Aging out

Started by vesryn, October 15, 2019, 02:43:47 PM

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etodd

Quote from: PHall on October 16, 2019, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 16, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
If they are moving over at 21, might well mean they haven't been in the plane for THREE years, since they age out of Orientation Flights when they hit 18.  So any that move over, I try to get them started with Mission Scanner and maybe then Airborne Photographer, so we can get them back in the airplane for the qualification sorties. Gives them some fun goals.

If flying is what they want to do. It may surprise you but not all members of CAP have the desire to fly.
As a senior member they get to pick what they want to do.

Well of course silly, we don't force anyone to fly.  ;D I was referring to those who might like to go that route. I'm the guy here that teaches MS, AP, & MO, sUAS and other things. And try to jump start them quickly, before their interests wane.

If they are interested in ground based opportunities we have other members who will mentor them in those areas.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 16, 2019, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 16, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
If they are moving over at 21, might well mean they haven't been in the plane for THREE years, since they age out of Orientation Flights when they hit 18.  So any that move over, I try to get them started with Mission Scanner and maybe then Airborne Photographer, so we can get them back in the airplane for the qualification sorties. Gives them some fun goals.

If flying is what they want to do. It may surprise you but not all members of CAP have the desire to fly.
As a senior member they get to pick what they want to do.

Well of course silly, we don't force anyone to fly.  ;D I was referring to those who might like to go that route. I'm the guy here that teaches MS, AP, & MO, sUAS and other things. And try to jump start them quickly, before their interests wane.

If they are interested in ground based opportunities we have other members who will mentor them in those areas.


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

etodd

Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.

National and CAP-USAF have budgeted money for the O-Flights, when it's not used they have to explain why it was not used to the auditor.
Which is why you have to give your reply.

etodd

Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.

National and CAP-USAF have budgeted money for the O-Flights, when it's not used they have to explain why it was not used to the auditor.
Which is why you have to give your reply.

Yes. Another issue with that report is that it shows Cadets who haven't fallen off the roll yet.  We have about 10 who haven't attended a meeting in months. That really skews the numbers when Hdqs looks at it. Need a way to purge those cadets off the list so Hdqs doesn't keep asking why they are not flying. Waiting until their 12 month membership dues runs out isn't helpful.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.

National and CAP-USAF have budgeted money for the O-Flights, when it's not used they have to explain why it was not used to the auditor.
Which is why you have to give your reply.

Yes. Another issue with that report is that it shows Cadets who haven't fallen off the roll yet.  We have about 10 who haven't attended a meeting in months. That really skews the numbers when Hdqs looks at it. Need a way to purge those cadets off the list so Hdqs doesn't keep asking why they are not flying. Waiting until their 12 month membership dues runs out isn't helpful.

Terminate them for "Lack of Interest".

"That Others May Zoom"

N6RVT

Quote from: Eclipse on October 17, 2019, 08:05:42 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PMYou might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation. Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".
Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.
National and CAP-USAF have budgeted money for the O-Flights, when it's not used they have to explain why it was not used to the auditor. Which is why you have to give your reply.
Yes. Another issue with that report is that it shows Cadets who haven't fallen off the roll yet.  We have about 10 who haven't attended a meeting in months. That really skews the numbers when Hdqs looks at it. Need a way to purge those cadets off the list so Hdqs doesn't keep asking why they are not flying. Waiting until their 12 month membership dues runs out isn't helpful.
Terminate them for "Lack of Interest".

Back in the old days - must have been the 1970's sometime - Group 19 in California purged all of its inactive members like that.   And in so doing, purged group 19 itself, which was disbanded shortly thereafter.

Eclipse

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on October 17, 2019, 09:00:19 PM
Back in the old days - must have been the 1970's sometime - Group 19 in California purged all of its inactive members like that.   And in so doing, purged group 19 itself, which was disbanded shortly thereafter.

If the Group is a closet of empty shirts, then it deserved to be retired.

"That Others May Zoom"

Ozzy

Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Not surprised at all.  Wing Hdqs looks at the Orientation Flight reports and asks why so many haven't had their first flight?  And I have to reply with how many are not interested. Those reports should not be used that way. There really should be a column on that report where the Squadron can show the ones that will never fly.

National and CAP-USAF have budgeted money for the O-Flights, when it's not used they have to explain why it was not used to the auditor.
Which is why you have to give your reply.

Yes. Another issue with that report is that it shows Cadets who haven't fallen off the roll yet.  We have about 10 who haven't attended a meeting in months. That really skews the numbers when Hdqs looks at it. Need a way to purge those cadets off the list so Hdqs doesn't keep asking why they are not flying. Waiting until their 12 month membership dues runs out isn't helpful.
[/quote

Transfer them to 000. I did and do that for cadet members that haven't shown up and that don't respond to the 30-60-90 day emails I send to those I haven't seen in a while.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

Eclipse

Quote from: Ozzy on October 17, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Transfer them to 000. I did and do that for cadet members that haven't shown up and that don't respond to the 30-60-90 day emails I send to those I haven't seen in a while.

That used to be a good compromise, however many wings, and even entire Regions no longer allow that.

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

The "correct" thing to do for cadets who lose interest in the program and quit showing up is to 2b them for "Lack of Interest".
That way they're out of the system and not effecting anyone's stats.

N6RVT

Quote from: Eclipse on October 17, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ozzy on October 17, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Transfer them to 000. I did and do that for cadet members that haven't shown up and that don't respond to the 30-60-90 day emails I send to those I haven't seen in a while.
That used to be a good compromise, however many wings, and even entire Regions no longer allow that.

I think the procedure now is to put them in Patron status but in the same unit.  Makes it easier to reinstate them if they re-appear and doesn't screw up activity statistics.

I do not know if that works for cadets.  Having cadets in patron status just seems odd.

Ozzy

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on October 17, 2019, 11:32:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 17, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ozzy on October 17, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Transfer them to 000. I did and do that for cadet members that haven't shown up and that don't respond to the 30-60-90 day emails I send to those I haven't seen in a while.
That used to be a good compromise, however many wings, and even entire Regions no longer allow that.

I think the procedure now is to put them in Patron status but in the same unit.  Makes it easier to reinstate them if they re-appear and doesn't screw up activity statistics.

I do not know if that works for cadets.  Having cadets in patron status just seems odd.

There is no cadet "Patron" membership.

As for the Wings and Region that don't allow for 000 ghost squadrons... well I guess it's a 2b then which makes them rejoining a little bit harder.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

PHall

Quote from: Ozzy on October 17, 2019, 11:40:11 PM
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on October 17, 2019, 11:32:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 17, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ozzy on October 17, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Transfer them to 000. I did and do that for cadet members that haven't shown up and that don't respond to the 30-60-90 day emails I send to those I haven't seen in a while.
That used to be a good compromise, however many wings, and even entire Regions no longer allow that.

I think the procedure now is to put them in Patron status but in the same unit.  Makes it easier to reinstate them if they re-appear and doesn't screw up activity statistics.

I do not know if that works for cadets.  Having cadets in patron status just seems odd.

There is no cadet "Patron" membership.

As for the Wings and Region that don't allow for 000 ghost squadrons... well I guess it's a 2b then which makes them rejoining a little bit harder.


I can't remember anyone who has been 2b'd for lack of interest as a cadet ever trying to rejoin as a cadet.
Have had a couple rejoin later as senior members and their 2b's were easily overcome since it wasn't because they were discipline problem.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on October 18, 2019, 12:45:58 AM
I can't remember anyone who has been 2b'd for lack of interest as a cadet ever trying to rejoin as a cadet.
Have had a couple rejoin later as senior members and their 2b's were easily overcome since it wasn't because they were discipline problem.

Yep - "Lack of interest" terminations cause no issues whatsoever with rejoins.

One of the issues I'm aware of is the personnel records retention requirements with 000.
The wing, by reg, has to collect all those folders and retain them indefinitely, which becomes
a pretty big deal when you have 150+ people assigned to the charter and no actual
commander or staff.

"That Others May Zoom"

Fester

Quote from: PHall on October 17, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 17, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 16, 2019, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: etodd on October 16, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
If they are moving over at 21, might well mean they haven't been in the plane for THREE years, since they age out of Orientation Flights when they hit 18.  So any that move over, I try to get them started with Mission Scanner and maybe then Airborne Photographer, so we can get them back in the airplane for the qualification sorties. Gives them some fun goals.

If flying is what they want to do. It may surprise you but not all members of CAP have the desire to fly.
As a senior member they get to pick what they want to do.

Well of course silly, we don't force anyone to fly.  ;D I was referring to those who might like to go that route. I'm the guy here that teaches MS, AP, & MO, sUAS and other things. And try to jump start them quickly, before their interests wane.

If they are interested in ground based opportunities we have other members who will mentor them in those areas.


You might be surprised to know that less then half of the cadets out there are interested in flying and aviation.
Many come into the program for leadership training, ES and for "something to do".

Where did you pull that stat from?  I have 50 cadets in my Unit.  Only ONE has no desire to fly.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996