Cadet programs is not one of CAP's primary missions

[Eclipse]

You misread what I said.

ES is not a core component of the cadet Program.  You can go your whole career, progress without skipping anything and never do any ES.

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

As to being a CFI to do O-Rides, unless your state has a addition policy, you don't need to be a CFI to be an O-Pilot. 

[ZigZag911]

Bottom line is that one of AF's main reasons for supporting CAP (besides Congress telling them to do so!) is the cadet program.

[lordmonar]

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

[DNall]

River, You keep quoting that section when it isn't the definative tasking. No where in there does it say SaR, crashed planes, ELTs, disaster, HLS, CN, preparing a pool of youth for success in potential military service, or really anything that we do. It's an extremely braod statement meant to grant the AF latitude to utilize CAP across a wide range of tasks. You should do some searching & look up some of the many statements Gen Fogleman made about CAP when he was CSAF. He's the one that changed it to "non-combat missions of the AF" & started the line of strategic thinking that's goingon today both here & all the way to the A3/SHA level & beyond.

Bottom line is that one of AF's main reasons for supporting CAP (besides Congress telling them to do so!) is the cadet program.

That's correct. The fact is there is a much cheaper way to do all of our ES misisons w/o there being a CAP. They support those operations because it's good PR/public service of the AF & because the spare resources support cadets who in turn support them - and that's all they care about. Now with that said, the cadet program is weak, mostly in that it's micro-tiny. They couldn't marshall these resources to cadets w/o ES being there also. All members need to accept that they are dependent on each other & w/o the other they are out of business for good.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

It's not required (though I wish it were required & down w/ the COP), it's one of three options. The others being a major internal (above Sq level) or external AE project, or a >10min presentation on CAP to an outside group (which you should have done in recruiting at some point & should have someone in your Sq doing quarterly just for PR reasons).

Eclipse,
While you're correct that you CAN do only ES & never involve yourself w/ cadets or AE. That is flat out undesirable (to say it tactfully). The intent of the program is to make you a well-rounded member, and you are supposed to spend significant time over the course of your career in each mission area. That may be as a long-term o-pilot as you focus on MP & do a stint as an AEO for a year or two, or that may be that you focus intently on one program at a time & work your way around. If you think it's okay for you to be just an ES member though, you're wrong, and look to my comment above for one of many reasons why.

[RiverAux]

River, You keep quoting that section when it isn't the definative tasking. No where in there does it say SaR, crashed planes, ELTs, disaster, HLS, CN, preparing a pool of youth for success in potential military service, or really anything that we do. It's an extremely braod statement meant to grant the AF latitude to utilize CAP across a wide range of tasks. You should do some searching & look up some of the many statements Gen Fogleman made about CAP when he was CSAF. He's the one that changed it to "non-combat missions of the AF" & started the line of strategic thinking that's goingon today both here & all the way to the A3/SHA level & beyond.

And I clearly said that cadet programs was part of one of our broad programs (AE).  Whats the problem? 

My statement about the cadet program is no different than if I said "Search and Rescue is not one of CAP's primary missions.".  The primary mission would be responding to emergencies and SAR is just one of the emergencies we respond to. 

Cadet programs is an important method by which we accomplish our AE program, it assists in our emergency services program, and may accomplish some of the non-combat support mission by providing potential future recruits to the AF.  It just is not a program that exists only for itself.  We don't do cadet programs just to do cadet programs -- we do it to fulfill our responsibilities in other areas.

DNALL-- A very small fraction of CAP's national budget is spent directly on cadet programs and even less at the Wing level where they often have to raise funds to accomplish what they need to do.  The AF is not spending much more on ES and aircraft aquisition just as a backdoor to support the cadet program. 

[DNall]

The amount spent on an item in the budget doesn't have anything to do with its importance.

The AF could just as easily hand all these missions to states, who the missions actually belong to, and not pay them a dime. The states are obligated to do the missions. It's they that really get the benefit. Don't think for a second that if CAP weren't around that AF would be up there flying C130s trying to turn off non-distress ELTs. Point being they really don't have to spend more than a 10th this much money. They really like the cadet program though & want it to have tese resources at its disposal. The only way to do that is let CAP have enough ES to justify the planes.

I'm not saying cadet program is better than ES, it's not, and ES isn't better than Cadet programs either. It's just absolute fact that niether one can survive alone.

Otherwise what's the point of this thread? CP is not one of our main missions, SaR is not one of our main missions? You're reading too much into a small item that isn't remotely all of our charter or congressional mandate. Now why did you post this? What are you trying to find out. or what particular insight are you trying to bring to everyone to change how they look at CAP? I mean if you're just splitting hairs to get a rise out of people, that's annoying & stop it.

[flyguy06]

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

Actually, you can either earn the Yeager award OR make a public presentation to a non-CAP group. I frequently go to High School JROTC units and talk about CAP, so I have that covered.

[brasda91]

Per the National website:

OUR PROGRAMS
The Primary Missions of Civil Air Patrol

In 1946, Congress granted a charter to Civil Air Patrol, charging its members with three missions. First, CAP was to promote aviation. As years passed, that mission expanded to include aerospace education as well. Second, CAP was to provide a training program to support the nation's youth in contributing to society and preparing for successful adult lives. Finally, CAP was to continue its emergency services, the work for which CAP is still best known today.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse,
While you're correct that you CAN do only ES & never involve yourself w/ cadets or AE. That is flat out undesirable (to say it tactfully). The intent of the program is to make you a well-rounded member, and you are supposed to spend significant time over the course of your career in each mission area. That may be as a long-term o-pilot as you focus on MP & do a stint as an AEO for a year or two, or that may be that you focus intently on one program at a time & work your way around. If you think it's okay for you to be just an ES member though, you're wrong, and look to my comment above for one of many reasons why.

I think I said the exact opposite:

ES is not a core component of the cadet Program.  You can go your whole career, progress without skipping anything and never do any ES.

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

For the record I think members are shortchanging themselves if they don't participate in all three parts of CAP.

[Eclipse]

And I clearly said that cadet programs was part of one of our broad programs (AE).  Whats the problem? 

My statement about the cadet program is no different than if I said "Search and Rescue is not one of CAP's primary missions.".  The primary mission would be responding to emergencies and SAR is just one of the emergencies we respond to. 

Cadet programs is an important method by which we accomplish our AE program, it assists in our emergency services program, and may accomplish some of the non-combat support mission by providing potential future recruits to the AF.  It just is not a program that exists only for itself.  We don't do cadet programs just to do cadet programs -- we do it to fulfill our responsibilities in other areas.

Sorry, yes we do.

The Cadet program stands on its own, and could with or without ES or AE.  We could remove both
from the CP and it would not be substantially changed.

Saying S&R isn't a core mission is true in the same way that encampments aren't a core mission, nor is rocketry.  These are respective components of the actual missions which are ES, CP & AE.

To say anything else is just being legalistic for the sake of having an argument.

Tags - MIKE

[RiverAux]

The Cadet program stands on its own, and could with or without ES or AE.

Thats a different argument.  All three could be done without the other in the grand scheme of things.  But, that isn't our charge. 

The "3-missions" way of thinking that CAP has been using to think of itself for many years is a dramatic over-simplification of what CAP is supposed to be doing and has obviously resulted in other purposes for which we are supposed to exist being forgotten. 

[Eclipse]

Well, I don't think we could argue that, but its not really the gist of the original post...

[Eagle400]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Cadet Programs is the most important mission in CAP, and that without Cadet Programs, the Air Force would have little to nothing to do with CAP.

Why does the Air Force still have faith in CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force see real competence and adherence to rules and regulations within CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force find CAP members who wear their uniforms properly and hold others to a high standard of uniform wear?  Cadet Programs.  And what is responsible for producing stellar recruits to the Air Force?  Cadet Programs. 

Without Cadet Programs, CAP would lose a lot.   

[Ned]

On this we agree!

[Eagle400]

[LtCol White]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Cadet Programs is the most important mission in CAP, and that without Cadet Programs, the Air Force would have little to nothing to do with CAP.

Why does the Air Force still have faith in CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force see real competence and adherence to rules and regulations within CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force find CAP members who wear their uniforms properly and hold others to a high standard of uniform wear?  Cadet Programs.  And what is responsible for producing stellar recruits to the Air Force?  Cadet Programs. 

Without Cadet Programs, CAP would lose a lot.   

VERY well said

[ZigZag911]

Without CP, the Air Force might very willingly lose us!

[mikeylikey]

^^  Why don't they cut us loose?  They already have JROTC.  Cut CAP funding.......dump it all in ROTC.  I think I remember reading here last year that more CAP cadets go into the AF as do JROTC cadets.  I know more USAFA are prior CAP members......they used to have a class breakdown on the academy website that showed the number of cadets with cap experience and JROTC experience.

[arajca]

The issue with JROTC units is there is a limited number that can be established. The military has a specific formula for how many Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine JROTC units can be operating. CAP provides an additional source for the AF outside of this formula.

[SARMedTech]

Our  single biggest obligation to Cadets throughout the organization is to teach them to be leaders and that service to others really does make a difference. To me, if a Cadet learns how to fly or ever gets anywhere near an a/c is secondary. Our job as Officers is to train them to be outstanding young people, proud of their country and honored to be able to serve it and its citizenry in times of need and hopefully instill these ideals sufficiently that its makes them better people. Our goal as far as the Cadets are concerned is to have them leave the Cadet program a little better than they were when they came in. Able to stand a little taller, be more confident and understand the value of selfless service.