National / Region Commanders Commendations & National Commanders UCCs

[MIKE]

I fail to see why it is important to distinguish between what level of commander awarded a commendation or unit citation... Frankly it shouldn't even have the word Commander on it.  Doesn't CAP already have it set up so that only a _______ Commander can approve a specific decoration?  This should be what is important.  Now you will have people wearing commendations with silver stars, bronze stars and clasps.

[jimmydeanno]

Mike,

I completely agree with you.  It shouldn't matter 'who' awards the thing, the contribution is the same whether it was the region cc awarding it or the national CC, the criteria for the award is exactly the same.

Methinks this is just a way for people to make themselves feel better or more important because someone 'higher than yours' presented it.

It's also going to make the ribbon look like CaCa because you'll have 2 different types of devices being worn on it.

[AlphaSigOU]

Mike,

I completely agree with you.  It shouldn't matter 'who' awards the thing, the contribution is the same whether it was the region cc awarding it or the national CC, the criteria for the award is exactly the same.

Methinks this is just a way for people to make themselves feel better or more important because someone 'higher than yours' presented it.

It's also going to make the ribbon look like CaCa because you'll have 2 different types of devices being worn on it.

Methinks the value of this award has been cheapened even further. It's beginning to look like the German WWII Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross. Prepare for a bad case of 'chest rash' that afflicts the 'bling hunters'.

Thanks a lot NB, now I've gotta revise my CAP ribbons guide! 

[Steve Kuddes]

There are times a member performs at a Region activity verses a Wing activity so to recognize that there are separate awards.  Its been that way for years.

There are two Unit Citation Awards.  One for 12 plus months of outstanding service and one for a specific achievement.


Steve Kuddes, Col, CAP
National Awards and Promotion Team

[MIKE]

Which goes to the point I am trying to make... In the military and similar, you don't get a different commendation if it is awarded by a higher authority.  A commendation awared by the MAJCOM CC is the same as that awarded by a Wing CC... except for the signature.

[arajca]

There are two Unit Citation Awards.  One for 12 plus months of outstanding service and one for a specific achievement.

Can you provide a source? the Unit Citation (green ribbon) is awarded for either scenario. The National Commander's Unit Citation is awarded to whoever the National Commander feels like awarding it for whatever.

h. Unit Citation Award. Exceptionally meritorious service or exceptionally outstanding achievement which clearly sets the unit above and apart from similar units:
(1) Recognition of meritorious service should cover a period of at least 12 months in order to permit the recommending authority to consider simultaneously units with related missions, compare all the units within their wing or region, and select the truly outstanding unit meriting the award.
(2) Recognition of outstanding achievements intended to recognize a single specific act or notable accomplishment that is separate and distinct from the normal mission or regular function of the unit. The period of an outstanding achievement is normally short and characterized by definite beginning and ending dates.

[mikeylikey]

There are times a member performs at a Region activity verses a Wing activity so to recognize that there are separate awards.  Its been that way for years.

But why?!?  Why differentiate the same award?  The only thing that will come with this is 20 years from now, those with the Award from say Region, will join some "Region Awardee" club, while those with the same award but awarded by Wing CC will be feeling crappy.  

We need to eliminate awards.......not ADD TO THEM!

[James Shaw]

What about the National CC
Exceptional Service
Merotorious Service
Commanders commendation
Lifesaving Award

Do they have seperate attachments?

[Steve Kuddes]

Unit Citation awards, Exceptional and Meritorious Service all use the same ribbon without any distinctive clasp to differentiate National, Region or Wing.  When the National Commanders Citation was created at the August 06 Board, that's how it was presented with the silver clasp on the ribbon. 

Achievement and Appreciation Certificates are printed in either Wing or Region style depending on who is awarding them.  Its hard for our members sometimes to figure all of this out.

As the Team Leader of the National Awards and Promotion Team, I plan to help write a guide that all commanders can use to determine which award is appropriate and how to write an effective request if you want a member to receive an award.  We have sent award requests back for more information or to clarify a request rather than just disapprove it.

If anyone has questions about requesting or writing award requests, please contact me and I will help.  But the most effective tool we have in CAP is for our members to voice their opinions.  When the Agenda items go out to the membership, take the time to read them and contact your appropriate commander with your opinion.  The National Staff who review and make recommendations on items such as awards, promotions, uniforms, etc are listed at the National website.  I can't speak for anyone else but I certainly don't mind receiving opinions from anyone on an item like that anytime.  I can't vote on the agenda item but I do have a voice in them.

[jimmydeanno]

I think the point trying to be made here, which I agree with, is that the criteria for the award is exactly the same no matter who awards the ribbon.  If the achievement truly merits some sort of "special recognition" from someone "higher up" then more than likely they would rate a higher award.  There isn't any reason to add special attachments and make different "classes" of commander's commendations simply because your boss happens to be the Region CC, the criteria for the award are exactly the same for the Region LG as the Squadron LG.

[cnitas]

Is the change going to be retroactive?
And how can you tell what level of command awarded the commendation?

[Pace]

Is the change going to be retroactive?
And how can you tell what level of command awarded the commendation?

The CAP/CC certificate says "National Commander's Commendation."
The one awarded at wing level says "Commander's Commendation."
It's not a stretch to think the one awarded by a region/cc will have "Region Commander's Commendation."

[cnitas]

I meant on retroactive awards. 

One of my Commendations (awarded wiwac)  is possibly a National level award but perhaps a region award. 
It was presented by a Region Commander at a national activity.   

[DNall]

There are times a member performs at a Region activity verses a Wing activity so to recognize that there are separate awards.  Its been that way for years.

There are two Unit Citation Awards.  One for 12 plus months of outstanding service and one for a specific achievement.


Steve Kuddes, Col, CAP
National Awards and Promotion Team

Sir, that's absolutely the wrong way of doing business, and never how it was intended to be.

There are different levels of commendation award based on the action. It should have ZERO to do with what echelon that occurred at or who the approving authority is. By doing it as you state, it becomes a political exercise that does not adequately recognize the people in the field & over recognizes the people at higher echelons. That by its nature cheapens the awards and seriously dilutes the very behavior incentives the awards exist to create.

All commendation awards must be considered strictly according to the standards for each level award. There's no reason a region commander can't give out an award that a Gp CC could approve. If that's all the action merits, then that's what they should get.

As far as unit citations. That's dumb as well. Like commendations above, all citations are supposed to be for either a period of service OR a single situation. Again like commendations, there should be a few levels of unit citation to indicate the degree of achievement. It should have nothing to do with the approving authority & everything to do with how well they did.

[Cecil DP]

Is the change going to be retroactive?
And how can you tell what level of command awarded the commendation?

The signature block on the certificate and the CAPF 120 will show who awarded the decoration.

[cnitas]

Is the change going to be retroactive?
And how can you tell what level of command awarded the commendation?

The signature block on the certificate and the CAPF 120 will show who awarded the decoration.

I always assumed the sig block was the pre-printed National CC sig.  I guess I will dig out my old certificates and see what they say.  I never saw any CAPF 120s.

[davedove]

I think the point trying to be made here, which I agree with, is that the criteria for the award is exactly the same no matter who awards the ribbon.  If the achievement truly merits some sort of "special recognition" from someone "higher up" then more than likely they would rate a higher award.  There isn't any reason to add special attachments and make different "classes" of commander's commendations simply because your boss happens to be the Region CC, the criteria for the award are exactly the same for the Region LG as the Squadron LG.

That's exactly correct.  This is another case where CAP should emulate the military's way of doing things.  For instance, in the military, a commendation award is a commendation award; the only difference is on the accompanying certificate.

I feel this will lead to one-upmanship.  "Well my award is more impressive because the region commander signed it, whereas only the wing commander signed yours."

If it is truly a more notable achievement, a higher level award should be made.

[James Shaw]

I called NHQ and asked a question about the National level Awards and was not aware there was a difference. It is very easy to tell if the ESA, MSA, CC, or any other award is from National Level. If you have a certificate that accompanied the award look for the signature line. If you have two signatures on the certificate than it went through the chain to get approved. If it only has one signature line than it was initiated by NHQ.

So with this in mind here is the question.

Lets say you have 3 exceptional service awards. Two of them are dual line and the last is a National or single line certificate. Do you wear the Exceptional Service award ribbon with one triangle and one bronze star or the ribbon and teo triangles? Or to confuse it even more do you wear two ribbons one with a star and the other with a triangle.

[mikeylikey]

Lets say you have 3 exceptional service awards.

Then you Sir are very exceptional! 

Seriously.....were these awards created for the sole purpose of awarding the current leadership?  I mean....will backdating to say 1 year ago be allowed?  If so, then that was the true purpose.....to make someone feel better. 

I am putting myself in for 12 awards on March 12.  One for each day I had to read about more trivial nonesense coming from NHQ.  Lets focus on improving Pro Dev as much as we are on awarding each other awards and we can create a stellar (phenomenal) membership base.

[cnitas]

Lets focus on improving Pro Dev as much as we are on awarding each other awards and we can create a stellar (phenomenal) membership base.

Do I get a gold star on my new CAP Achievement medal?

[jb512]

I just received my first Commander's Commendation award tonight along with a few other members, and at the risk of sounding proud on my part, I think our commander did it for the right reasons.  One member has been our comm officer for 3 years and just accepted a position with group as their comm officer as well as squadron commander of another squadron, and another has been our stan/eval/ops officer for years and just went to wing as stan/eval.  Congrats to them.

[mikeylikey]

^ Congrats.  But......they got them for doing their everday jobs?

[jb512]

Not so much.  As most military/prior military will attest to, sometimes a person will receive a commendation or acheivement medal after their tour when moving on.

I'll add that I didn't put in the details, but they did many things beyond their responsibilities at the squadron level, which is why group and wing sucked them up.

[James Shaw]

New and brought to you by Vanguard!!

[Cecil DP]

New and brought to you by Vanguard!!

So they took the minimedal for the Navy Expeditionary Medal and replaced the pendant with a CAP device.

[DrDave]

This is where the new Member Achievement Award would have been more appropriate.

It's one of the ways I use it to recognize deserving members of my group.

Dr. Dave

[O-Rex]

In the military and similar, you don't get a different commendation if it is awarded by a higher authority. 

What about the Presidential Unit Citation?

[MIKE]

Except for that one. 

[cnitas]

In the military and similar, you don't get a different commendation if it is awarded by a higher authority. 

What about the Presidential Unit Citation?

That award can only be awarded by Presidential order, it cannot be awarded by a different authority.

What Mike was saying is that if the President himself awarded me an Achievement medal, it would be no different than if my local batallion commander had awarded it to me. 

[jimmydeanno]

New and brought to you by Vanguard!!

I think it looks nice but never really saw it's purpose.  I would like to see the mini-medals that are already approved actually manufactured (Eaker for instance).

I also think it would be nice if the ribbons and mini-medals of the Unit Citation, Search and Rescue and IACE matched.  I think the ribbons should convert to look like the mini-medal drape - but that's a different discussion.

[O-Rex]

In the military and similar, you don't get a different commendation if it is awarded by a higher authority. 

What about the Presidential Unit Citation?

That award can only be awarded by Presidential order, it cannot be awarded by a different authority.

What Mike was saying is that if the President himself awarded me an Achievement medal, it would be no different than if my local batallion commander had awarded it to me. 

Okay, so we're talking same award given by different command levels: got it.

Yeah, NCC is an anomaly: it's usually Commendation for units below wing, Meritorious for Wing level, Exceptional for Region, and Distinguished for National (did I get that right?)

It's a mixed bag: UPSIDE: You get recognition while keeping blingage to a minimum, also, it didn't take a committee a dog's-age to design something new.   DOWNSIDE: it's confusing, not to mention that ribbon-collectors might not feel the love. 

Alternative: make a CAP Acheivement Award, and upgrade the req's for the Commendation (The Army did this when it's acheivement medal was created in 1981.) Also, do away with the Red Service and/or Membership Ribbon to keep a cap on total ribbons (why not? USAF did away with the good conduct medal, right?)

[SarDragon]

New and brought to you by Vanguard!!

So they took the minimedal for the Navy Expeditionary Medal and replaced the pendant with a CAP device.

There are slight differences in the widths of the stripes, but it's close enough that I would object.

[Hawk200]

(why not? USAF did away with the good conduct medal, right?)

Yes, they did, but it was a general officer that had more to do with it than anyone enlisted.

Why shouldn't there be a "kept your nose clean" ribbon? I will continue to wear mine.

Now if they had decided to ditch the BMT ribbon, I would remove mine with no complaint. Ditching a medal for good conduct is seriously messed up. "You're supposed to be doing a good job, so you don't deserve anything for it."

[mikeylikey]

^ they (The USAF) are still trying to separate as much as possible from old Army throwbacks. 

[Gunner C]

^ they (The USAF) are still trying to separate as much as possible from old Army throwbacks. 

I had heard that the reason behind it was that there were so few airmen who receive UCMJ that it was pretty much a gimme.

BTW, I knew an E7 (former Marine) who had never been awarded a GCM, either by USMC or the Army.  He'd get close then "step on his poncho."  He may have retired without getting one. [/drift]

[davedove]

^ they (The USAF) are still trying to separate as much as possible from old Army throwbacks. 

Which would make some since if nobody else had the medal, but every other service has one.