All right, which one of us was responsible for this

[MikeD]

Some guy dropped his kid off for the first day of school... in a helicopter:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-helicopter-school-082609,0,2243370.story

Anyone want to fess up to that?  And, for me, someday (both having kids and a license to fly a helo).

[JohnKachenmeister]

Not guilty, your honor.

As a matter of common sense, I never fly any aircraft with wings that travel faster than the fuselage.

[NIN]

Nothing says "Throw the volley ball at my head harder" than your parental units making you stick out like a sore thumb on the first day of school.  Poor kid has probably picked up the name "Whirlyboy" or something.  Nice.  Way to make a positive impression for your son, there, dad.

First day of high school is tough enough. You're trying to blend in, be just like everybody else, not attract attention, especially negative attention.  Then dad decides to go all Colonel Kilgore for ya.

My son's first day in a new school was yesterday. He was very anxious about having to ride a bus, etc.  Bus driver yelled at him ("Siddown and shaddyup!") and then on the way home they dropped him off at a stop a mile from his stop. (he's 8, by the way)

Scary stuff either way.

[Flying Pig]

The FAA is going to strip that guy naked and beat him to a pulp.  Appareantly he missed the day of flight training where they covered common sense.
Landing a helicopter on school property is a HUGE NO NO.  Look for a lengthy suspension coming down the pipe, and that NO flight school will ever rent him a helo again.

[jimmydeanno]

Although the FAA still is looking into the matter, an official said Sutherin likely isn't in trouble because he landed the aircraft safely and "in accordance with the Federal Aviation Regulations."

[Flying Pig]

Hmmm, we'll see.  Most States have laws against landing on school property without prior permission.  In CA permission goes through Cal-Trans.  One of our helicopters did it for a career day.  However, they forgot we were doing it.  When we landed back at the airport there were 3 FAA inspectors waiting for us.  They were out for blood.  Fortunately, we had all of our documentation, and they found theirs.

This guy needs spanked for bad judgement.

[Gunner C]

The FAA is going to strip that guy naked and beat him to a pulp.

"Thank you, sir!  May I have another?" 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Hmmm, we'll see.  Most States have laws against landing on school property without prior permission.  In CA permission goes through Cal-Trans.  One of our helicopters did it for a career day.  However, they forgot we were doing it.  When we landed back at the airport there were 3 FAA inspectors waiting for us.  They were out for blood.  Fortunately, we had all of our documentation, and they found theirs.

This guy needs spanked for bad judgement.

Florida is a little different from The People's Republic of California (Admit it... you even have a red star on your state flag).  It wasn't a good idea, but on the other hand, I don't know that it violated any FAR's.

If it violated school policy, the kid might end up in detention.  Way to start the year.

[coolkites]

Hmmm, we'll see.  Most States have laws against landing on school property without prior permission.  In CA permission goes through Cal-Trans.  One of our helicopters did it for a career day.  However, they forgot we were doing it.  When we landed back at the airport there were 3 FAA inspectors waiting for us.  They were out for blood.  Fortunately, we had all of our documentation, and they found theirs.

This guy needs spanked for bad judgement.

Florida is a little different from The People's Republic of California (Admit it... you even have a red star on your state flag).  It wasn't a good idea, but on the other hand, I don't know that it violated any FAR's.

If it violated school policy, the kid might end up in detention.  Way to start the year.

The kid didn't do anything wrong except go along for the ride maybe they should make the dad come in for a week of lunch detentions!

[Airrace]

Poor judgement on the helo pilot. I don't see any FAA violations!

[Flying Pig]

Silly boy, pistons are for kids

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rotorhead]

Poor judgement on the helo pilot. I don't see any FAA violations!

Landing on any property other than an airport without permission is not a real smart idea.

[A.Member]

Lighten up.  Should he have asked for permission first?  Sure.  But ultimately is this really that big a deal?  No.  But by all accounts at this point he operated the aircraft safely and in accordance with the regs, so relax.  If I saw this occur, my first response would not be to place a call to authorities. 

The people that are getting their panties in a bunch over this, such as this principal, need to get out a lot more.

Glad the kid enjoyed the ride!  :clap:

[Johnny Yuma]

No laws broken, no FAR's violated. They can't cry tresspassing either.

Talk about a lot of whining for nothing!

[Flying Pig]

Depends on where you are.  I saw in the article, it said very few students even saw it because he landed in a clear area away from the students.  My only concern is the guy has a PPL Helo.  Id be curious to see how many hours he has.  Unless hes independently wealthy, at near $300 per hour for a 300C in most areas Id speculate he's very low time.

However, in CA, they would crucify you with rusty nails.  So for you CA pilots....dont even think about it!!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Yet another reason I am glad I did not retire to California!

[Strick]

come on guys........... we all know he had his dad brought it for show and tell not to mention the chick factor

[Rotorhead]

No laws broken, no FAR's violated. They can't cry tresspassing either.

Why do you contend they cannot cry trespassing?

[Flying Pig]

Trespassing does not apply.  I imagine FL and CA law are similar in this regard.  Im sure it is reasonable for the father to believe he is allowed to drop his kid off at school.  The vehicle used, a helicopter in this case, is irrelevant.  Would they arrest a parent for pulling into the circle drive on school property for the sole intent of dropping the kid off because the principle doesnt like Chevy Tahoes?  No.   There was no intent to unlawfully enter the property.  If there had been a previous incident, and he was advised he was no longer allowed on the property, then you could streeeeeetch trespassing, however, that warning to not enter school property would have had to stem from something criminal or a restraining order.  In the case of a school, where the adult has a kid attending, the parent is not barred from the school.  From here on out, if the school wanted to, I imagine they could send him a letter stating that because of his actions he is no longer allowed on school district property or he could be arrested.  But not for this especially since it appears that he actually did nothing wrong.  My thought is, he's probably a pretty cool dad.

If there were no FAR's violated, and no State, County or Municipal laws violated, then he's good to go.  If its in a rural area, and he landed in an area clear of kids and the school, then perhaps his judgement was sound.  When I read the article, I assumed it was on the grass in front of the school surrounded by kids.  As I read the article with more detail, it looks as if he took precautions to land away from anything.

[Rotorhead]

But he didn't have permission to land on the property.

Just because you CAN physically land anywhere, doesn't mean you're legally allowed to do so...or that you should.

If he landed in your backyard, with no intent to unlawfully enter your home, you probably wouldn't be real pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. but as a pilot with a CPL-H, I wouldn't do it without getting permission first.

[DC]

But he didn't have permission to land on the property.

Just because you CAN physically land anywhere, doesn't mean you're legally allowed to do so...or that you should.

If he landed in your backyard, with no intent to unlawfully enter your home, you probably wouldn't be real pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. but as a pilot with a CPL-H, I wouldn't do it without getting permission first.

My backyard is private property, a public school isn't.

Obviously it wasn't exactly a smart decision, however it doesn't appear that it was illegal or unsafe.

[Flying Pig]

Right, two different scenarios.  Public School where parents are allowed to come onto campus, drop their kids off, etc vs. my fenced in yard where this dude has no business.  Again, him being in a helicopter is a moot point.  Its his body that would be considered to be trespassing, not the vehicle that brought him.  He wasnt trespassing.  He was dropping his kid off at school.  TRUST ME....its not trespassing.....even in FL.

There could, however, be something in the FL State Vehicle Code that may prevent this.  Every State is different (Thank God) because that means I can still find a happy place.  The day I retire, Im packing my boxes and heading......somewhere.  DARN YOU CALIFORNIA AND ALL OF YOUR STUPID IDEAS!!!

[Rotorhead]

But he didn't have permission to land on the property.

Just because you CAN physically land anywhere, doesn't mean you're legally allowed to do so...or that you should.

If he landed in your backyard, with no intent to unlawfully enter your home, you probably wouldn't be real pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. but as a pilot with a CPL-H, I wouldn't do it without getting permission first.

My backyard is private property, a public school isn't.

Obviously it wasn't exactly a smart decision, however it doesn't appear that it was illegal or unsafe.

Schools are in a murky area re: trespassing.

Don't believe me? Ask a random person to just walk onto campus and watch how long it takes for the SRO to question and remove him. If it were "public property," this wouldn't happen.

[Flying Pig]

Intent is the key.

Ned....help a brother out here!!!

[aveighter]

Good Heavens, you girls will wail and cry about anything!  Real men would say "yeah baby!! way to go dude!"  You ninnies are running for the law books looking for someone to tattle to.

How about gutting the F-22 and C-17 lines?  How about dismantling our missile defense technology development programs at this particular time in history?  Support and advocacy for the air power development and superiority aspects of the Air Force actually is one of our missions.  You did know that, right?

You sissies have any opinions on that?  You know, issues that actually matter.  National security of the United States and things like that.

[notaNCO forever]

Good Heavens, you girls will wail and cry about anything!  Real men would say "yeah baby!! way to go dude!"  You ninnies are running for the law books looking for someone to tattle to.

How about gutting the F-22 and C-17 lines?  How about dismantling our missile defense technology development programs at this particular time in history?  Support and advocacy for the air power development and superiority aspects of the Air Force actually is one of our missions.  You did know that, right?

You sissies have any opinions on that?  You know, issues that actually matter.  National security of the United States and things like that.

What does this have to do with the United State's aerospace defense technology? It's a simple discussion about if landing a helicopter at a school is legal; an entirely different subject than what you brought up.

[aveighter]

You're right.  It is a simple discussion about nothing of consequence. 

An observation by someone on something interesting that happened devolves into meaningless blather.  Don't you get sick of it?

There are so many serious issues that do relate to our service in the auxiliary of the Air Force that you can potentially have impact on.  Try some of those for a change.  Serious discussions of meaningful issues by serious people, professionals. 

There are a number of posters here that have heavy weight backgrounds and experience and have perspectives that I, for one, would like to see applied to some of these topics.

Imagine a senior staff officer of Northern Command perusing some of the crap that passes for intellectual discourse here.  Embarrassing. 

[Rotorhead]

Good Heavens, you girls will wail and cry about anything!  Real men would say "yeah baby!! way to go dude!"  You ninnies are running for the law books looking for someone to tattle to.

How about gutting the F-22 and C-17 lines?  How about dismantling our missile defense technology development programs at this particular time in history?  Support and advocacy for the air power development and superiority aspects of the Air Force actually is one of our missions.  You did know that, right?

You sissies have any opinions on that?  You know, issues that actually matter.  National security of the United States and things like that.

Then why don't you start a thread on that instead of calling people names on this one?

Or do you think the tops brass at NORTHCOM would enjoy seeing you suggest that people here aren't "real men"?

[Flying Pig]

Well, someone posted an aviation related topic.  Some legalities came up regarding what happened.  Im a cop, so I am trying to clarify an issue for a member that really could get someone in trouble.  I think the issue of trespassing and the legalities surrounding it is very relevant to CAP.  Im a helicopter pilot, so its relevant to me.  Rotorhead...given his screen name must have something to do with the helo industry?
As far as all of the other things you mentioned, Im sure we are all equally concerned about defense issues but that wasnt the topic.   And if we want to talk about REAL issues, I post homeland security articles all the time related to gangs in the military and border security issues.  I dont think Ive ever seen you respond to one of those? 

I dont know who you are, and Im quite certain you dont know who I am.  So I would suggest if you are going to jump in and start personally insulting people while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, I expect to see your full name and location at the bottom of your signature.  Otherwise, checkout of the thread.

[SJFedor]

And moving back towards the center of the thread direction....

doubt he violated any FARs, at least that I could find. And unless the state/county/city government has laws or ordinances about whether or not you can land stuff like that would dictate whether he's got the local authorities to worry about.

But no lie, that's a ballin way to start off high school.

[aveighter]

Actually, Capt. Steht, you were one of the posters I was referencing regarding opinions I would be interested in on topics that matter.

I do read your HLS posts and have utilized some of that information in our AO.  Your posts on  those articles and situations are informational in nature and I have nothing substantive to add to them.  Further discussions on those topics are not appropriate in this forum anyway for reasons I know you understand.

[flyerthom]

I don't think it's nearly the same league as the clown that landed his Piper Clipper on a golf course so his kid wouldn't miss his tennis match:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/newsstand/797664-pilot-lands-golf-course-sons-tennis-practice.html

[Johnny Yuma]

But he didn't have permission to land on the property.

Just because you CAN physically land anywhere, doesn't mean you're legally allowed to do so...or that you should.

If he landed in your backyard, with no intent to unlawfully enter your home, you probably wouldn't be real pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. but as a pilot with a CPL-H, I wouldn't do it without getting permission first.

My backyard is private property, a public school isn't.

Obviously it wasn't exactly a smart decision, however it doesn't appear that it was illegal or unsafe.

Schools are in a murky area re: trespassing.

Don't believe me? Ask a random person to just walk onto campus and watch how long it takes for the SRO to question and remove him. If it were "public property," this wouldn't happen.

People just traipsing through the halls is one thing, dropping your kid off (albeit a helicopter) is another.

Sheesh, talk about beating the dead horse.

[flyerthom]

The day I retire, Im packing my boxes and heading......somewhere.  DARN YOU CALIFORNIA AND ALL OF YOUR STUPID IDEAS!!! 

Intent is the key.

Ned....help a brother out here!!!

The 5 acre lot below me is for sale in NV, I'll buy the first rounds and get you hooked up with a part time HEMS gig. We have a bunch of squadrons to choose from. We can go halves on a rortrway Talon A600 http://www.rotorway.com/talon.html
and land it on my driveway...

Oh not that kind of help 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Right, two different scenarios.  Public School where parents are allowed to come onto campus, drop their kids off, etc vs. my fenced in yard where this dude has no business.  Again, him being in a helicopter is a moot point.  Its his body that would be considered to be trespassing, not the vehicle that brought him.  He wasnt trespassing.  He was dropping his kid off at school.  TRUST ME....its not trespassing.....even in FL.

There could, however, be something in the FL State Vehicle Code that may prevent this.  Every State is different (Thank God) because that means I can still find a happy place.  The day I retire, Im packing my boxes and heading......somewhere.  DARN YOU CALIFORNIA AND ALL OF YOUR STUPID IDEAS!!!

I checked both FL state and Orlando City codes on line.  There was no law violated.  A single landing is OK, but if he intends to shutle the kid to class every day, the LZ must be designated as a "Helistop," but that ain't gonna happen because helicopters are way too pricey to rent.

[JohnKachenmeister]

But he didn't have permission to land on the property.

Just because you CAN physically land anywhere, doesn't mean you're legally allowed to do so...or that you should.

If he landed in your backyard, with no intent to unlawfully enter your home, you probably wouldn't be real pleased.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. but as a pilot with a CPL-H, I wouldn't do it without getting permission first.

My backyard is private property, a public school isn't.

Obviously it wasn't exactly a smart decision, however it doesn't appear that it was illegal or unsafe.

Schools are in a murky area re: trespassing.

Don't believe me? Ask a random person to just walk onto campus and watch how long it takes for the SRO to question and remove him. If it were "public property," this wouldn't happen.

There's no "Murk."  A random guy coming onto school property for no reason is trespassing.  A father dropping his kid off to school has privilege to enter the property.

[ande.boyer]

My flight instructor dropped off his daughter at school every day in his helipcopter when we were in jr high on his way to work at the airport (he also operated a charter service).

Everyone thought it was the coolest.

[flyguy06]

He may not have broken any Federal Regulations, but he he may have broken State or local regulations. Here in Georgia The FAA doesnt have any rules against a sea palne landing in a lake. A guy in a Sea plane landed at Lake Lanier and the local Sheriff gave him a ticket because its against state law.

I think in this landing at the school situation was irresponsible because the pilot didnt alert school officials or anything so what did he expect the reaction to be?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I checked both Florida state laws and Orlando city ordinances, and there are no laws restricting a single helicopter landng anywhere.

Regular use of an landing area by helicopters requires a state inspection and approval of the area as a helistop.

As far as the school officials go, I am sure they will get over this momentary distraction in their program of indoctrinating America's youth with left-wing ideology, and eventually use it as an object lesson as to why "Freedom" is a bad thing and should be controlled by the government.

[Flying Pig]

As a helicopter pilot and father myself I dont want some yahoo with a PPL and 41.7 hrs landing a helo at my kids school playground.

However, that being said, my kids go to private school because I think most of the teachers in my area are left wing nut jobs.

[DBlair]

As far as the school officials go, I am sure they will get over this momentary distraction in their program of indoctrinating America's youth with left-wing ideology, and eventually use it as an object lesson as to why "Freedom" is a bad thing and should be controlled by the government.

*applause*

[flyguy06]

Jack, you actually looked up the law? Why? What purpose did it serve you?

Ok. I have NO idea how this thread went from a helicopter pilot landed on school property to an attack on left wing people. I have no idea whatsoever but since you guys opened the can of worms........

Again, You brought this up. I didnt I was just commenting on the helicopter pilot flying his son to school.

[DBlair]

*** looking around confused ***

Did I miss something? You seem very upset about the political comments made. Considering how the country (left and right wing) has been especially vocal in recent months, I didn't think it was unexpected or out of line for someone to make a comment and for another member to agree. I don't think it would have extended beyond merely a single comment-response, and thus not really derail the discussion thread. Thus, I'm confused about what is warranting a can of worms to be opened, and what this can contains.

[Major Carrales]

I have worked at a school for some 12 year now.  If a person walks on to campus...they can be considered trespassing.  There would then be questions asked and a "reasonable" query.  If it was a new to campus parent that didn't know he had to get a visitor's pass, all is well.

If a parent, however, for example, walked on campus and goes to a teacher's classroom while they are teaching and disrupts the class...in our area that is a citation.  Be they parents or not.

Also, walking into the building for no reason will get a person arrested.

If a chopper landed at our school before school and dropped someone off, I don't see much of an issue.  Only if a group of students gathered around the chopper citing safety issues or is someone was actually hurt.  If it happened when classes had already started and students left their desks to look out the window...oh, that would be bad.

[aveighter]

Jack, you actually looked up the law? Why? What purpose did it serve you?

Ok. I have NO idea how this thread went from a helicopter pilot landed on school property to an attack on left wing people. I have no idea whatsoever but since you guys opened the can of worms........

Again, You brought this up. I didnt I was just commenting on the helicopter pilot flying his son to school.

I'll lay odds he looked it up to see what it actually said.  You know, kinda like some of us actually read thousand page bills to see what they actually say.  Rather than the useful idiots, elected officials who vote aye while knowing extremely little about the contents simply because the local commissar , dear leader, acorn organizer, party boss er, whatever, said so.

[Gunner C]

 

[flyguy06]

Jack, you actually looked up the law? Why? What purpose did it serve you?

Ok. I have NO idea how this thread went from a helicopter pilot landed on school property to an attack on left wing people. I have no idea whatsoever but since you guys opened the can of worms........

Again, You brought this up. I didnt I was just commenting on the helicopter pilot flying his son to school.

I'll lay odds he looked it up to see what it actually said.  You know, kinda like some of us actually read thousand page bills to see what they actually say.  Rather than the useful idiots, elected officials who vote aye while knowing extremely little about the contents simply because the local commissar , dear leader, acorn organizer, party boss er, whatever, said so.

yeah. I hear ya. Some of us dont have time. We have to work to support our families. The few spare momnets in the day we do have, we volunteer to try and make a difference in our communities. As much as I wish I had the idle time to read through pages and pages of laws and books, I just dont have that kind of time.  It serves me no purpose tolook up a law of wheather you can or cannot land an aircraft on public property. I have more important things in my life going on. Like paying bills and eating.

[aveighter]

yeah. I hear ya. Some of us dont have time. We have to work to support our families. The few spare momnets in the day we do have, we volunteer to try and make a difference in our communities. As much as I wish I had the idle time to read through pages and pages of laws and books, I just dont have that kind of time.  It serves me no purpose tolook up a law of wheather you can or cannot land an aircraft on public property. I have more important things in my life going on. Like paying bills and eating.

Fortunately for you there are a few of us who make the time to become knowledgeable about such things.  We understand the hard work that is required to remain citizens rather than to become subjects.

We also have learned to poke the spell check button which has been graciously provided for us.  Much like a government program except with no downside.

[Fifinella]

Good Heavens, you girls will wail and cry about anything!  Real men would say "yeah baby!! way to go dude!" 

Some of us resent the aspersion that whiners = girls. 

[Gunner C]

You're right.  Flyguy06 has removed any doubt that may be out there.  I don't hear a lot of "girls" whining like that.  I have two girls and a wife - I'm probably the only one who whines.

[hatentx]

Wow such an interesting a multi laned topic with name calling and all.  If it wasn't illegal than what is the issue.  I honestly had no clue if he could land there or not.  I had my ideas however.  Thanks for the good information.  I am looking forward to the National Defense topics I should be reading in the future.  I like those as well.