Cadet programs is not one of CAP's primary missions

[RiverAux]

Over and over again we're told that Emergency Services, Aerospace Education, and Cadet Programs are the three primary missions of the CAP.  We can find this stated in all sorts of CAP publications, but can you find such a statement where it really matters? 

Here are the purposes of CAP according to our founding legislation:

((1) To provide an organization to—
A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and
(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.
(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.
(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.
(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions.

Cadet programs are only mentioned in passing as part of our aviation education mission.

To restate the above in an easier to understand format, our primary missions are:
1.  Aerospace Education.
2.  Promote civil aviation in local communities (in other words, support the local airport).
3.  Emergency Services
4.  Any other noncombat mission the AF wants to let us help with. 

Now, the cadet program is undoubtedly the most important aspect of our Aerospace Education mission and is one of the specific named target groups for AE work according to the law.  I doubt there is a more effective way to communicate our AE message to that age group, and we do it well. 

But, the cadets are just a means to achieve our AE goal.  Broadly speaking they might also fall into our AF noncombat mission role by providing initial military training and aviation education to potential recruits.

Now, everybody knows that our actual senior member AE program is very weak.  However, that to some extent is actually compensated for through other aspects of CAP.  For example, all our flying programs, including the aviation-related ES specialties, meet the goal of providing aerospace education and training to our senior members in some way.   

Why bring it up?  I don't expect any major changes, just want people to think a bit before they say cadet programs are one of our primary purposes.  They are just one method by which we fulfill our overall aerospace education and training purpose. 

By the way, I am a former cadet so I fully recognize the value of the program and this should not be considered a slam against it. 

[CAP428]

I don't understand your logic.  Are you bitter that CAP puts emphasis on cadet programs becuase you like ES?

Like it or not, in the legislation or not, cadet programs ARE one of the primary missions of Civil Air Patrol.

Sorry to burst your bubble.


That's kind of like saying a restaurant waiter's primary job is not to refill drinks becuase the job description probably talks more about serving food.

Cadet programs are a part of our history, started only about a year after the organization began.  Ever since, it has been a very important part, and for many units, the most emphasized part of the program.
Some things require what I call the "DUH factor."

Like, for example, the answer to this question:

Is cadet programs a primary mission of Civil Air Patrol?

...would be:  [looks at CAP] " DUH."

[Eclipse]

You're kidding, right?

If anything CAP has only two REAL missions.

CP & ES.  AE is just lip service and generally executed in the other two.

Seen another way:

There are cadets units with no ES.

There are Senior units with no cadets.

There are no AE units.

This really smacks of troll-town.

[RiverAux]

I don't understand your logic.  Are you bitter that CAP puts emphasis on cadet programs becuase you like ES?

Not at all.  I wouldn't be in CAP now if I hadn't been a cadet.  If anything I fully recognize that the senior members involved in cadet programs are just about the most dedicated members we have. 

The reason we have cadets is to educate them about aerospace education and give them aviation training. 

If anything CAP has only two REAL missions.
CP & ES.  AE is just lip service and generally executed in the other two

You don't recognize that the cadet program is an Aerospace Education program?

If anything we totally ignore one of our stated missions (promote civil aviation) and are barely used for another (AF non-combat support other than ES).

[CAP428]

The reason we have cadets is to educate them about aerospace education and give them aviation training. 

...

You don't recognize that the cadet program is an Aerospace Education program?

If anything we totally ignore one of our stated missions (promote civil aviation) and are barely used for another (AF non-combat support other than ES).

That's not true.  One, because the reason we have cadets is not to teach them aviation.  Proof:
The following is from page 2 of CAPR 52-16, the management for Cadet Programs:

1-1. The Cadet Program's Mission & Goal]s. The mission of the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program is to provide the youth of our nation with a quality program that enhances their leadership skills through an interest in aviation, and simultaneously provide service to the United States Air Force and the local community.

Notice that it mentions aviation is used as a vehicle to "enhance leadership skills".  I mean, think about it.  It would be CRAZY to have an entire program that takes up a good deal of an entire organization simply to teach aviation.  This is not a college course for students on the way to an aviation career, so why would we care if they know anything about aviation?  Therefore it makes more logical sense to see aviation simply as a means to an end, with the end in this case being the enhanced leadership skills of youth.

The following is taken from page 3 of CAPR 52-16, the regulation governing the administration of the Cadet Program.

b. Aerospace Education.
(1) Goal. The goals of the Cadet Program's aerospace education element are to inspire in youth a love of aviation, space, and technology; provide them with a foundation in aerospace's scientific principles; and introduce them to aerospace career opportunities.

Note the specific wording of the "Cadet Program's aerospace education element."  This shows ownership of the AE element by the Cadet Program, meaning that if anything, AE is  a subsection of the Cadet Program (though it is not limited to cadets.)

[Eclipse]

The CP exists to build leaders and good citizens.

As stated, AE is only an element.

And in many Senior units, or in the senior side of a composite unit, AE is non-existent.

Not in mine, and I'm not syaing its right, it just IS.

Just look on CAP.GOV to see what our missions are.

[CAP428]

Just look on CAP.GOC to see what our missions are.

Just out of curiosity, what is CAP.GOC?  I've never heard of it, or at least, whatever it is, never in that fashion.

[BillB]

CAP.GOV is the official web site. CAP.GOC is another site, rarely used. The GOC stands for Get Over Corporate. Thought everyone knew that

[RiverAux]

As I said when I started the thread, I do not dispute that a lot of CAP publications state other goals for the cadet program.  But, strticly speaking everything but AE is an "extra".  However, I will agree that if it weren't for the uniforms, leadership development, drill and ceremonies, emergency services, etc., we wouldn't have anywhere near as many cadets as we do as it is clear that these aspects of the program draw kids in much more than does the prospect of learning AE. 

Look at it this way.  We do not have an Air Force to develop great leaders, we have the Air Force to kill people and break things.  For CAP it could be said that we don't have cadet programs to develop the leadership ability of our youths, we have cadet programs in order to develop their interest in aerospace. 

Now, I am not advocating we do away with cadet programs or eliminate everything that is not AE.  It is a valuable program and I've spent a lot time trying to recruit cadets myself.  I'm just saying that the "3 mission" phrasing is not accurate.

[Eclipse]

I'm just saying that the "3 mission" phrasing is not accurate.

OK, I'll bite.

And we would care, because....?

[RiverAux]

Sorry, but accuracy is somewhat important to me.  Also, the "3-mission" phrasing ignores 1 mission entirely (support civil aviation) and partially ignores another (support non-combat missions of the AF -- parts of which can be found in ES and AE, but not entirely). 

[JaL5597]

Sorry, but accuracy is somewhat important to me.  Also, the "3-mission" phrasing ignores 1 mission entirely (support civil aviation) and partially ignores another (support non-combat missions of the AF -- parts of which can be found in ES and AE, but not entirely). 

I would gladly argue that "Support Civil Aviation" is part of the AE mission.  Just because you do not see it does not mean it doesn't exist.  There are 2 parts to the AE program, Internal Aerospace Education and External Aerospace Education.  Sounds to me like "External" means not within CAP aka general aviation and more.

I do not get the "Support non-combat missions of the Air Force" comment.  Air Force assigned missions cover alot of what we do as a program.  Oh wait.  It covers all of what we do.  After all we are the Auxillary of the Unit States Air Force.  That would be why we use Air Force nomenclature, wear Air Force uniforms, etc.

Yes the Cadet Program is tied into the other aspects of the program, but it is absolutly one of our missions and a rather vital part of the program. 

YMMV

[RiverAux]

I would gladly argue that "Support Civil Aviation" is part of the AE mission.

In a very general sense, maybe.  But to me "(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities" means a lot more than that.  To me that means doing stuff like having CAP members serve on local airport commissions, work for improvements to the local airport and things of that nature.

I do not get the "Support non-combat missions of the Air Force" comment.  Air Force assigned missions cover alot of what we do as a program.  Oh wait.  It covers all of what we do.  After all we are the Auxillary of the Unit States Air Force.  That would be why we use Air Force nomenclature, wear Air Force uniforms, etc.

As I said our ES work and some of the other things we do partially fulfill this duty.  However, we have not done anywhere near as much as we could in this regard.  See several of the threads on augmentation of the Air Force with CAP members for more on that topic.

[JaL5597]

I would gladly argue that "Support Civil Aviation" is part of the AE mission.

In a very general sense, maybe.  But to me "(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities" means a lot more than that.  To me that means doing stuff like having CAP members serve on local airport commissions, work for improvements to the local airport and things of that nature.

I do not get the "Support non-combat missions of the Air Force" comment.  Air Force assigned missions cover alot of what we do as a program.  Oh wait.  It covers all of what we do.  After all we are the Auxillary of the Unit States Air Force.  That would be why we use Air Force nomenclature, wear Air Force uniforms, etc.

As I said our ES work and some of the other things we do partially fulfill this duty.  However, we have not done anywhere near as much as we could in this regard.  See several of the threads on augmentation of the Air Force with CAP members for more on that topic.

I have been around long enough to know what people have been talking about.  I also see the issues I have to deal with on a weekly basis at the squadron level in making sure the current missions are given their due.  And as a wing level director I am also aware that there is alot going on beyond what does occur at the squadron level.

[lordmonar]

I think what we are confusing here is terminology.

CAP fulfills the five congressionally mandated objectives...by organizing itself into three "missions"  Cadets, Aerospace education, and Emergency Services.

Not any one of our missions fills any one AF the congressional missions but the three CAP missions overlap to fulfill all of our congressional mandates.

The Cadet Program is not specifically mentioned but it is assumed that the cadets are an integral part of CAP.

[flyguy06]

RiverAux,
I sure wish you could come and visit my Squadron. You said the Cadet Programis a part of AE. I know a squadron that has cadets. They participate in color guard ceremonies at community events. They holdleadership weekends. They they hold leadershipseminars. No flying. No discussion of aviation or aerospace. I think they need to incorporate that but they dont. Now you tell me that program is part of AE.

[Eclipse]

RiverAux,
I sure wish you could come and visit my Squadron. You said the Cadet Programis a part of AE. I know a squadron that has cadets. They participate in color guard ceremonies at community events. They holdleadership weekends. They they hold leadershipseminars. No flying. No discussion of aviation or aerospace. I think they need to incorporate that but they dont. Now you tell me that program is part of AE.

The CP is a structured curriculum with specific requirements for advancement.
You can ignore ES but you cannot ignore AE and still move forward.

I would be curious to know why they aren't doing o-rides, but otherwise if they are getting promoted, they must be doing AE.

[RiverAux]

RiverAux,
I sure wish you could come and visit my Squadron. You said the Cadet Programis a part of AE. I know a squadron that has cadets. They participate in color guard ceremonies at community events. They holdleadership weekends. They they hold leadershipseminars. No flying. No discussion of aviation or aerospace. I think they need to incorporate that but they dont. Now you tell me that program is part of AE.

Then they clearly are not doing all that they should be.  That isn't unusual unfortunately. 

[Eclipse]

Then they clearly are not doing all that they should be.  That isn't unusual unfortunately. 

Agreed.  CPFT is even worse, lots of units don't do it at all, yet cadets progress, which can mean only one thing in terms of the integrity of the unit CC, and it ain't positive.

[flyguy06]

RiverAux,
I sure wish you could come and visit my Squadron. You said the Cadet Programis a part of AE. I know a squadron that has cadets. They participate in color guard ceremonies at community events. They holdleadership weekends. They they hold leadershipseminars. No flying. No discussion of aviation or aerospace. I think they need to incorporate that but they dont. Now you tell me that program is part of AE.

The CP is a structured curriculum with specific requirements for advancement.
You can ignore ES but you cannot ignore AE and still move forward.

I would be curious to know why they aren't doing o-rides, but otherwise if they are getting promoted, they must be doing AE.

Eclipse,
I dont think you understand. Its not that anyone is choosing to ignore anything ES or AE. Its just we dont have the resources. We have nobody in our squadron that knows enough about ES to train us.

We do have pilots and thats good, but if youread my other posts, the pilots are just ther efor one reaosn. That dont care about training cadet and if I ask them to "hey, come out and teach a class", they say sure and then we dont see them for a few months. I am currently working on my CFI and I will change that situation around.

So, I just want folks to know, that we dont participate inthese things not because we dont want to, but because we dont have the resources. I would love to have a ful up Ground Team and I would love to see a bunch of 17 year old caet pilots running around, but I am only one man and I can only do so much.

[Eclipse]

You misread what I said.

ES is not a core component of the cadet Program.  You can go your whole career, progress without skipping anything and never do any ES.

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

As to being a CFI to do O-Rides, unless your state has a addition policy, you don't need to be a CFI to be an O-Pilot. 

[ZigZag911]

Bottom line is that one of AF's main reasons for supporting CAP (besides Congress telling them to do so!) is the cadet program.

[lordmonar]

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

[DNall]

River, You keep quoting that section when it isn't the definative tasking. No where in there does it say SaR, crashed planes, ELTs, disaster, HLS, CN, preparing a pool of youth for success in potential military service, or really anything that we do. It's an extremely braod statement meant to grant the AF latitude to utilize CAP across a wide range of tasks. You should do some searching & look up some of the many statements Gen Fogleman made about CAP when he was CSAF. He's the one that changed it to "non-combat missions of the AF" & started the line of strategic thinking that's goingon today both here & all the way to the A3/SHA level & beyond.

Bottom line is that one of AF's main reasons for supporting CAP (besides Congress telling them to do so!) is the cadet program.

That's correct. The fact is there is a much cheaper way to do all of our ES misisons w/o there being a CAP. They support those operations because it's good PR/public service of the AF & because the spare resources support cadets who in turn support them - and that's all they care about. Now with that said, the cadet program is weak, mostly in that it's micro-tiny. They couldn't marshall these resources to cadets w/o ES being there also. All members need to accept that they are dependent on each other & w/o the other they are out of business for good.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

It's not required (though I wish it were required & down w/ the COP), it's one of three options. The others being a major internal (above Sq level) or external AE project, or a >10min presentation on CAP to an outside group (which you should have done in recruiting at some point & should have someone in your Sq doing quarterly just for PR reasons).

Eclipse,
While you're correct that you CAN do only ES & never involve yourself w/ cadets or AE. That is flat out undesirable (to say it tactfully). The intent of the program is to make you a well-rounded member, and you are supposed to spend significant time over the course of your career in each mission area. That may be as a long-term o-pilot as you focus on MP & do a stint as an AEO for a year or two, or that may be that you focus intently on one program at a time & work your way around. If you think it's okay for you to be just an ES member though, you're wrong, and look to my comment above for one of many reasons why.

[RiverAux]

River, You keep quoting that section when it isn't the definative tasking. No where in there does it say SaR, crashed planes, ELTs, disaster, HLS, CN, preparing a pool of youth for success in potential military service, or really anything that we do. It's an extremely braod statement meant to grant the AF latitude to utilize CAP across a wide range of tasks. You should do some searching & look up some of the many statements Gen Fogleman made about CAP when he was CSAF. He's the one that changed it to "non-combat missions of the AF" & started the line of strategic thinking that's goingon today both here & all the way to the A3/SHA level & beyond.

And I clearly said that cadet programs was part of one of our broad programs (AE).  Whats the problem? 

My statement about the cadet program is no different than if I said "Search and Rescue is not one of CAP's primary missions.".  The primary mission would be responding to emergencies and SAR is just one of the emergencies we respond to. 

Cadet programs is an important method by which we accomplish our AE program, it assists in our emergency services program, and may accomplish some of the non-combat support mission by providing potential future recruits to the AF.  It just is not a program that exists only for itself.  We don't do cadet programs just to do cadet programs -- we do it to fulfill our responsibilities in other areas.

DNALL-- A very small fraction of CAP's national budget is spent directly on cadet programs and even less at the Wing level where they often have to raise funds to accomplish what they need to do.  The AF is not spending much more on ES and aircraft aquisition just as a backdoor to support the cadet program. 

[DNall]

The amount spent on an item in the budget doesn't have anything to do with its importance.

The AF could just as easily hand all these missions to states, who the missions actually belong to, and not pay them a dime. The states are obligated to do the missions. It's they that really get the benefit. Don't think for a second that if CAP weren't around that AF would be up there flying C130s trying to turn off non-distress ELTs. Point being they really don't have to spend more than a 10th this much money. They really like the cadet program though & want it to have tese resources at its disposal. The only way to do that is let CAP have enough ES to justify the planes.

I'm not saying cadet program is better than ES, it's not, and ES isn't better than Cadet programs either. It's just absolute fact that niether one can survive alone.

Otherwise what's the point of this thread? CP is not one of our main missions, SaR is not one of our main missions? You're reading too much into a small item that isn't remotely all of our charter or congressional mandate. Now why did you post this? What are you trying to find out. or what particular insight are you trying to bring to everyone to change how they look at CAP? I mean if you're just splitting hairs to get a rise out of people, that's annoying & stop it.

[flyguy06]

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

And AE is a required componant for the PD process too.  Level IV requires you to have the Yeager IIRC.

Actually, you can either earn the Yeager award OR make a public presentation to a non-CAP group. I frequently go to High School JROTC units and talk about CAP, so I have that covered.

[brasda91]

Per the National website:

OUR PROGRAMS
The Primary Missions of Civil Air Patrol

In 1946, Congress granted a charter to Civil Air Patrol, charging its members with three missions. First, CAP was to promote aviation. As years passed, that mission expanded to include aerospace education as well. Second, CAP was to provide a training program to support the nation's youth in contributing to society and preparing for successful adult lives. Finally, CAP was to continue its emergency services, the work for which CAP is still best known today.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse,
While you're correct that you CAN do only ES & never involve yourself w/ cadets or AE. That is flat out undesirable (to say it tactfully). The intent of the program is to make you a well-rounded member, and you are supposed to spend significant time over the course of your career in each mission area. That may be as a long-term o-pilot as you focus on MP & do a stint as an AEO for a year or two, or that may be that you focus intently on one program at a time & work your way around. If you think it's okay for you to be just an ES member though, you're wrong, and look to my comment above for one of many reasons why.

I think I said the exact opposite:

ES is not a core component of the cadet Program.  You can go your whole career, progress without skipping anything and never do any ES.

AE, however, is another story, there are required components of the CP which include AE.

For the record I think members are shortchanging themselves if they don't participate in all three parts of CAP.

[Eclipse]

And I clearly said that cadet programs was part of one of our broad programs (AE).  Whats the problem? 

My statement about the cadet program is no different than if I said "Search and Rescue is not one of CAP's primary missions.".  The primary mission would be responding to emergencies and SAR is just one of the emergencies we respond to. 

Cadet programs is an important method by which we accomplish our AE program, it assists in our emergency services program, and may accomplish some of the non-combat support mission by providing potential future recruits to the AF.  It just is not a program that exists only for itself.  We don't do cadet programs just to do cadet programs -- we do it to fulfill our responsibilities in other areas.

Sorry, yes we do.

The Cadet program stands on its own, and could with or without ES or AE.  We could remove both
from the CP and it would not be substantially changed.

Saying S&R isn't a core mission is true in the same way that encampments aren't a core mission, nor is rocketry.  These are respective components of the actual missions which are ES, CP & AE.

To say anything else is just being legalistic for the sake of having an argument.

Tags - MIKE

[RiverAux]

The Cadet program stands on its own, and could with or without ES or AE.

Thats a different argument.  All three could be done without the other in the grand scheme of things.  But, that isn't our charge. 

The "3-missions" way of thinking that CAP has been using to think of itself for many years is a dramatic over-simplification of what CAP is supposed to be doing and has obviously resulted in other purposes for which we are supposed to exist being forgotten. 

[Eclipse]

Well, I don't think we could argue that, but its not really the gist of the original post...

[Eagle400]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Cadet Programs is the most important mission in CAP, and that without Cadet Programs, the Air Force would have little to nothing to do with CAP.

Why does the Air Force still have faith in CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force see real competence and adherence to rules and regulations within CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force find CAP members who wear their uniforms properly and hold others to a high standard of uniform wear?  Cadet Programs.  And what is responsible for producing stellar recruits to the Air Force?  Cadet Programs. 

Without Cadet Programs, CAP would lose a lot.   

[Ned]

On this we agree!

[Eagle400]

[LtCol White]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Cadet Programs is the most important mission in CAP, and that without Cadet Programs, the Air Force would have little to nothing to do with CAP.

Why does the Air Force still have faith in CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force see real competence and adherence to rules and regulations within CAP?  Cadet Programs.  Where does the Air Force find CAP members who wear their uniforms properly and hold others to a high standard of uniform wear?  Cadet Programs.  And what is responsible for producing stellar recruits to the Air Force?  Cadet Programs. 

Without Cadet Programs, CAP would lose a lot.   

VERY well said

[ZigZag911]

Without CP, the Air Force might very willingly lose us!

[mikeylikey]

^^  Why don't they cut us loose?  They already have JROTC.  Cut CAP funding.......dump it all in ROTC.  I think I remember reading here last year that more CAP cadets go into the AF as do JROTC cadets.  I know more USAFA are prior CAP members......they used to have a class breakdown on the academy website that showed the number of cadets with cap experience and JROTC experience.

[arajca]

The issue with JROTC units is there is a limited number that can be established. The military has a specific formula for how many Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine JROTC units can be operating. CAP provides an additional source for the AF outside of this formula.

[SARMedTech]

Our  single biggest obligation to Cadets throughout the organization is to teach them to be leaders and that service to others really does make a difference. To me, if a Cadet learns how to fly or ever gets anywhere near an a/c is secondary. Our job as Officers is to train them to be outstanding young people, proud of their country and honored to be able to serve it and its citizenry in times of need and hopefully instill these ideals sufficiently that its makes them better people. Our goal as far as the Cadets are concerned is to have them leave the Cadet program a little better than they were when they came in. Able to stand a little taller, be more confident and understand the value of selfless service.

[Fifinella]

^^Amen.