Observer Stuff

[ammotrucker]

I also agree that the PIC should be talking to ATC, not the MO.

As far as getting an MO that's not all that good, I have to admit that I may be one of those. I try to get up in a plane every chance I get, but for the past year plus, I've been in a squadron without a plane. Prior to coming here, I was certainly proficient in all my tasks, but the longer I go without actively practicing these tasks, the worse I become at it. So for those new scanners/observers, go fly every single chance you get. Don't just do the 2 flights for qualifying.

I agree with you on that subject, it's probably that I took your statement about the cargo plane driver the wrong way.

I beleive  that you should simply fly.  If that can not be accompliished, I agree RTB and get a new one.

But, I have been on flights with MP's and they require me to call turns and radio ATC and etc.

This is the point that I wanted to make, we each have positions.  Each differant tasks to accomplish.  Should I not accomplish mine in a manner that you do not like.  Talk it out in the aircraft, but if no understanding RTB.

We all need missions to stay current, all be it in the form of trainiing evaul or actual.  It is nice to fly when you would like.

--Edited to fix quote tags --MK

[CAPObserver]

Since no one has posted here in 5 months (since Nov '07) it is possible that no one will read it,  but for those already qualified MO's here is a link to some of the Observer training aids and classes on the WA Wing Aircrew Training Page.  Two classes on that page that current and qualified observers may find useful are the Mission Observer Self Proficiency Program (Listed on the web page as Observer Program) and the High Bird Manual.

http://wawg.cap.gov/members/training/Aircrew%20Training/aid/act.html

Hope this helps your personal training.

[Frenchie]

I agree with your list except for the first one. YOU as PIC should be talking to ATC, not the MO. The MO may not be a pilot. Seperate your duties. In the LE aviation world, the PIC talks to ATC and the Tactical Flight Officer (Observer) Talks to the police on the ground. Same should be in CAP. The PIC talks to ATC and the MO talks to CAP resources

It is good to have the option of MO talking to ATC.  LE aviation may do things differently because they are talking to people on the ground almost constantly, but for most other professional flight crews one flies and the other talks to ATC.

If I have a MO who is a pilot, I usually have them talking to ATC, unless they are working the CAP radio.  If a non-pilot MO is willing to learn how, I see no reason why they couldn't talk to ATC so long as the pilot is monitoring.  It's just part of good CRM.

[Frenchie]

Since no one has posted here in 5 months (since Nov '07) it is possible that no one will read it,  but for those already qualified MO's here is a link to some of the Observer training aids and classes on the WA Wing Aircrew Training Page.  Two classes on that page that current and qualified observers may find useful are the Mission Observer Self Proficiency Program (Listed on the web page as Observer Program) and the High Bird Manual.

http://wawg.cap.gov/members/training/Aircrew%20Training/aid/act.html

Hope this helps your personal training.

It looks like some good material.  More stuff to save to the thumb drive.

[flyguy06]

I agree with your list except for the first one. YOU as PIC should be talking to ATC, not the MO. The MO may not be a pilot. Seperate your duties. In the LE aviation world, the PIC talks to ATC and the Tactical Flight Officer (Observer) Talks to the police on the ground. Same should be in CAP. The PIC talks to ATC and the MO talks to CAP resources

It is good to have the option of MO talking to ATC.  LE aviation may do things differently because they are talking to people on the ground almost constantly, but for most other professional flight crews one flies and the other talks to ATC.

If I have a MO who is a pilot, I usually have them talking to ATC, unless they are working the CAP radio.  If a non-pilot MO is willing to learn how, I see no reason why they couldn't talk to ATC so long as the pilot is monitoring.  It's just part of good CRM.

What you're talking about is PF and PNF. thats good for bigger Jet aircraft, but Cessnas are single pilot operations. talking on the the radio to ATC is normal workload for the pilot. I mean what else is he doing besides flying? He shouldnt be looking for the objective. He should be doing normal duties that a Cessna 172 or 182 pilot should be doing. Aviate, Navigate , and Communicate. Thats all normal ops for a single engine pilot.

[flynd94]

Seems like someone just got through with basic indoc, systems, CRM and such.  The PF/PM duties can be incorporated into CAP but, would include a lot of training.  It would also require a paradigm shift for most of our pilots.  Unfortunately, most won't be able to handle the change.

I am all for MO's to do more as long as they are properly trained and proficient.  I would love to just have to worry about flying the plane.


PS-how is Mesa treating you?  Whats the feeling over there since Delta cut your Freedom flying?

[CAP277]

Curious in terms of paperwork/and reference text what Mission Observers and Scanners are carrying. I've got the in-flight guide, MART and MART Appendix 2 'Flight Guide' all on my computer. Trying to decide what I should print exactly and what everyone's using for binding/size, etc.

Thanks

[SJFedor]

Curious in terms of paperwork/and reference text what Mission Observers and Scanners are carrying. I've got the in-flight guide, MART and MART Appendix 2 'Flight Guide' all on my computer. Trying to decide what I should print exactly and what everyone's using for binding/size, etc.

Thanks

IFG in reduced size, on cardstock for longer life. I think mine is 5.5"x8" and bound so i can flip it open.  You don't need the MART if you have the IFG, as the MART is more of the academic teachings of aircrew work, while the IFG is designed as, get ready for this, an in flight reference book.

I also keep a folder in my flight bag with a dozen 104s, 3 blank weight/balance planning sheets for each aircraft i'm qualified to fly (172, 182(all), GA-8), a dozen ORM sheets, and some full size planning sheets from the back of the MART.

[CAP277]

You print yourself or have it done somewhere ?

[CAP277]

I didn't like the provided worksheets in the MART/IFG so I made my own. Any feed back (anything missing, wrong, etc. ) ? Download it http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f70693da418283b0d956df2962098fcbe04e75f6e8ebb871

[SJFedor]

When I say worksheets, I mean the search area planning sheets for parallel (grid), creeping line, expanding square, et al.

I like the sheet you made, it's good but not very effective for a kneeboard.

The fine staff at NESA-MAS my basic year (2007) gave us the option of having the semi-decent ones that the school provided, or kick in 4 or 5 bucks and get some good, quality lasting ones printed from fedex/kinkos or something like it on some good card stock.

I think every person in the class bought one.

[CAP277]

I certainly would have liked to attend MAS this year, but other activities conflict unfortunately. I made the worksheet probably for me more than anything else, what makes it impractical for the kneeboard ? I didn't try to scale it down to kneeboard size yet, dunno it it's still practical then. Thanks!

[SJFedor]

I certainly would have liked to attend MAS this year, but other activities conflict unfortunately. I made the worksheet probably for me more than anything else, what makes it impractical for the kneeboard ? I didn't try to scale it down to kneeboard size yet, dunno it it's still practical then. Thanks!

Just that right now it's still 8.5"x11" which is bigger then most kneeboards.

What matters is that it works for you. As long as you've got a way to keep yourself organized and in tune with the mission, you can use just about whatever you want

[Eclipse]

If you print them 2-up, they will be knee board sized.