Seniors and Cadets wearing Sage Green Boots

[SarDragon]

I believe the discussion was regarding historical events, since the statements were in the past tense - was - and the comment specifically mentioned flimsy cards, which went away in 1999.

[Eclipse]

I believe the discussion was regarding historical events, since the statements were in the past tense - was - and the comment specifically mentioned flimsy cards, which went away in 1999.

The thing NHQ sends me every year is flimsier then my local Park's pool pass, and is literally the same stock as my library card.

[RMW14]

Which it of course does, since all senior members are required to have a photo on file in eServices.

Just curious if you were being sarcastic or if this is really in the regs somewhere? I have a few seniors that refuse to upload a photo into eServices even after I offered to take the picture and size it correctly to make it easier on them to upload.

Well, never mind, I decided to poke around in the regs and found it myself! 
CAPR 39-2 1.15.2

1.15.2. Active members, fifty year members, life members, legislative members and cadets 18 and over will receive a photo membership card. These members must upload a passport-style photo with a plain white or off white background into their member record through eServices. Once the photo has been validated by the unit commander, the initial membership card will be processed. All other membership categories will receive a similar membership card without a photo. CAP will provide one membership card free of charge each year upon joining/renewal. Replacements for lost or stolen cards may be ordered at any time for a $3 fee. These cards may be purchased through eServices. Membership cards are not automatically reissued when members are promoted or transfer units; however, new cards will be provided when individuals change categories of membership, i.e., patron to active, or cadet to active or have a change in name.

[Eclipse]

This has been a hard-fast requirement for a number of years, and one which a lot of commanders are unaware of.

[SarDragon]

Well, then, your definition of flimsy differs from mine. While the current ID cards are thinner than the previous version of membership card, they are still sturdier than those issued in 1998 and prior.

I have been issued seven different flavors of membership cards over the course of my membership, and the current one is the most functional of them all, having my name, CAPID, grade, membership status, expiration date, picture, and two different bar codes. The only thing missing that used to be on the cards is the unit ID, which, IMHO, is of questionable usefulness. I don't know how thick a card you think we need, but I'm not experiencing structural failures on my current cards.

[stillamarine]

I got my new ID the other day, I thought it was gonna float away in the wind. I'm afraid to get it wet.

[Eclipse]

I don't know how thick a card you think we need, but I'm not experiencing structural failures on my current cards.

How about the same as an average driver's license?

Granted, the average member never uses their card as an identification card, nor gets near a military base, but for those that do, it might be
nice not to get "the look", granting again that "the look" comes for other reasons as well.

Comparing it to the "cards of olde" fails when you consider that at one point all we had were form 19's, which members
and commanders could literally make themselves, but this was also at a time when military IDs looked like a grade school art project
made with a broken typewriter.

[SarDragon]

What's with the continual "my right is more right than your right"? And shifting the goalposts, changing the discussion from thickness to appearance in general, is poor form.

Here's the results of some comparative measurements:

Two current CAP ID cards are thicker than a credit card, which is thicker than my CA drivers license, which is thicker than either of my military IDs, which are thicker than a single CAP ID.

Since my caliper is MIA, I've used the thickness of a new dollar bill as a unit of measurement, and compared each type of ID with stacks of varying size. A dollar bill is approximately .11 mm thick.

Credit card - 7
Previous style CAP memb card - 6.5
My library card - 6.5
CA DL - 6
Mil ID - 5
CAP ID - 4.5

I don't know what you expect of a CAP ID, performance-wise, but it sounds like too much. Regarding CAPF 19, it was made of the same stock as the pre-1989 cards, and is not germane to the discussion.

As for the appearance of mil IDs, exactly what are you talking about? I've had one, of one color or another since I was 10, and the appearance didn't materially change until they went to the current direct printed form in 1993. Prior to that, they were hand typed, the picture was a Polaroid taped to the front of the card, and then the card was laminated. I used to make them. I do not understand "grade school art project". Could you do any better with the existing resources?

[capsmov]

There was a really great proposal for a CAP ID card back in 2005 when they made the switch to the current ID Card. It made sense, looked professional and was completely compatible with the current DBIDS, not to mention could have been given the certificates to log onto the Air Force NIPR net when needed such as CAP Chaplains on Military Support or other mission essential work. Does anyone know why it was shot down?

[abdsp51]

There was a really great proposal for a CAP ID card back in 2005 when they made the switch to the current ID Card. It made sense, looked professional and was completely compatible with the current DBIDS, not to mention could have been given the certificates to log onto the Air Force NIPR net when needed such as CAP Chaplains on Military Support or other mission essential work. Does anyone know why it was shot down?

Cost.  Plus there is no need for CAP to have access to the AF network.

[capsmov]

Cost.  Plus there is no need for CAP to have access to the AF network.

Beg to differ in my experience. In Germany and the rest of the overseas squadrons they don't receive a cent from National in regards to any money nor equipment. The USAF supported CAP there with letting them use their NIPR computers. If you didn't have an Air Force CAC then too bad or you had to get issued one with the blue stripe on it. Also we had a CAP Chaplain who was on MS duty approved by NHQ to conduct the services at the main chapel while they waited for an AD Chaplain to come aboard. I remember he had trouble again getting on the network as well and had to be issued a blue striped CAC. Lastly, in Germany if we couldn't get on the Air Force network then forget ever having the cadets fly on the Aero Club planes also forget being on the LAN for MSG support. Lots of reasons why some squadrons are already on the USAF network whether you knew it or not.

[NIN]

Cost.  Plus there is no need for CAP to have access to the AF network.

Beg to differ in my experience. In Germany and the rest of the overseas squadrons they don't receive a cent from National in regards to any money nor equipment. The USAF supported CAP there with letting them use their NIPR computers. If you didn't have an Air Force CAC then too bad or you had to get issued one with the blue stripe on it. Also we had a CAP Chaplain who was on MS duty approved by NHQ to conduct the services at the main chapel while they waited for an AD Chaplain to come aboard. I remember he had trouble again getting on the network as well and had to be issued a blue striped CAC. Lastly, in Germany if we couldn't get on the Air Force network then forget ever having the cadets fly on the Aero Club planes also forget being on the LAN for MSG support. Lots of reasons why some squadrons are already on the USAF network whether you knew it or not.

Contrast that with my unit, in a National Guard Armory, who are told "Yeah, no access to the internet. Ever."  A previous commander even interpreted this to mean we couldn't have a cellular hotspot ("Uh, boss, that means that we'd need to put our smartphones in airplane mode when we get on the reservation..")

But this is quite far afield of OP's original topic, so perhaps the mods might want to weigh in here.

[abdsp51]

Cost.  Plus there is no need for CAP to have access to the AF network.

Beg to differ in my experience.  In Germany and the rest of the overseas squadrons they don't receive a cent from National in regards to any money nor equipment. The USAF supported CAP there with letting them use their NIPR computers. If you didn't have an Air Force CAC then too bad or you had to get issued one with the blue stripe on it. Also we had a CAP Chaplain who was on MS duty approved by NHQ to conduct the services at the main chapel while they waited for an AD Chaplain to come aboard. I remember he had trouble again getting on the network as well and had to be issued a blue striped CAC. Lastly, in Germany if we couldn't get on the Air Force network then forget ever having the cadets fly on the Aero Club planes also forget being on the LAN for MSG support. Lots of reasons why some squadrons are already on the USAF network whether you knew it or not.

You can do all of that without being on the network.  And you wanna bet on receiving aid from NHQ?  You do not speak for all OS units.  And the AF allowed you to have access. There is no need day to day for CAP to have access to AF NIPR. 

Try again...

[kwe1009]

Over 56,000 CAP members and probably less than 500 have an actual need for a CAC.  Definitely not worth the cost.  At best I could maybe see an argument for commanders (squadron, group, wing, region, national) to have one but even that is a stretch.

Also, a CAC with a blue stripe is for non-US citizens.

If you are on an AF base you may be able to get Internet without a CAC.  Most bases have an non-Mil network that is used by places like the library and you may be able to get access to that network. 

Contrast that with my unit, in a National Guard Armory, who are told "Yeah, no access to the internet. Ever."  A previous commander even interpreted this to mean we couldn't have a cellular hotspot ("Uh, boss, that means that we'd need to put our smartphones in airplane mode when we get on the reservation..")

But this is quite far afield of OP's original topic, so perhaps the mods might want to weigh in here.

That is a pretty hard interpretation there.  At the very least that commander should have asked the NG if cell phones were OK instead of doing what he did.  Crazy...

[abdsp51]

I'll add this as well.  Since many SMs of an OS unit will have NIPR access due to their day jobs(IE most will be in a DOD employment capacity) no need for OS units to have a CAC type ID.

[NIN]

Contrast that with my unit, in a National Guard Armory, who are told "Yeah, no access to the internet. Ever."  A previous commander even interpreted this to mean we couldn't have a cellular hotspot ("Uh, boss, that means that we'd need to put our smartphones in airplane mode when we get on the reservation..")

That is a pretty hard interpretation there.  At the very least that commander should have asked the NG if cell phones were OK instead of doing what he did.  Crazy...

I know,  right? We talked him off that ledge. 



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[SarDragon]

Annnnnnnd, I think we're done here.

Click.