Various things

[WoodlandSARman]

For those that PT at meetings. When I say PT I mean PT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you do formation PT like what we did at encampment or is it everyone in a gaggle doing their own thing? I just got back into cap and my old unit and and trying to turn things around back to the old hardcore days.

Last PT it was play time, when the run came some of the female cadets made it HALF A LAP before they decided they wanted to go inside. I sent the CC after them and they said they were "sick" but whats funny is they were laughing on the way in and having a goold old time.

I made it rather clear to everyone that at the next PT (next week) we will do formation PT and it will no longer be play time. I don't see a point in PT when between exercises everyone is standing around laughing and playing stupid games.


On discipline, a few of my cadets like to "wear the uniform when they choose to". I being one of the former hardcore cadets now senior member went to the cadet staff and told them to fix it and the other issues pronto. One of them last meeting mentioned having a spead sheet with everyones names on it. Any cadet that disrespects another cadet, chooses not to wear a unifrom, does not salute or hit the wall for an officer gets a mark. After 3 marks or so of any infraction it is taken to the senior members. This will more then likley reset every 6 months or so because people make honest mistakes with the small stuff. Per mark the cadet is asked to write a 500 word essay on why the mistake in general hurts them and the program ect ect (since we can't do individual PT anymore  )
From what we can tell this would no break any regs and would be done quietly and would be very effective. The cadets that go the longest with no marks get rewards, like leading drill, teaching a class, ect ect.
We are wanting to bring this up at the staff meeting on Monday. If the essay is a bad idea then it could still be brought to the senior members. Again, everything done quietly and in private.
Its a cadet squadron but being a former cadet I have been asked by the cadet staff to help make things the way they used to me so I am just looking for some info and guidance.
This unit used to be CG national and regional champs and one of the most respected squadrons/GT's in the wing and region and now well, its not because everyone but me and one other person has left. Its bad enough that I have to remined people to salute and wear their uniform..... If used to be that you were scared to death to show up with a loose string on your pants a quarter inch long.

[RiverAux]

I'm not sure I've ever seen too many cadets show up at a meeting without a uniform.  Seniors -- yes, but not cadets. 

[BillB]

Show films of past cadet activities, or explain the "old" cadet program to cadets, and the majority say that's the kind of program they want in their Squadron. But to a big extent, you no longer can run the old style program. Cadets want a military program, the more military the better, but trying to run the old program often violates the provisions of CPPT. While parts including organized PT might improve the effectiveness in a Squadron, the fact that some of the girls you mentioned quit doing the mile run means that they can't be promoted. So the organized PT might help cadets progress. The danger comes in when the military aspects of the program are carried to an extreme. The old style Boot Camp attitude in a Squadron is now a no-no.

[jimmydeanno]

When I say PT I mean PT!!!!!!!!!!!!

trying to turn things around back to the old hardcore days.

PT and it will no longer be play time.

I being one of the former hardcore cadets 

or hit the wall for an officer gets a mark.

Per mark the cadet is asked to write a 500 word essay

(since we can't do individual PT anymore  )

From what we can tell this would no break any regs and would be done quietly and would be very effective.

I have been asked by the cadet staff to help make things the way they used to be

It used to be that you were scared to death to show up with a loose string on your pants a quarter inch long.

First question, how long have you not been a cadet?  It is important to remember that you are no longer one and that your role has changed.

I completely agree that they way (it sounds like) your squadron is running is unacceptable in terms of discipline and C&C.  However, turning your cadet corp into a hitler youth is unacceptable.

The purpose of the cadet program is to guide and mentor the cadets to learn about leadership to prepare themselves to be of service...

Running your typical squadron meetings as though it is encampment, functionally does not work - you tend to lose the operational tempo of your unit because everyone is waiting to be told exactly what to do and when to do it.

I am particularly interested in your last statement about "being scared to death."  Is the environment you want in your squadron to be one of fear?  There is a difference between being stern and acting like an... [language filter].

Remember that the cadets are going to view you as the example of what they should be and how they should act.  I think it would be terrible if your cadets thought that good leadership was elitism and full metal jacket.

The purpose of the cadet program isn't to be Paris Island, but it is important to have structure and discipline - but to what extreme?  When does it become impractical and disadventageous?

Jimmy.

P.S. I don't recall ever seeing anything in the D&C manual about 'hitting the wall' for an officer...

[capchiro]

You may want to back off and take it easy.  Hitting the wall is a no-no and as far as writing essays, it's not part of the program.  You can't just be adding things to the program.  The Reg's are pretty clear on hazing and the punishment is a bad news.  I have recently heard about more 2b's for hazing than almost anything else.  Todays youth have been told to report any potential abuse and they will.  When we were cadets, we were afraid of adults and authority and submitted to their desires.  That is not the case today.  They will report you in a minute and hazing is nothing more than making someone feel uncomfortable or embarrassed in front of their peers.  Caution Will Robinson Danger, Danger..

[WoodlandSARman]

I was a cadet from 97-02ish. The old days compared to now.

When I said scared to death it was because the squadron had people in it that were very strong leaders that you did NOT want to disapoint, it was not the fear of push-ups, it was the fear of disapointing the people that you respected, people that were going out at wining region CG's and a national.

So far the cadets are happy with what I am trying to do. I have yet to get on a non staff cadet. If I see something I go to the CC. Only once have I gone to the flight sgt about something and it was advice and it was because the CC was busy with some IACE cadets.

I thought that maybe the essays might be a bad idea. At the very least we can just reward the cadets that excel. IE promotions, statt positions, GT and CG slots, ect ect.

The problem with PT is that the mile times are a joke untill you get some serious stripes on you. They just see it that when it comes time for a promotion that they will run hard that PT day for their promotion.
I DO think organized PT is the way to go. I let the cadets run things, the cadets asked me to help get things back to the way they should be and still be legal and I said ok. A lot of it has to do with particular cadets and seniors that are no longer in the program. One of them was a Infantry CSM who was forced out due to time in and went back active on voulentary recall and is now at Benning. We are about to loose two staff cadets, one being the CC and next week all the positions are changing so its going to be a nightmare for a while. One of the cadets that was a flight sgt is the one that picks and chooses when he wears his uniform and I found out last meeting they took away his flight sgt position.

Hitting the wall (standing at attention against the wall when an officer passes) has been a squadron tradition for as long as I can remember. There also used to be hitting the wall (not hard its a term) for millitary NCO's, and staff NCO, we have been letting that one go for a while put are talking about bringing it back. Again, its a squadron tradition and is not painfull or anything hahaha.

The full metal jacket stuff in my sig is mostly a joke from my cadet days. I was known as Pyle... I thought it was funny untill I saw the movie!

Does everyone agree that ditching the essays but still keeping track of everything to lead to rewards for the cadets that excel is ok? Some of the problem is we have a few cadets that are just there to hang out with their friends or have a crush on the CC.....
I gave a speech on wearing the uniforms and the next week almost everyone wore it. I also plan to give a class on teh old days of what it meant to be a cadet. Al in all we have good cadets, they just need guidance in some ways and those of us that are former cadets have to remember we were them once.

[capchiro]

I think you are definitely on the right track.  Rewards are the way to go.  Some kids hate writing and it might cause them to drop out and that isn't really your goal.  Also, giving them speeches about stuff is good to motivate them and sometimes, they will get so motivated they will do more than we can "make" them do on their own.  They may try to prove on their own that they can be as good as the "good old days" and that is what you are after.  Just watch some of the cadet leaders and don't let them get too rough on the younger ones and I think you will have a great squadron.  Welcome back in the saddle.

[WoodlandSARman]

I have a good cadet staff. When I first came back I can't rmember how many times they said "sir, we can't do that anymore"

HAHAHAHAHAHA

They have also pointed out to the cadets at least as far as i know thats its NOT GOOD when the seniors have better uniforms then the cadets. As in patches look nice, its ironed, boots are shined, ect ect.

I plan to start PTing with them, not in flight but at a small distance to lead by example. If I start to out PT them I think it may push some of them to push harder so others don't laugh when a senior member is out in front!

I remember that when I was a cadet that was a huge no no, a cadet never lost in PT to a senior, that is, when seniors PT'd!

I will say that I am having just as much fun being a senior as I was a cadet, maybe even more.

[ZigZag911]

Leadership by personal example, positive motivation (have you considered a 'cadet of the month" competition? public praise from squadron CC/DCC or cadet CC for job well done or significant accomplishments or improvement?), guide the cadet staff....you're hitting most of the right notes, get some feedback from other seniors, as well as cadet staff.

[WoodlandSARman]

The problem with the other seniors is we don't have has many as we used to. We used to have quite a few.

Now we have two LTC's (both rather advanced in years and talking about getting out in 2-3 years) and they are our paperwork people, the other is a new 2LT who has 9 kids and trying for the 10th!, he helps as much as he can and we go to each other with issues and questions. Then there is out Squadron commander and she stays pratty busy with that and her kids and newborn but gets a lot done for whats on her plate. At the staff meeting next week I am going to bring up us trying to recruite more senior members. Right now we don't have enough if you ask me. Only 3 of us that can really go out and do stuff with the cadents including our commander. Not enough for a roster of 50 cadets 20 regulars or more if you ask me.

We have a cadet who just joined and his father is a foot doctor and a former Maj and medic in the Air Force, I have mentioned us trying to talk to him about joinin in the past because most of th emeetings his son is at he is at sitting off to the side. He would also be a valuable addition being a former officer and medic.

Once things turn around a little more my father is going to start teaching a class or two every now and then. He has been AF/ANG for 27 years doing nothing but aviation and used to help out when I was a cadet. I also know a former JROTC instructor who was a Maj in the ARMY and Infantry and spent some time in Vietnam and I know he would give a class or two from time to time. He even said he will probably join one day but not right now (30 plus years in and needs a break). This would also be more motivation.

I think cadet of the month is a very good idea, I forgot all about that.
I thought about using cadets as good examples, say cadet john doe has his rank/grade on better then anyone else, we could use his uniform as a good example? As long as it was not allways the same cadet this could be a positive for that cadet and the others?

Another really good thing we have is our commander is a former Spaatz cadet, I was a cadet with her at that unit and her and I are the only former cadets in the unit so we work rather well together and have a pretty good understanding so far.

From what I can tell the majority of the cadets want it to go back to the old days (as much as it can) they just need guidance. The staff themselves pretty much told me to be hard on them (the staff).

I do think a class on what it used to mean to be apart of that unit and what it meant to be a cadet would be very helpfull.

If there are any good videos online let me know. As in ones you can play off the net.

[Grumpy]

My problem is, I'm 62 years old and I've been wearing an AF uniform either in CAP or the AF since 1959.  I'm starting to get tired of it.  Besides, at 62 I think I probably look like these little ol' guys who you see on Memorial Day running around wearing their WWII uniforms.

[Chappie]

My problem is, I'm 62 years old and I've been wearing an AF uniform either in CAP or the AF since 1959.  I'm starting to get tired of it.  Besides, at 62 I think I probably look like these little ol' guys who you see on Memorial Day running around wearing their WWII uniforms.

Grumpy, you are just saying that because it is true       Do you plan to be at Encampment?

[Grumpy]

I shall be there with bells on (or what ever else is appropriate).  I'm trying to complete TWO years in the vertical position.   

[Chappie]

I shall be there with bells on (or what ever else is appropriate).  I'm trying to complete TWO years in the vertical position.   

Good to hear...will see you and Chaplain Nelson there.

[ZigZag911]

You definitely need more seniors for proper supervision, but it sounds as if you have some good leads on recruits already.

When I mentioned present seniors, I meant to get their views on what the unit needs, and how some of your innovations (or returns to yesteryear!) are working out.

[WoodlandSARman]

Yeah I am hoping to be able to bring that up Monday.

[WoodlandSARman]

Well the meeting ended up being rather short because there was so much to go over I did not have the chance to bring much up but I do think everyone feels we need to get more seniors in. i found out one of the cadets mother is a current or retired Maj in the ARMY Guard. She is at every meeting doing work stuff.

One of the guys that used to run the squadron is an ARMY CSM now back at Benning, he has been in for I think 34+ years.

I had them do formation PT last night and that seemed to help things a lot, almost no play time.

It seems I will be the Squadron ES officer and GTL soon, was told I will more then likeley get another job on top of that. I hope not hahaha. Our numbers are starting to go back up. We are now back in the number 1 slot of most members in the wing so thats good. We just need more seniors.
We have a few events that are big coming up that I will not be able to make, I have to try and take off this weekend for a SAR eval and took off for NESA and I don't have paid vacation so after this weekend its pretty much meetings only for me for a while. This leaves our commander and one other senior who is VERY busy to do things very activley. I can only see it streching us out more with the more cadets that we keep getting. If it continues I bet we will have enough to have two stong flights by the end of the year.


Any of you in Cadet Squadrons and are seniors? How involved are your seniors? When I was a cadet we had a VERY good cadet staff and the seniors did not have to be involved much. This has all changed because they are ALL gone and its taking years to rebuild I think.  I try not to get involved and try and just watch as best I can. How many sneiors do you guys have and cadets?

[jimmydeanno]

We are a composite squadron.  We currently have 25 active cadets and about 10 seniors.

There is an interesting dicotomy within the senior structure.  When you ask "how many seniors are active," it's hard to explain.

The 'operations' senior members are active "only when needed," so the pilots fly when the pilots are needed, etc.  Now, what I'd consider active are only the seniors that work with the cadet program (DCC, LO, MLO, etc).  The are active in ES, but of all the seniors they are the most 'dedicated.'

[WoodlandSARman]

Well we have a few that are there at least 3 out of the 4 weeks during the month. THats what I consider active.

Composite squadrons are really weird, its almost like for themost part its a cadet squadron and Senior Squadron that have merged hahaha.

Sadly there are a lot of seniors out there that want nothing to do with cadets.  Some do though, one of the guys on my team at NESA this year is out of a senior Squadron in Vegas, he had never even SEEN a cadet untill then and he loved working with them after that.

Everyone needs a mentor in this program if you ask me.

[dwb]

I was a cadet from 97-02ish. The old days compared to now.

Not exactly.  PT for punishment wasn't allowed when you were a cadet, you know.  I'm sorry to say, you are not qualified to speak on "the old days" of being a cadet.

I personally think the "hitting the wall" tradition is stupid.  Smacks of acting like what the military is perceived to be.  I've shared office space with military folks, their day-to-day working environment is nothing like that.

Also, you would do well to spend some time learning how to be a senior member, specifically, how to be a senior member that administers a cadet program.  It's not the same as being a cadet.