CAP Uniforms & Army Awards

[RiverAux]

I don't have the references handy but looked this up in the regs for a discussion over on CAPortal recently .... CAP has one reg which says CAP members can only wear awards given by the military services if they earned them while in that service while another CAP reg says it is okay to wear any military award that you have earned (but doesn't specify it had to have been while in that military service).  A contradiction that probably should be clarified. 

[MIKE]

^ See also: AFI 36-2903 and the USAF rules for wear of such awards.

Don't take this wrong though... I've got nothing against the awards being awarded IAW Army policy.

[Pylon]

I don't have the references handy but looked this up in the regs for a discussion over on CAPortal recently .... CAP has one reg which says CAP members can only wear awards given by the military services if they earned them while in that service while another CAP reg says it is okay to wear any military award that you have earned (but doesn't specify it had to have been while in that military service).  A contradiction that probably should be clarified. 

It's already been discussed at length before, not here, but on another discussion board.  The consensus, I recall, was that a CAP regulation does actually prohibit CAP members from wearing military awards that were awarded outside the auspices of service in the Armed Forces.

That means those CAP members awarded the Air Medal in WWII?  Rip 'em off, not authorized.  

Been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom?  CAP doesn't like that either -- National says no way - even in the Knowledgebase.  Can't wear it.

Yeager Award ribbon for an online, open-book quiz?  Sure.  You can wear that.  

Me thinks we've been getting ahead of ourselves and not updating our regulations to be a bit more logical, with it, and coherent.

[RiverAux]

okay, okay, I'll give the references:
This is from CAPM 39-1 and says it would be ok for these folks to wear the Army awards:

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

However, CAPR 39-3 Section 3b seems to say you can only wear the awards you earned while in the military:

b. Decorations, ribbons, and badges authorized for wear on the US Air Force uniform may be worn on the CAP uniform when earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority to a member for service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. (Foreign decorations, ribbons, badges, etc., awarded in writing to a member not in the Armed Forces of the United States may also be worn if approved by National Headquarters.)

In my opinion since our uniform manual says it is okay to wear on the uniform I take that as definitive even though the awards manual says different. 

The only consensus about this on CAPortal when I brought it up was that I should get a life and should stop worrying about small contradictions in CAP regulations....I, of course, beg to differ.

[MIKE]

Figure 4.1. NOTES: 3. A few of the decorations awarded by federal agencies are: Medal of Merit, National Security
Medal, Presidential Medal of Freedom, Medal of Freedom, Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals,
NASA Distinguished Service Medal, Public Health Service Decorations (Distinguished Service
Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, and Commendation Medal); US Maritime Service Decorations
(Distinguished Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, and Mariner's Medal). Do not
wear these decorations unless you wear US military decorations and service medals. If you wear
more than one, arrange them in the order of acceptance. If you wear two or more from the same
agency, that agency decides the precedence. Ribbons must be the same size as Air Force ribbons.
Wear only those decoration ribbons awarded by federal agencies and earned while in military service.

Emphasis added.

[lordmonar]

Figure 4.1. NOTES: 3. A few of the decorations awarded by federal agencies are: Medal of Merit, National Security
Medal, Presidential Medal of Freedom, Medal of Freedom, Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals,
NASA Distinguished Service Medal, Public Health Service Decorations (Distinguished Service
Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, and Commendation Medal); US Maritime Service Decorations
(Distinguished Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, and Mariner's Medal). Do not
wear these decorations unless you wear US military decorations and service medals. If you wear
more than one, arrange them in the order of acceptance. If you wear two or more from the same
agency, that agency decides the precedence. Ribbons must be the same size as Air Force ribbons.
Wear only those decoration ribbons awarded by federal agencies and earned while in military service.

Emphasis added.

That line was added to denote whether you earned them before or after you joined the military.

By that reasoning....CAP members who earn awards while CAP members would be able to wear federal and military medals on their CAP unifroms.  Remember that the AFI is addressing USAF personnel earning non USAF medals.

[Major_Chuck]

I don't have the references handy but looked this up in the regs for a discussion over on CAPortal recently .... CAP has one reg which says CAP members can only wear awards given by the military services if they earned them while in that service while another CAP reg says it is okay to wear any military award that you have earned (but doesn't specify it had to have been while in that military service).  A contradiction that probably should be clarified. 

It's already been discussed at length before, not here, but on another discussion board.  The consensus, I recall, was that a CAP regulation does actually prohibit CAP members from wearing military awards that were awarded outside the auspices of service in the Armed Forces.

That means those CAP members awarded the Air Medal in WWII?  Rip 'em off, not authorized.  

Been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom?  CAP doesn't like that either -- National says no way - even in the Knowledgebase.  Can't wear it.

Yeager Award ribbon for an online, open-book quiz?  Sure.  You can wear that.  

Me thinks we've been getting ahead of ourselves and not updating our regulations to be a bit more logical, with it, and coherent.

Update our regulations! you must be one of those troublemakers for sure.

-Chuck

[O-Rex]

I don't have the references handy but looked this up in the regs for a discussion over on CAPortal recently .... CAP has one reg which says CAP members can only wear awards given by the military services if they earned them while in that service while another CAP reg says it is okay to wear any military award that you have earned (but doesn't specify it had to have been while in that military service).  A contradiction that probably should be clarified. 

The medals in question are specifically for Civilians.

[RiverAux]

There are quite a few "real" military awards that can also be earned by civilians.  I think the AF has about half a dozen or more.

[davedove]

The medals in question are specifically for Civilians.

I was going to mention that myself.  These awards are Army awards for civilian service, not military service.  If they were awarded while the individual was in the military, they could be worn.  But, if they were awarded while the individual was a civilian, as these were, they cannot be worn.  I think that's pretty strange, considering it's the same award.  I believe this comes straight from the USAF regs.

Note that the Air Force has similar civilian medals.  If you earn them as a civilian, you can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

[lordmonar]

The medals in question are specifically for Civilians.

I was going to mention that myself.  These awards are Army awards for civilian service, not military service.  If they were awarded while the individual was in the military, they could be worn.  But, if they were awarded while the individual was a civilian, as these were, they cannot be worn.  I think that's pretty strange, considering it's the same award.  I believe this comes straight from the USAF regs.

Note that the Air Force has similar civilian medals.  If you earn them as a civilian, you can't wear them on the CAP uniform.

Except that the National CC has approved them for wear!  It's good to be the king!

[davedove]

Except that the National CC has approved them for wear!  It's good to be the king!

Yes, that's true, I was thinking of the base regs.  Obviously a supplement will have to be done.  I can even agree with the approval, since the awards were specifically for CAP activities.

Does the Air Force have to approve what awards may be worn on the AF style uniforms?  If so, that could be a sticking point.

[Hawk200]

Does the Air Force have to approve what awards may be worn on the AF style uniforms?  If so, that could be a sticking point.

That's actually an interesting question. If we make a new dec for CAP, does the AF have to approve it for wear on the Air Force variant uniform?

Then again, considering the new "pre solo" wings, maybe not. If you were Air Force brass, would you have approved those wings?

[lordmonar]

Does the Air Force have to approve what awards may be worn on the AF style uniforms?  If so, that could be a sticking point.

They alread have.  See the excerpt from AFI 36-2903 below.  CAPM 39-1 tells us to follow USAF guidance on wearing other services medals....ergo....this should already be a done deal.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The wording of 39-3 is confusing.

It appears that only foreign decorations awarded to members while NOT in the armed forces requires National approval.

For US decorations, they can be worn if awarded to "A member" for "Service in one of the armed forces." 

So, if a CAP member performs service at the request of, or on behalf of, the US Army, and the Army awards that member a medal, it can be worn.  This is apparently the case in Iowa.

But... If you are escorting IACE cadets to the Glorious Country of Kazacstan, and you perform a deed worthy of a decoration, you can only wear the Kazacstan Medal For Not Screwing Up Too Bad with the approval of National HQ CAP.

Unless you are concurrently a member of the US Armed Forces, or the deed was performed during a solar eclipse and involves farm animals.

[RiverAux]

John K, please refer to my earlier post which lays out the contradictory instructions on this issue in 2 different CAP regulations....

[JohnKachenmeister]

River:

I read them.  The way I interpret 39-3, however, is not as contradictory as it sounds at first, except for foreign awards.

It looks like 39-1 authorizes ALL military awards, including foreign awards.

But 39-3 seems to allow military awards earned after CAP membership, for service with a branch of the armed forces.  It forbids foreign awards without NHQ approval.

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

[flapsUP]

You're all missing the point.  Instead of talking about regulations why isn't anyone talking about why these are the first medals since WWII.  What's wrong here. Why has it taken over 60 years for the armed services to recognize our value?  What about the AF.  Why doesn't the AF grant us awards? Aren't we good enough?  Katrina? The Coast Guard Aux received unit citations why didn't we?

The IAWG was able to do something to get recognized, what about the rest of us?  What did they do that we haven't done or can't do?  Why hasn't any other Wing done this?

We can't even proceed to discuss these critical questions as long as we are concerned about whether the AF or CAP regs allow us to wear them  It's irrelevant, we don't have them and if we continue to lack vision we'll never get them.

[NEBoom]

You're all missing the point.  Instead of talking about regulations why isn't anyone talking about why these are the first medals since WWII.  What's wrong here. Why has it taken over 60 years for the armed services to recognize our value?  What about the AF.  Why doesn't the AF grant us awards? Aren't we good enough?  Katrina? The Coast Guard Aux received unit citations why didn't we?

The IAWG was able to do something to get recognized, what about the rest of us?  What did they do that we haven't done or can't do?  Why hasn't any other Wing done this?

We can't even proceed to discuss these critical questions as long as we are concerned about whether the AF or CAP regs allow us to wear them  It's irrelevant, we don't have them and if we continue to lack vision we'll never get them.

Well said.  Let's not overlook the significance of this achievement.  They've done some truly groundbreaking work in Iowa Wing, and I'm so happy that they're getting this excellent recognition for it.

I'm kind of surprised so many people want to debate about decorations on the uniform vs. discussing what's been achieved in Iowa.  If you haven't yet taken a look at what they've done there, you should!

[DNall]

You're all missing the point.  Instead of talking about regulations why isn't anyone talking about why these are the first medals since WWII.  What's wrong here. Why has it taken over 60 years for the armed services to recognize our value?  What about the AF.  Why doesn't the AF grant us awards? Aren't we good enough?  Katrina? The Coast Guard Aux received unit citations why didn't we?

The IAWG was able to do something to get recognized, what about the rest of us?  What did they do that we haven't done or can't do?  Why hasn't any other Wing done this?

We can't even proceed to discuss these critical questions as long as we are concerned about whether the AF or CAP regs allow us to wear them  It's irrelevant, we don't have them and if we continue to lack vision we'll never get them.

Well said.  Let's not overlook the significance of this achievement.  They've done some truly groundbreaking work in Iowa Wing, and I'm so happy that they're getting this excellent recognition for it.

I'm kind of surprised so many people want to debate about decorations on the uniform vs. discussing what's been achieved in Iowa.  If you haven't yet taken a look at what they've done there, you should!

I don't disagree, but this is in the uniform thread, which indicates the intent was to discuss the wear of the decorations, not the achieving of them, which is outstanding & congrats to all involved. I don't believe current regs allow for wear of these awards, but I'd expect that to change. I'd also like to bump the AF about those dozen or so awardable to civilians, and maybe even change a few other appropriate ones to be awardable to CAP also.

[flapsUP]

Dnall ... my old friend from CAPBlog...you'd be the last person I thought would promote form over substance. 

[Hawk200]

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

To bring up that point, the AFI says that state awards may not be worn on AF uniforms, if the member is on Title 10 orders, and then only when those orders are longer than 180 days.

I know a few people argue that state decorations are not allowed on AF uniforms, and by extension, not authorized on CAP uniforms. Their arguments are not inline with the AF Instructions. Instructions, which ironically, they claim we don't have to follow, because we're not the Air Force.

I think it's really funny that you can wear an award from a foreign government on CAP uniforms, but awards from the individual states are meaningless.

[DNall]

Dnall ... my old friend from CAPBlog...you'd be the last person I thought would promote form over substance. 

It's not that at all. The poster had a choice of which foum to place this thread in - the "lobby" or "membership" where a discussion of the substance would be appropriate, or "uniform" where the rules of wear & such are best. Obviously they picked uniform & I merely raise that point in saying itis appropriate if people want to talk about that matter here. A whole seperate thread on the substance in one of those other areas is equally appropriate, and wear rules would be out of place there. Everything in its place.

[flyguy06]

Even so, I don't think they can technically be worn on the CAP uniform.

I dont think the Commanders award for Public Service is an awrd that you wear on your uniform. I have never heard of tis award. Its probably a certificate but I do not believe ( and I could be wrong) that it is an awrd that you wear on your uniform.

[JohnKachenmeister]

That's a valid point... CAP should have been recognized with at least the Humanitarian Service Medal for Katrina.

[lordmonar]

Even so, I don't think they can technically be worn on the CAP uniform.

I dont think the Commanders award for Public Service is an awrd that you wear on your uniform. I have never heard of tis award. Its probably a certificate but I do not believe ( and I could be wrong) that it is an awrd that you wear on your uniform.

Have you read any of the posts in this thread?

the National Commander was there and he confirmed that you COULD wear the medal on CAP uniform.

It is infact a medal Link

[DNall]

Sure enough, but it would seem the AF shuld clarify the policy, and in asking for such clarification would be a good time to ask for the AFI explaining & simplifying the process for award of AF decorations to CAP members on AFAMs.

Is there an actual ribbon by the way or is it just a medal? I mean some of the civilian awards are lapel pins & the medals are actually worn that way also for formal occasions. Is there a mini-medal & stuff for mess dress? See how there is a range where AF decs are more appropriate & fit the unique mold we're in better.

[BillB]

DNall,  check the link in the post above yours and you'll find there is a ribbon and there is a mini medal.

[RiverAux]

In cases where there is an longstanding CAP award (Disaster Relief Ribbon) that can be awarded we should probably stick with what we have.  I am in favor of using AF awards when CAP doesn't have anything that applies instead of creating a new CAP award when we are already eligible for the AF Award.

[MIKE]

It would appear that the thread split/merge has backfired. 

[DNall]

It would appear that the thread split/merge has backfired. 

I'm not concerned with the wear policy in talking about the issue, but rather the status of the award as a spring board from which to seek broader recognition by the AF (and NG in this case) for our services - which has little to do with awards & lots to do with integration - AND, as a spring board to revising the Iowa model to a nationally adoptable system - such as under 1AF in the scenerio I mentioned. None of this has squat to do with if these very deserving individuals can or can't wear Army civil service/civilian decorations on CAP uniforms, I could care less to be honest.

[DNall]

In cases where there is an longstanding CAP award (Disaster Relief Ribbon) that can be awarded we should probably stick with what we have.  I am in favor of using AF awards when CAP doesn't have anything that applies instead of creating a new CAP award when we are already eligible for the AF Award.

Is there already a CGAux unit citation? Cause the CG Presidential Unit Citation seems to carry a bit more weight.

The CAP Disaster Relief Ribbon requires a list of disaster related training & participation in a couple sorites. It's basically what you'd expect from a 101 qual. The military Humanitarian award is a bigger deal, which requires significant contribution & direct deployment to a a short list of presidentially declared national disasters of a national nature... something along those lines. The standards are different, and CAP members would only theoretically qual for the military decoration when making a meassured contribution on AFAMs for the military response to such qualified disaster operations (I guess you might be able to get it on missions for national guard also, i don't know the rule on that).

However, I do tend to think it best for CAP not to go creating a bunch of awards for things that could be covered by AF decorations. Cause, the first thing they're going to do in evaluating an recommendation is ask if any lower award in the AF or CAP list is more appropriate. If there is a CAP decoration for those things then you won't get the AF decoration, even if you did twice as much as AF personnel that did get it.

[lordmonar]

Well...I've got say that the humanitarian service medal is not always all that.  They also award it to "units" and bases.  You can get it for not doing much other than your job while everyone else was out cleaning up after a hurrican.

The problem I have with the CAP disaster response ribbon is that it has a lot of training requirments to be eligible for it.  i.e. you helped out with a national desaster (a requirement for it to be awared) but don't have the required red cross training....it does not matter how much you worked your butt off you can't get it.


Granted...I like the ideal that if we deploy to support the FEMA and the DOD awards the humanitarian service medal to the military...it should not be all that hard to also extend it to us.....if it is awardable to civilians.

Well...I just checked and AFI 36-2803 para 9.3 says civilians are not eleigble for campaign and service medals (such as the HSM).

Ergo....We eigher need to ask the DOD/USAF to change their stance or specifically add CAP (and other service auxillies) to the regulaitons.

In the interum...we can change the wording for the CAP Desaster Relief Ribbon to state it is awarded to anyone who helps during a mission/even that the DOD awards a HSM and eliminate the red cross training rerquirment.

[RiverAux]

A CAP Disaster Relief ribbon with "V" device can be awarded to any CAP member participating in a presidentially declared disasater. since 1990.  No training classes required for that one. 

There are various CG Aux awards for units just as there were other unit awards for the CG, but they are awarding the CG Presidential Unit citation to the Auxies as well as the CG.  I actually love this contradiction -- I'm getting a Presidential Unit Citation from the CG for a disaster that I did absolutely nothing as an Auxie but as a CAP member who spent a couple of weeks working Katrina I just get a goofy little CAP ribbon.  Furthermore, depending on which CAP regulation you want to read, I may or may not be able to wear the CG Presidential Unit Citation on my CAP uniform (Actually, as a personal choice I don't wear ribbons on either my CG Aux or CAP uniforms, but its the principle of the thing that gets me). 

[ELTHunter]

A CAP Disaster Relief ribbon with "V" device can be awarded to any CAP member participating in a presidentially declared disasater. since 1990.  No training classes required for that one.

Speaking as one who has a CAP Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" device, I find it hard to answer without laughing when someone asks me what I got it for:)

[DNall]

That's correct. It states for members of the military. However there is precedent for some decorations that say the same thing to be awarded to civilians when acting under military orders - versus those specifically awardable ot civilians that cover cases when I guess you just happen to be walking by a situation & pitched in of your own initiative. I think if they wanted to there is a fairly easy case to be made for CAP to qualify when on AFAMs. The key there being if they wanted to. I'd zero in on the other military decorations specifically awardable to civilians, and in the process of getting an AFI for that ask that it also clarify that CAP on AFAM is elligible for certain other military specific decorations (such as humanitarian service). There's a pretty strong case to be made, and because AF always holds the keys to when any of these are awarded & the approval authority is so much higher than for service members, and because you can make a case for how this helps service members also serving w/ CAP... yeah I think I could sell that.

[RiverAux]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

[Hawk200]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

Most likely.

I did seven weekends of 'quake relief in California. Didn't get anything on either the CAP or Air Force side for it. The Wing CC sent out certificates that a few people on the military side used to get Humanitarians. Unfortunately, my Group CC "lost" them.

There were a number of people from my base that went and did one day of quake relief. Every one of them got an Achievement Medal, and I think a few managed to finagle Humanitarians as well (so much for that little clause that says you can't get two different decs for the same action.)

[mawr]

I worked some at Joint Task Force Katrina at Camp Shelby, MS.  This was the Command and Control for Katrina recovery.  The CAP-USAF folks there were the only USAF faces on post and very few of them at that.  They answered to Lt Gen Honore' each evening on behalf of the USAF during briefing.  These people were working 16 hour + shifts it seems.  Every morning I went in,  I saw the same people that were there at 2000 - 2100 the previous night.  Shift change was at 0530 so I don't know how the did it.

Our very own Dustoff here on the forum was one of those people that should have recieved an award.  In my opinion, all the USAF personnel working there deserve recognition.  :clap:

[lordmonar]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

Most likely.

I did seven weekends of 'quake relief in California. Didn't get anything on either the CAP or Air Force side for it. The Wing CC sent out certificates that a few people on the military side used to get Humanitarians. Unfortunately, my Group CC "lost" them.

There were a number of people from my base that went and did one day of quake relief. Every one of them got an Achievement Medal, and I think a few managed to finagle Humanitarians as well (so much for that little clause that says you can't get two different decs for the same action.)

If the operation was awarded a HSM and you can prove you were assigned to that operation...then you don't need anyone's approval....it's already been done.   Take your evidence (EPRS, Orders, TDY Vouchers, Decoration write up) and go to your MPF and they will check the web site and update you in PCIII (or what ever they call it now).

[davedove]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

I read a news release a while back that there were Humanitarian Service Medals as well as Armed Forces Service Medals given to military involved with Katrina, as well as the Armed Forces Civilian Service Medal for DoD civilians.  I don't recall the specifics, but there were medals given out.

[DNall]

I read a story about some maint personnel who just prep'd AFSOC helos to deploy & got a humanitarian service medal for it. Of course CAP-USAF personnel involved would get it, and obviously it would be appropriate for a lot of CAP members as well, even if you apply a stiffer standard.

[Hammer]

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

Really?  I was just asking, because the MDWG/CC wears his ARNG ribbons/

[DNall]

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

Really?  I was just asking, because the MDWG/CC wears his ARNG ribbons

The Army ones or the state ones? Cause the Amry ones would be fine, but the handful of state ones would not - or that's up for debate a bit since they are auth on ANG uniform in that state... see how this gets confusing.

[Hammer]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

Most likely.

I did seven weekends of 'quake relief in California. Didn't get anything on either the CAP or Air Force side for it. The Wing CC sent out certificates that a few people on the military side used to get Humanitarians. Unfortunately, my Group CC "lost" them.

There were a number of people from my base that went and did one day of quake relief. Every one of them got an Achievement Medal, and I think a few managed to finagle Humanitarians as well (so much for that little clause that says you can't get two different decs for the same action.)

If the operation was awarded a HSM and you can prove you were assigned to that operation...then you don't need anyone's approval....it's already been done.   Take your evidence (EPRS, Orders, TDY Vouchers, Decoration write up) and go to your MPF and they will check the web site and update you in PCIII (or what ever they call it now).

If you were physically there, you got BOTH the Humanitarian Service Medal, AND the Armed Forces Service Medal.  If you weren;t there, but aided in some way, such as the people in the NMCC, you only got the Armed Forces Service Medal

[Hammer]

The AFI cited would forbid, for example, awards by a state government, and by extension, state awards would not be authorized on the CAP uniform

Really?  I was just asking, because the MDWG/CC wears his ARNG ribbons

The Army ones or the state ones? Cause the Amry ones would be fine, but the handful of state ones would not - or that's up for debate a bit since they are auth on ANG uniform in that state... see how this gets confusing.

He wears BOTH Army, PAARNG, and CAP.  See the picture below:



Personnally, I think that if you get to wear a CAP ribbon for being in for two years, why couldn't you wear a State Commendation or evven a State Legion of Merit?  Am I missing something here?!?!  The AFI DOES allow National Guard State Decorations to be worn.

[MIKE]

But not on federal service.

[Hammer]

But not on federal service.

Isn't it upto 90  or 180 days?  And I think that's a BS rule, look at the foreign decorations authorized.

[DNall]

I think its 60 or 90 days... in recognition of the fact that it's a lot of work to change your rack for a week's service. It just gets difficult to keep up with what's what. Which is why you can't wear them on active service & why you can't wear them in CAP - at least as the interpretation goes. It may be BS, but that's what it is & CAP doesn't make the rule one way or the other.

Personally I don't think you need a CAP ribbon for 2-years service, much less the worthless crap they call level I. They got rid of the AF Good Conduct medal for similiar reasons. I'd be in favor of cutting a lot fo the current CAP decorations & instead recommending members for the many AF decorations that can be awarded to civilians.

[Dustoff]

I wonder if the CAP-USAF folks deployed to the Gulf Coast after Katrina in support of CAP operations got any AF awards for that service?

I read a news release a while back that there were Humanitarian Service Medals as well as Armed Forces Service Medals given to military involved with Katrina, as well as the Armed Forces Civilian Service Medal for DoD civilians.  I don't recall the specifics, but there were medals given out.

To set the record straight, the CAP-USAF folks from NCLR were awarded the HSM.  We weren't in the AOR long enough to qualify for the AFSM.  I can't speak for the other regions, but I know what our region CC put us in for.

And mawr, thanks for the kind words.  All we did was grease the skids for ya, CAP was doing the hard work.

Jim

[Hawk200]

But not on federal service.

Isn't it upto 90  or 180 days?  And I think that's a BS rule, look at the foreign decorations authorized.

From AFI 36-2903, p123: 4.3. ""Non-Air Force Service Awards. Air National Guard (ANG) members wear state decorations when serving in state status but not while on federal active duty...."

From the Air National Guard supplement to AFI 36-2903: "ANG personnel on federal active duty status (Title 10) for a period of 179 days or less may wear State awards/decorations."

So technically the statement of "But not on federal service." is not a completely accurate one.

I got a lot of grief while in tech school last year for wearing a state dec. My school was almost 8 months, but my orders were Title 32. According to the AFI and its supplements, I could wear that state dec the whole time. I bruised a few egos when I showed them that.

[lordmonar]

But not on federal service.

Isn't it upto 90  or 180 days?  And I think that's a BS rule, look at the foreign decorations authorized.

Yes, but the difference is that the foreign decorations were earned while in federal service and this is a very important disctinction.