Hit by a laser

[Flying Pig]

Anyone ever been hit with a high intensity laser while flying?   Happened to me tonight for the first time.  I was at 4000 agl when all of the sudden, the entire cockpit became the most brilliant and intense fluorescent green I have ever seen.  I couldn't see anything but green.  No instruments, couldnt see outside..NOTHING.  It was just after sunset.  I seriously thought I was experiencing a medical condition.  It lasted for about 1-2 seconds, then I could see the beam waving around.  I looked down and could see it was a person in a neighborhood shining it up at me.  The tower then called me and told me they had seen the laser also and wanted to know if I had been hit with it.  They then asked, "OK, now our protocol says were supposed to notify local law enforcement?  Can we assume we just notified local law enforcement?" 
This was a serious beam, not some laser pointer.  If it hasn't happened to you yet.......its pretty wild.

[fyrfitrmedic]

 This happened in Philly this past Thursday night:

(philly.com) - Police have filed charges against a Philadelphia man who pointed a laser at a police helicopter and temporarily blinded the pilot on routine air patrol.

Officers arrested Lenny J. Tavarez, 19, of the 4000 block of Ormond Street, Thursday night in the 4200 block of Palmetto Street in Juniata Park. Police said Tavarez repeatedly and intentionally illuminated the green laser at the helicopter while it was in the air.

The laser beam struck the pilot in his right eye, causing him to turn controls over to the co-pilot. The pilots saw the suspect, who continued aiming the laser at the aircraft, and directed officers on the ground to make the arrest.

Police said they recovered a silver penlike green laser from Tavarez. He is charged with risking a catastrophe, aggravated assault and related offenses.

[hatentx]

That sounds like the green lasers we used in Iraq. 

To bad you wernt being obducted by a UFO would have made a cooler ending

[jimmydeanno]

^Maybe he was and they just erased his memory.  Were you sore after this? 

I do wonder what the person was using, I don't know of too many people who own high powered lasers like that (in fact, I can't think of a single person).

[♠SARKID♠]

They're readily available if you know the website to go to.

People like that really get under my skin.  I can't stand it when people think they're just having fun but are too stupid to realize they are seriously risking somebodies life.  Same thing with people who launch fireworks at planes.

[lordmonar]

Anyone ever been hit with a high intensity laser while flying?   Happened to me tonight for the first time.  I was at 4000 agl when all of the sudden, the entire cockpit became the most brilliant and intense fluorescent green I have ever seen.  I couldn't see anything but green.  No instruments, couldnt see outside..NOTHING.  It was just after sunset.  I seriously thought I was experiencing a medical condition.  It lasted for about 1-2 seconds, then I could see the beam waving around.  I looked down and could see it was a person in a neighborhood shining it up at me.  The tower then called me and told me they had seen the laser also and wanted to know if I had been hit with it.  They then asked, "OK, now our protocol says were supposed to notify local law enforcement?  Can we assume we just notified local law enforcement?" 
This was a serious beam, not some laser pointer.  If it hasn't happened to you yet.......its pretty wild.

Make sure you go get your eyes checked.  Laser dazzeling can cause retna scarring.

[hatentx]

That is true and a normal eye exam doesn't look for laser burns either.  It is something special in it self.

[flyerthom]

Anyone ever been hit with a high intensity laser while flying?   

So did you catch him?

[MSgt Van]

If you have any eye damage caused by a laser it would be characterized by:
"floaties" floating around in your vision.
black or blank spots in your vision. These may not be readily apparent.

Having a normal blink response is usually enough protection from most "recreational" lasers (cheap red pointers) that are prevelant these days. If you experience any after effects I'd recommend an exam, although I doubt there's any "cure".  You'll have to get your eyes dialated and then they'll peer in and look for scarring or blood floating in the liquid of your eye. I've got the original pictures they took of the back of my eyes when I first went in the Air  Force (I was a repair tech on laser bombing systems).  They look like egg yokes with small blood vessels.
I had an annual exam to detect any damage. I can post one if anybody want to see the inner me...

[Flying Pig]

Anyone ever been hit with a high intensity laser while flying?   

So did you catch him?

Nope.  This are was pretty much a gang hood, and there wasnt much I could do from 4000 in the dark except call in the ground guys.  Dude was gone.

[caprr275]

there was a group of kids this last summer who would sit in a parkinglot across from the runway at my college of aviation and shine the lazer into the cockpit of every plane on final. it got so bad that the police camped out at the end of the active runway trying to catch them....

it never happened to me but it did to my old CFI like 3 times in one week

[CASH172]

There are some stargazers that use high powered lasers to point out specific stars and objects in space.  It is sometimes a good idea to know if you're around a stargazing area since they aren't part of TFRs.

[Larry Mangum]

Lasers are now being used as emergency flares and signaling devices: https://www.greatlandlaser.com/index.php

[DC]

Lasers are now being used as emergency flares and signaling devices: https://www.greatlandlaser.com/index.php

Maybe we should be trying to get welding googles for CAP pilots instead of NVGs or FLIR....

[scooter]

This happened to me about a month ago. I was about 2000Ft AGL, 4 mi from the airport. I notified the tower and the immediately started broadcasting to other aircraft and on ATIS about the "Unauthorized Laser" and its location. I don't know if they notified law enforcement or the FAA. I also reported this to the Wing safety folks since I was on a CAP mission. Never heard anything about it afterwords.

[JoeTomasone]

I have one of these lasers and while they do have practical & safe uses, they are NOT toys.    That being said, I am glad to hear that they can be seen laterally from the aircraft as they would be one of the items I would consider to signal an aircraft with at night. 

In case anyone is wondering, I initially bought mine to point out high objects (mostly antennas) during daylight to customers - a task for which they excel.

[Flying Pig]

This happened to me about a month ago. I was about 2000Ft AGL, 4 mi from the airport. I notified the tower and the immediately started broadcasting to other aircraft and on ATIS about the "Unauthorized Laser" and its location. I don't know if they notified law enforcement or the FAA. I also reported this to the Wing safety folks since I was on a CAP mission. Never heard anything about it afterwords.

Their really isnt much that can be done.  Our patrol guys got into the area and checked around, but everyone was gone.  I think we should have started knocking on doors and searching every house in town for a green laser!

[_]

This happened to me about a month ago. I was about 2000Ft AGL, 4 mi from the airport. I notified the tower and the immediately started broadcasting to other aircraft and on ATIS about the "Unauthorized Laser" and its location. I don't know if they notified law enforcement or the FAA. I also reported this to the Wing safety folks since I was on a CAP mission. Never heard anything about it afterwords.

Their really isnt much that can be done.  Our patrol guys got into the area and checked around, but everyone was gone.  I think we should have started knocking on doors and searching every house in town for a green laser!

If you were in the helo I'd think it's time to buzz the bozo.

[Flying Pig]

If this had occured in the helo, this would have had different outcome!

[a2capt]

When this whole laser thing first starting being real news with hitting cockpits on final I was in disbelief, that some little pathetic thing could cause so much harm.

What had happened was the green laser started becoming available on the consumer level.

I ranted about how if something was that [darn] powerful.. I wanted one.

I have one now. Tell you what.. it's with me in the airplane usually, too. If I ever get beamed, I'm firing back. ;-)

Probably no time to do that anyway.. but nice to think about it.

[desertengineer1]

Anyone ever been hit with a high intensity laser while flying?   Happened to me tonight for the first time.  I was at 4000 agl when all of the sudden, the entire cockpit became the most brilliant and intense fluorescent green I have ever seen.  I couldn't see anything but green.  No instruments, couldnt see outside..NOTHING.  It was just after sunset.  I seriously thought I was experiencing a medical condition.  It lasted for about 1-2 seconds, then I could see the beam waving around.  I looked down and could see it was a person in a neighborhood shining it up at me.  The tower then called me and told me they had seen the laser also and wanted to know if I had been hit with it.  They then asked, "OK, now our protocol says were supposed to notify local law enforcement?  Can we assume we just notified local law enforcement?" 
This was a serious beam, not some laser pointer.  If it hasn't happened to you yet.......its pretty wild.

This is a pretty serious issue.  I recommend you do follow-up to see if the reports flowed correctly.

On the good side, most of these lasers don't have enough power output to do eye damage.  Class I thru IIIA lasers comprise most of this category.  Most of them are limited to 5 mW or less output power and have cheap beam collimators.  Those do not have enough power to do physical damage to your retina - but will temporarily blind you (Dazzle), severity depending on the color.  Green is really dazzling because your eyes are most sensitive to that wavelength.

Class IIIb is where the danger begins, and that depends on the strength.  1/2 watt ones are dangerous, but are harder to obtain, and require special skill to collimate to a danger level.

In most situations, you are pretty safe from damage due to the nature of long distance.  Cheap lasers aimed at aircraft are low-power, have poorly collimated beams, have high angular variability ("shake"), and are further attenuated by atmospherics, the long distances, and thankfully - the windshield (snell's law and the canopy material helps ALOT).

But...  in the event someone was carting around a liquid cooled Class IV cutting laser in the back of a truck, magically made green (not normal for the high powered ones)....

Retinal damage is not usually noticed immediately.  Your brain "fills in" disjointed areas.  After a few hours, you will notice a fleeting dark spot, flashes, or in the extreme powered case, floating matter.  Floaters are really bad because they are released debris or blood.  THAT you would have noticed immediately!

I get a little frustrated sometimes by the irrational panic exhibited by some folks like police - due to the lack of information.

Handheld or keychain lasers DO NOT have enough power to damage a retina.  You might have a reaction if you held one to your eye  for half an hour, but the only thing your doing is depleating the rod/cone cells of color sensitivity and making yourself temporarily blind. 

Flight (obviously) is another story.  Distraction like that combined with other factors like approach speeds, nighttime, and unfamiliar airports can be deadly.

[SarDragon]

Is 5 mw enough to pop a balloon at 20 ft? If not, then there are pointer size units out there that are powerful enough to do so. I saw one in use. It was green.

[♠SARKID♠]

Is 5 mw enough to pop a balloon at 20 ft? If not, then there are pointer size units out there that are powerful enough to do so. I saw one in use. It was green.

Negative, you need 95-125mw to pop a balloon

[wingnut55]

The Military is using Laser protective eyewear fo that reason, it is cheap to be able to blind a pilot, butI think we should just contract with "TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE" for all our SAR and Homeland Security Missions, it would be much Cheaper, and they have cool Uniforms, and they would just nuke the bugger with the Laser

[Flying Pig]

^Stick with decaf bud.....

[desertengineer1]

The Military is using Laser protective eyewear fo that reason, it is cheap to be able to blind a pilot, butI think we should just contract with "TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE" for all our SAR and Homeland Security Missions, it would be much Cheaper, and they have cool Uniforms, and they would just nuke the bugger with the Laser

The military is using laser protective optics because:

1.  Rogue countries don't adhere to the Geneva ban of eye weapons.  We're not taking any chances if the gloves come off.  Thankfully, most have played nice.  Besides, the technology to make that high of an intensity (and deploy it) keeps it out of the hands of terrorist bands and low-budget nations.  I ain't going to take any chances.

2.  EO/IR laser targeting device safety parameters have "aided' and "unaided" minimum safe distances.  The aided distance can be miles, therefore, protective optics are mandated.  Looking at a high power laser designator through a 25 power scope can be dangerous (like using a magnifying glass with the sun).  Protective optic coating requirements are added to the specs accordingly.

[SJFedor]

The Military is using Laser protective eyewear fo that reason, it is cheap to be able to blind a pilot, butI think we should just contract with "TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE" for all our SAR and Homeland Security Missions, it would be much Cheaper, and they have cool Uniforms, and they would just nuke the bugger with the Laser

Posted at 11-something PM...think you need to cut back on the thursday night margaritas 



durkah durkah.


[/drift]

[flynd94]

This past summer going into EWR, the ATIS had a warning up for laser illuminations of aircraft landing at EWR.  On the approach to 4R our cockpit was lit up by a green laser.  We gave NYC TRACON our position.  The fools were stupid enough to stay and, continue to "laser aircraft".  It turned out to be some teenagers who thought it would be cool.

Well, they were arrested/prosecuted.

[Rob Sherlin]

   There's a catalog out "Bud K" that sells swords, crossbows and all kinds of gizmos. I saw a laser titled "most powerful laser". It WAS a green laser that was capable of being seen at 6 miles (from what the ad says). It was only around $40 or so (if I remember correctly), so pretty much, any idiot can get one of these things and do something stupid (like point it at an aircraft or helicopter).
   I think lasers this powerful should call for a permit or something. The only thing a common person might need a laser for anyway is if your going to mount it on a firearm, or you're using it as a pointer for a presentation. Neither of those will call for you being 6 miles away and needing a laser that powerful!

[♠SARKID♠]

All right, I wasn't going to post this but what the heck.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/

This has all the lasers that can be seen for over 100 miles, and torch your drywall.  They also have "The Torch", a hand held flashlight that can fry an egg in under two minutes.

[Mustang]

If you have any eye damage caused by a laser it would be characterized by:
"floaties" floating around in your vision.

Negatory on that one; "floaters" are common enough in non-lased eyes to be considered "normal" by the ophthalmology field.

[SarDragon]

If you have any eye damage caused by a laser it would be characterized by:
"floaties" floating around in your vision.

Negatory on that one; "floaters" are common enough in non-lased eyes to be considered "normal" by the ophthalmology field.

Roger that. I've had floaters since I was about 15 years olde, and it's never been a significant issue with any of my eye doctors, military or otherwise. I managed to pass a Class II medical until my muscle balance got too bad in my early 30s.

[LittleIronPilot]

I recall one night when I was in law enforcement in the late 1990's.

Myself, my Lt, and a Deputy from the SO were at a local gas station chatting when all of a sudden red dots started showing up on our uniforms.

We honestly thought we were being targeted. We scrambled, and drew weapons, and took cover.

Long story short, some dumb ass kids at a local motel had some red laser pointers and thought it would be "cute" to point them at use. Let us just say I doubt they would EVER make that mistake again!

[desertengineer1]

If you have any eye damage caused by a laser it would be characterized by:
"floaties" floating around in your vision.

Negatory on that one; "floaters" are common enough in non-lased eyes to be considered "normal" by the ophthalmology field.

Should have clarified this a little more - sorry.  Should be large, significant, sudden-onset types of floaters.  You would know the difference.

[desertengineer1]

   There's a catalog out "Bud K" that sells swords, crossbows and all kinds of gizmos. I saw a laser titled "most powerful laser". It WAS a green laser that was capable of being seen at 6 miles (from what the ad says). It was only around $40 or so (if I remember correctly), so pretty much, any idiot can get one of these things and do something stupid (like point it at an aircraft or helicopter).
   I think lasers this powerful should call for a permit or something. The only thing a common person might need a laser for anyway is if your going to mount it on a firearm, or you're using it as a pointer for a presentation. Neither of those will call for you being 6 miles away and needing a laser that powerful!

Green lasers are very rarely used (if at all)  by industry to burn or score things.  The wavelength is difficult to produce at high power.  Green reflects (you want it to absorb), and is most dangerous to personnel around the equipment if it were used - subject to high regulation.

IR is the standard for that.  The longer wavelength is cheaper to make and it's a little safer (but not much).  Still - to do damage you'll have to cart around a ton of equipment (with generator) - and you'll have to engineer something to collimate it precisely at long distances.  That's something bubba aint gonna do.

Burning a string on a table or popping a black balloon within a few feet is dangerous, yes, but the risk of eye damage (in my personal opinion) to a person in an aircraft from the ground is very low.  Poor beam collimation, distance, "shake" at such distances, eye reflex, optical dispersion and angle of incidence (snell's law) by the canopy are a few reasons.  A LOT of power would be required, which means big, expensive, equipment - a good thing because it lowers the risk of actually happening. 

And yes, selling and possessing lasers that can burn things are illegal (unless you are certified and licensed).  But no one is prosecuting them.  I guess it's because law enforcement doesn't see it as a high priority, which is pretty darned sad because the potential for damage is still high.   

I had to go through a huge list of certification and training courses just to be allowed around targeting pods with eye-safe wavelengths and interlocks. (to include ionizing radiation training ..  wtf? - but they were cool courses).

So yeah, I'm disturbed no one cares that people are selling dangerous, regulated, devices. 

In reality, the people playing around with these in the garage are the most likely to hurt themselves.  I cringed seeing some of the Utube videos.  Many of these morons will be wandering into emergency rooms 24 hours later with retinal holes, vitreosis, or burned corneas. 

There's a reason high power lasers are regulated.  Wish more was done to punish the violators.

[desertengineer1]

(duplicate post removed)

[desertengineer1]

All right, I wasn't going to post this but what the heck.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/

This has all the lasers that can be seen for over 100 miles, and torch your drywall.  They also have "The Torch", a hand held flashlight that can fry an egg in under two minutes.

Huge difference between "seen" and doing thermal damage.  I have an LED flashlight that can be seen 10 miles away.

Thermal scoring ain't gonna happen from a bored bubba and a six pack.  The ABL has to use tons of chemical fuel (iodine compound) and multi million dollar precision/stablized optics to do such a thing.  Bubba isn't going to do it with an Ebay special.

[Bluelakes 13]

Let's clarify something - lasers used by astronomers are of the 5mW or less type.  If someone is missusing a high-power laser under the guise of astronomy, they are not astronomers - they are criminals. 

As an amateur astronomer I use lasers in our public events constantly, with LEOs present.  We need to be careful we do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.  And ignorance usually accomplishes just that.

[desertengineer1]

Let's clarify something - lasers used by astronomers are of the 5mW or less type.  If someone is missusing a high-power laser under the guise of astronomy, they are not astronomers - they are criminals. 

As an amateur astronomer I use lasers in our public events constantly, with LEOs present.  We need to be careful we do not throw out the baby with the bathwater.  And ignorance usually accomplishes just that.

5 mW does not have the optical power to do permanent damage. 

I agree with the ignorance statement.  Too much Star Trek and not enough science education....

[♠SARKID♠]

All right, I wasn't going to post this but what the heck.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/

This has all the lasers that can be seen for over 100 miles, and torch your drywall.  They also have "The Torch", a hand held flashlight that can fry an egg in under two minutes.

Huge difference between "seen" and doing thermal damage.

Heh, I didn't mean both at the same time