly restricted)?  Or, will they begin to look harder at the CG Aux model using all private planes for which the CG Aux reimburses gas and some maintenance money?   

Predators and other drone type assets are invaluable. But I think that there are better ways that the USAF-CAP team could spend its resources in terms of personnel, finance and material assets.

[SARMedTech]

You now where they could really replace us big time is CD....

Some Wings aren't even doing the traditional pot hunting now and are just being used as aerial radio relay platforms for the NG helicopters flying at very low levels.  You can bet that the National Guard will want to use their new toys for this mission as well -- though their helicopter pilots aren't going to want to hear it. 

Here is another possible ground team tasking in cooperation with LE...ground teams walking suspected areas of marijuana planting and along with LE (as an armed presence because pot growers dont appreciate losing their product) destroying the plants and further disrupting the growth and distribution. One area where this would be effective is getting farmers permission to walk through large farm fields with LEOs looking for pot plants between the rows. This is VERY common, since the pot growers can just sort of leach on to the use of water and pesticide from the farmer and alot of time, once corn and other cereals get big enough, the farmer may not know the plants are there depending on how automated his farming operation is. If he is a resounding NO [explative] WAY! and a slamming door, you might find that we have helped law enforcement by providing the beginnings of probable cause for a search warrant of the field since a farmer not engaged in growing pot probably wouldnt mind having a team inspect his property so long as we were careful with his crops. What a great use of ground teams!

[SARMedTech]

PS- as someone who was on the ground at the WTC and as an EMT in the Gulf states after katrina, I can say that there would be one major consideration for natural distaster relief should CAP get involved, and its something that just must be thought of long and hard and not just dismissed out of hand. I worked with an EMS agency in NO that allowed me to carry a sidearm for self defense from looters, angry disaster victims, desperate family members, etc. Eventually if CAP is to go hard and heavy with DR, somebody needs to have the conversation of us being armed, even if with less lethals, or of having armed escorts. The mindset after a natural disaster can be more deadly than the disaster itself. There were many murders and rapes that occured after Katrina and also attacks on members of the Red Cross, USCG an CGAUX. Its not a pleasant topic or a popular one, but one  that must never the less be seen for what it is...the elephant in the room. The old, we've never done that, our charter doesnt allow for it, the CAP-USAF complex would never allow it argument simply cant be sufficient. We have to look at the realities of this issue. Almost all DR/EM training and educational programs (even as grass roots as CERT teams) include some in depth discussion of how disaster relief workers protect themselves from people who have lost everything including their loved ones, feel that the DR workers arent doing enough and start to do some desperate things they would not otherwise do. Im not some gun toting yahoo and I would live for the rest of my life if I had to take a life or inflict less lethal harm against someone during DR, but the fact is that we are no good to anyone if we are dead or injured and then our families have to deal with it. Perhaps it comes down to things like ASP batons (with certification training) OC spray, LE level tasers, etc, rather than firearms, but its something that cannot be dismissed because the first time that a CAP member is killed or maimed by a desperate disaster survivor, CAP is going to pull out and all hell is going to break loose. There is talk in the DR community about the use of less lethals including things like blaze orange painted shotguns with bean bag rounds and batons....even old fashion riot clubs. Something would be a necessity. And of course the less imposing it seems to the public the better as in no knives at crash sites. But we will all go to CAP funerals sooner or later, do we really want to do it because one of our officers or God forbid a cadet is killed in service to others? I know i dont.

[ZigZag911]

You may be correct, but I have to admit the concept of CAP personal armed (even with 'less than lethal' weapons) makes me uncomfortable.

Have there been actual incidents in which CAP personnel were accosted/assaulted?
I mean documented, not just anecdotal evidence.

I'm thinking it will be hard to find....this is one instance, I believe, when the military style of our uniforms probably offers some protection to the members -- people in these circumstances, under this stress, seeing regular military & National Guard all over the place, no doubt assume we are armed, even if the weapons are concealed!

[SARMedTech]

To my newbie knowledge, no CAP officers have been attacked during the course of their duties to the extent that they would neaalled to resort to deadly force. What I was trying in my long winded way to indicate is that this is becoming a genuine concern in the DR/EM community. Even CERT is contemplating letting team members carry OC. I know they will be in the team I am in the process of starting. Im just thinking about information I am getting through the grapevine in grad school and would hate to see a CAP officer hurt by a desperate and grieving disaster survivor or looter. Thats all. The idea of all DR officers with guns is a little nervous making, but I still say that the need for protection in a really solid DR team needs to be addressed. Of course, most of us are armed to the teeth anyway...survival knives, entrenching tools, pocket knives,  axes in our packs. Like they told me in EMT school, anything is a weapon if you swing it hard enough.

PS...sorry about taking up other peoples space by typing multiple long posts in a row. I will stop doing that. Sorry, friends.

[Hawk200]

I know there has been a lot of talk of using unmanned aircraft to do the kind of work we do, but there is an issue that does come up. You cannot operate any of those aircraft for less funding than most CAP missions. The're expensive. I think we'll be around doing that for awhile, we're cheaper.

[Dragoon]

On UAVs - as long as the war's on, they won't be available for anything but the biggest disasters (killing bad guys takes precedence, dontcha know).

Once the war's over, you'll probably see the military (especially the NG) offer up UAVs for ES work because of the training benefit.  After all, they're gonna fly either way; might as well do someone some good while they're up there.  But this assumes we get over the FAA/NTSB objections about UAVs and manned aircraft sharing the airspace - that may take a little time.

On the gun topic - I doubt CAP needs to be a "leader" in the area of arming ES personnel.  If it becomes the standard, we can look at it.  And be prepared to pay double or triple dues to cover the additional corporate liability insurance......

[RogueLeader]

If you have Cadets/SMs walking corn fields, be sure to have water, water, water, even more water, and salt tablets.  Having walked corn rows in July, with the corn being watered, makes for long hot work.  I wasn't paying attention and almost had to go to the hospital.  Heat stress/strokes are no fun at all.

[SARMedTech]

If you have Cadets/SMs walking corn fields, be sure to have water, water, water, even more water, and salt tablets.  Having walked corn rows in July, with the corn being watered, makes for long hot work.  I wasn't paying attention and almost had to go to the hospital.  Heat stress/strokes are no fun at all.

Not for nothing, but salt tablets have pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird because we know a little more about fluid metabolism than we did 50 years ago. I wouldnt give salt tablets to anyone who was dehydrated as an EMT and I would strongly try to get them away from them before they took them. There is a medical addage: Where salt goes, water goes. When your dehydrated, especially severely t the point where electrolytes are in trouble, pure salt may as well be cyanide. The body cannot handle high concentrates of salt when dehydrated. It needs isotonic saline..less than 1% What will happen is that there body will not be able to process that salt safetly and it acts as a toxin, so the body tries to get rid of it...by urinating and taking water with it, increasing dehydration, further depleting electrolytes and sends heat stroke and core temp through the roof and the chance of metabolic shock increases on something like orders of 10. If you must give salt, it MUST be isotonic which salt tablets are not. the best thing is 1 part gatorade to one part water or even better the same mixture of pedialyte because it doesnt have as many flavorings and colorings and crap which the already compromised system would really rather not have. If Im the health services officer and I find someone with salt tabs, im going to do my best to flush the tabs down the john and give then powdered gatorade instead. No sir...no salt tabs for anyone I am looking after. If dehydration and heat stroke are severe enough, you may as well give cyanide caps.

[RogueLeader]

Just rechecked the label. . . sodium chloride, and potassium chloride, added up to like 4 or 5% as active ingrediants.

[SARMedTech]

Just rechecked the label. . . sodium chloride, and potassium chloride, added up to like 4 or 5% as active ingrediants.

Im not sure if you mean the salt tablets or the electrolyte replacers...but 4 or 5% is still too high for straight salt. There have also been studies where salt tablets cause th e tongue to swell and partially occlude the upper airway.  Even in most EMS agencies where ringers lactate have largely gone by the way side in favor of D5W and
.9% saline IV prefereably in the anti-cubital space if your patients veins arent shot from dehydration. Salt tablets just arent good. Not on my HSO watch 

[thefischNX01]

As an aside, In response to the first post by SARMedTech, he makes a valid argument that we haven't really considered in terms of weapons.  When a disaster strikes, and as he said, people have lost property and loved ones, this creates what ciminologists refer to as Anomic Conditions.  Anomic Conditions are when the norm has been altered and no longer exists.  In this case, society is gone and anarchy has replaced it.  Usually law abiding citizens are placed in a different mindset: survival.  Anomic Conditions increase one's propensity for crime, and in the post-disaster world of survival, people aren't rational, they are instinctive.  I'm sure they saw the Uniforms the Coast Guard and National Guard guys were wearing, but it didn't register as much as "I bet that guy has some food".  Or, as SARMedTech also said, they feel their needs aren't being attended to as well as they should have, and they become violent.  We have to remember that we're sitting here in a (nice) house with a computer, and they may be lucky to just have a roof over their heads and a hot meal.  Who knows what any of us would do if we suddenly were forced to fend for ourselves.  Some food for thought. 

With regard to the original topic, however, I think it depends on what CAP wants to do.  If we want to stay with Emergency Services, being SAR and DR, we might want to look outside the Air Force to remain current and keep the missions coming.  However, if we wanted to play a greater role in Homeland Security and other related missions, we should grow closer to the Air Force. 

However, I don't think the issue is lack-of-missions, it's the standards of professionalism we place on our members.  According to Samuel Huntington and his book "The Soldier and the State", the first thing any militarized force needs is a high degree of professionalism.  Sadly, CAP is poorly lacking in this.  If we want to stay competitive in ES, the first step is to require all members to take the FEMA NIMS courses, like every other ES Agency in the United States.  (My wing is experimenting with this, so I'll get back to you on it's effect.)

Bottom line: With professionalism comes missions. 

[RiverAux]

Predators and other drone type assets are invaluable. But I think that there are better ways that the USAF-CAP team could spend its resources in terms of personnel, finance and material assets.

I wasn't proposing that CAP use them, I was saying that as they become more widely distributed within the National Guard that there is a high probability that they will become the air SAR asset of choice rather than CAP -- not that they would be particularly more effective than we would be (and yes, they do have some advantages) its just that when people have toys, they want to use them and the owners of these toys will be in desperate need of justification for having them in the first place and will be fighting hard to use them whenever possible. 

[RogueLeader]

Just rechecked the label. . . sodium chloride, and potassium chloride, added up to like 4 or 5% as active ingrediants.

Im not sure if you mean the salt tablets or the electrolyte replacers...but 4 or 5% is still too high for straight salt. There have also been studies where salt tablets cause th e tongue to swell and partially occlude the upper airway.  Even in most EMS agencies where ringers lactate have largely gone by the way side in favor of D5W and
.9% saline IV prefereably in the anti-cubital space if your patients veins arent shot from dehydration. Salt tablets just arent good. Not on my HSO watch 

They were electrolyte replacers, and that was the whole percentage of all active ingredients.  Not sure of just salt.

[SARMedTech]

Just rechecked the label. . . sodium chloride, and potassium chloride, added up to like 4 or 5% as active ingrediants.

Im not sure if you mean the salt tablets or the electrolyte replacers...but 4 or 5% is still too high for straight salt. There have also been studies where salt tablets cause th e tongue to swell and partially occlude the upper airway.  Even in most EMS agencies where ringers lactate have largely gone by the way side in favor of D5W and
.9% saline IV prefereably in the anti-cubital space if your patients veins arent shot from dehydration. Salt tablets just arent good. Not on my HSO watch 

They were electrolyte replacers, and that was the whole percentage of all active ingredients.  Not sure of just salt.

OK..now I follow what youre saying. I just worry about salt tablets especially with the cadets. They can really be dangerous.  The tablets...not the cadets.

[RogueLeader]

Even when I took those, that was with plenty of water as well.

[SARPilotNY]

Need we talk about the CAP member that pulled over the DUI suspect and held him at gunpoint until the state troopers arrived?  (In a CAP uniform)
Firearms for CAP will keep F. Lee Bailey flying high at our expense

[RogueLeader]

Need we talk about the CAP member that pulled over the DUI suspect and held him at gunpoint until the state troopers arrived?  (In a CAP uniform)
Firearms for CAP will keep F. Lee Bailey flying high at our expense

No.

[SARMedTech]

Need we talk about the CAP member that pulled over the DUI suspect and held him at gunpoint until the state troopers arrived?  (In a CAP uniform)
Firearms for CAP will keep F. Lee Bailey flying high at our expense

Probably not. He was disbarred for tax evasion I believe.