Cadet Command Badge

[DC]

I saw something interesting in the most recent meeting minutes from the FLWG CAC. They are discussing the possibility of a Cadet Commander's Badge, like the Commander's Badge worn by SM Squadron and Group Commanders, but for the Cadet Commander of a squadron.

I think it is an interesting idea, and I don't know any cadets that would object to more bling, but is it really necessary? I would certainly hope that cadets don't need a badge to ID their C/CC. But,  the AF has them, the Senior Members have them so why shouldn't Cadet Commanders?

[MIKE]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4511.0

[JROB]

We talked about that possibility in a CAC meeting as well. I think if they redesign the cadet programs badge to say Cadet Commander that would be fine or have the C/CC wear the Squadron Commander's Badge.

[MIKE]

My thoughts:  Not distinctive enough on both counts.

[DC]

Here are the USAF and CAP Command Insignias.



I would keep it similar to the CAP badge, but distinctive enough to be easily recognizable.

Unfortunately the only 'Cadet Program Insignia' is the stars and stripes shield that is on the enlisted rank insignia.

Maybe the CP symbol with an olive wreath around it and a large star in the center?

[jeders]

^Or better yet, and I'm just throwin this out there, leave the cadet commander without more useless bling. The only time I see this ever being needed is at an encampment, and most encampments already have funny do-dads for that.

[arajca]

^Or better yet, and I'm just throwin this out there, leave the cadet commander without more useless bling. The only time I see this ever being needed is at an encampment, and most encampments already have funny do-dads for that.

If you insist on having bling for the cadet commander, how about a shoulder cord? All you'd need is a letter from the wing commander and *BLAMMO* instant recognition. Much more visible. At the change of command, it is easier to change so that you don't have two cadets wearing the identifier.

[JayT]

^Or better yet, and I'm just throwin this out there, leave the cadet commander without more useless bling. The only time I see this ever being needed is at an encampment, and most encampments already have funny do-dads for that.

Definately. Get ride of the First Sergeant diamond all together to.

[CAP Producer]

But,  the AF has them, the Senior Members have them so why shouldn't Cadet Commanders?

Because they are not really commanders.

Cadets are by definition "officers in training." The Commader's Badge recognizes the unique responsibilities that a commander has. Legal, fiscal, material liability and leadership/management responsibility for the squadron/group.

Not to dis cadets but a Cadet/CC just does not rise up to that level.

In my opinion.

[mikeylikey]

But,  the AF has them, the Senior Members have them so why shouldn't Cadet Commanders?

Because they are not really commanders.

Cadets are by definition "officers in training." The Commader's Badge recognizes the unique responsibilities that a commander has. Legal, fiscal, material liability and leadership/management responsibility for the squadron/group.

Not to dis cadets but a Cadet/CC just does not rise up to that level.

In my opinion.

Spot on.  I forgot that and I deal with Cadets (dealt with cadets up to graduation last Friday) on a daily basis.  That is one of the things I used to stress during the first semester that the Cadets were going to one day be an Officer, but not yet.  I would treat Cadets like Officers, and make sure they upheld the standards of conduct, but made sure they knew their primary job was to learn how to be a leader. 

I think that is what CAP is missing.  We just do not keep our Cadets after they graduate from High School.  We have no program to keep them motivated to become a Senior Member (read Officer).  I know we have FO's, but that is just not enough.  I think we need to get some type of program going to keep cadets past HS graduation.

Sorry....huge thread drift on my part.   

[AlphaSigOU]

I'm gonna hafta agree with Major Pabon; a cadet commander service badge probably ain't gonna fly nationally. Maybe a distinctive shoulder cord for wear within the wing during the cadet commander's term of service. (Texas Wing used to denote a serving cadet commander with a dark green deodorant string - ahem - shoulder cord.  The Texas Wing supplement to 39-1 has expired; a revised one is expected soon.)

Somehow, I'm thinking that if such a badge gets approved, it's gonna lead to serious confusion and possibly the mistaken notion that senior members who were former cadinks could continue to wear it if a 'graduated cadet commander' clause (much like the RealAirForce® does with their command badge, and some CAP seniors want for our command badge) is inserted in the proposed reg. But that's the least of my worries - if the wear provisions are carefully chosen to prevent such an occurrence.

As Major Pabon already mentioned, cadets are officers-in-training; there's already way too much blingage allowed on the CAP uniform.

BTW the Cadet Programs badge already has a portion of an olive branch on the bottom half of the emblem; the top half is a stylized eagle. It's modeled after the cadet officer cap insignia.

<-- former cadet commander BITD WIWAC.

[sarflyer]

Although I wouldn't oppose the idea.  I have to agree with mikey. There is a lot of responsibility and authority associated with being a squadron commander.

I think I would go more along the idea of a shoulder cord.  Makes a little more sense.

[Gunner C]

As Major Pabon already mentioned, cadets are officers-in-training; there's already way too much blingage allowed on the CAP uniform.

+1

[Eclipse]

Although I wouldn't oppose the idea.  I have to agree with mikey. There is a lot of responsibility and authority associated with being a squadron commander.

I think I would go more along the idea of a shoulder cord.  Makes a little more sense.

Please no more cords.

[DC]

What is with the near universal disgust over uniform devices. I agree that things like Hawk Mountain uniforms are a bit far out, and we definately don't need anymore patches for BDUs, but I see no problem with devices on the service uniform. Seriously, it's not like everyone would wear it, and I think either a badge or a cord is a nice way to recognize the effort put forth by Cadet Commanders. I as a Cadet Deputy Commander spend 5 to 10 hours a week doing things for CAP, usually drafting memos, taking care of paperwork, organizing activities, mentoring cadets, etc.

As for "no more cords" complaint, you can only wear one at a time, so what's the problem? There are only six nationally recognized cords in CAP, that's not a lot. If you want to compare CAP to groups like JROTC or dare I say it the Boy Scouts, we are incredibly conservative with the uniform. That's fine, but anytime someone merely brings up the topic of uniform devices it is slammed with the "Oh no more bling" statements.

Seriously, can't there be a mature discussion about the topic, rather than a rant about how we have to much uniform bling? If you do not think a badge denoting C/CC is a good idea, then fine, but explain why.
[/soapbox]

Somehow, I'm thinking that if such a badge gets approved, it's gonna lead to serious confusion and possibly the mistaken notion that senior members who were former cadinks could continue to wear it if a 'graduated cadet commander' clause (much like the RealAirForce® does with their command badge

Isn't that what the Command Service Ribbon is for?

[arajca]

What is with the near universal disgust over uniform devices. I agree that things like Hawk Mountain uniforms are a bit far out, and we definately don't need anymore patches for BDUs, but I see no problem with devices on the service uniform. Seriously, it's not like everyone would wear it, and I think either a badge or a cord is a nice way to recognize the effort put forth by Cadet Commanders. I as a Cadet Deputy Commander spend 5 to 10 hours a week doing things for CAP, usually drafting memos, taking care of paperwork, organizing activities, mentoring cadets, etc.

As for "no more cords" complaint, you can only wear one at a time, so what's the problem? There are only six nationally recognized cords in CAP, that's not a lot. If you want to compare CAP to groups like JROTC or dare I say it the Boy Scouts, we are incredibly conservative with the uniform. That's fine, but anytime someone merely brings up the topic of uniform devices it is slammed with the "Oh no more bling" statements.

Seriously, can't there be a mature discussion about the topic, rather than a rant about how we have to much uniform bling? If you do not think a badge denoting C/CC is a good idea, then fine, but explain why.
[/soapbox]

I'm against positional indicators (incl the infamous 1sgt diamond) in general for cadets because they usually (in my experience) forget that outside of the unit, the indicator does not confer additional priviledges or grade. I have cadets attempt to dress me down because I won't call them first sergeant at a sarex or other non-unit activity. They also seem to expect that everyone immediately knows who they are because of the position indicator. It is much easier for a cadet to remove a shoulder cord they shouldn't be wearing outside the unit than it is to remove a badge.

Somehow, I'm thinking that if such a badge gets approved, it's gonna lead to serious confusion and possibly the mistaken notion that senior members who were former cadinks could continue to wear it if a 'graduated cadet commander' clause (much like the RealAirForce® does with their command badge

Isn't that what the Command Service Ribbon is for?

The Command Service ribbon is for seniors, not cadets.

[Eclipse]

As for "no more cords" complaint, you can only wear one at a time, so what's the problem? There are only six nationally recognized cords in CAP, that's not a lot. If you want to compare CAP to groups like JROTC or dare I say it the Boy Scouts, we are incredibly conservative with the uniform. That's fine, but anytime someone merely brings up the topic of uniform devices it is slammed with the "Oh no more bling" statements.

Seriously, can't there be a mature discussion about the topic, rather than a rant about how we have to much uniform bling? If you do not think a badge denoting C/CC is a good idea, then fine, but explain why.

This >is< a discussion about uniform bling, specifically.

In my personal experience, the majority of cadets, especially younger ones, are more interested in the cord, then the job, and once they get the cord, they disengage.

As noted, cadet commanders do not actually have any personal responsibility for execution like Seniors do.

[sarflyer]

Positional indicators are a fact of the military.  They also reflect greater responsibility.  The commander of a squadron is a unique position and the best one in my opinion.

There just is no comparison between cadet commander and squadron commander.  Now, that being said, not all squadrons are the same.  There are all kinds of commanders and styles of command.  Some good, some not so good.

But to stay on point, I really think a badge is not good but a shoulder cord would be.  It denotes a position of authority and responsibility.  I believe a cadet commander deserves the recognition.  In my unit, he is an important asset to me and I charge him with running the cadet side of the house under the CDC.

The other issue you bring up about attitude is valid but not a reason to squash what might be a good award idea.  The members that pull that kind of stuff are showing their immaturity and lack of knowledge of the regulations.  Too bad but hopefully someone will set them straight at some point.

I think an attachment to their highest cadet achievement ribbon like a silver star AFTER they have served in that position would be a good acknowledgement of their past service as a cadet commander.  

Both of these things are possible also even though they will take 6-12 months to approve because there is no funding impact at the National level and they are small things that recognize great accomplishment.

Someone should propose it!

[arajca]

I believe the silver star is already used to denote completion of COS. But the gold star isn't...no pun intended.

[sarflyer]

Your right!  But only on the Mitchell Ribbon while a cadet.  A gold star would be a good substitute.  When the cadet turns senior he can move the star to his highest cadet ribbon.  Also cords can be approved at the wing level by the Wing CC for any color except blue, red, gold and white.