CAP to get Air Force Academy Gliders

[Spaceman3750]

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?cap_to_receive_air_force_academy_gliders&show=news&newsID=12598

Sweet.

[Rogovin]

Called it.  I knew as soon as the USAFA announced their retirement that they would give 'em to the only other outfit that actually uses them.  CAP.  Win.

-Rogovin

[a2capt]

I wonder of they'll justify blowing loot on repainting..
Really, the stickers are fine by themselves.

[coudano]

those are a sweet ride too, if you've never flow in one

[NCRblues]

I wonder how they will be distributed?

[Thrashed]

It said they would replace old CAP gliders, I assume they will distributed to those with old gliders.

[SarDragon]

CAP currently has three flavors of gliders. The newest ones are the Blaniks. I'm guessing the older Schweizers and Schleichers will get replaced by these newer Blaniks.

[Extremepredjudice]

Or they could keep the old gliders and use these new ones to increase our fleet.

[Woodsy]

+1.   


Or, distribute them to the wings that are doing the most glider sorties annually?? 

My wing has flown about 250+ glider sorties so far this year, with a whole bunch still on the waiting list... Another airframe would sure make life easier!

[Thrashed]

Yea, give them to the wings that already have gliders. 
Do you know why the wings with gliders fly gliders more than the wings without gliders? 

[Woodsy]

Yea, give them to the wings that already have gliders. 
Do you know why the wings with gliders fly gliders more than the wings without gliders? 

"Almost" every wing has a glider.


Many of them sit there and collect dust all year except for 1 or 2 weekends.  I don't see how 30 sorties a year could be justification for giving them a new glider when a 600+ sortie a year operation has a waiting list.  Send them where they'll be used. 

[titanII]

On the subject of gliders, does CAP use them for anything besides O-Flights, Glider Academy- type stuff? i.e. does CAP use them for ES?

[Eclipse]

Gliders are not used for ES.

[titanII]

Gliders are not used for ES.

That's what I thought, I was just curious. Thank you for the answer, Sir!

[coudano]

I thought they consolidated the gliders into "centers of excellence" which were (roughly) regional?

[Eagle]

Sweet. I hope we don't replace the older gliders. Waste of resources.

[Extremepredjudice]

Sweet. I hope we don't replace the older gliders. Waste of resources.

Article says they are replacing old ones.

[Huey Driver]

PLEASE oh PLEASE replace the 2-33s!

[coudano]

PLEASE oh PLEASE replace the 2-33s!

hey the 233 is a nice little outfit

[PHall]

PLEASE oh PLEASE replace the 2-33s!

hey the 233 is a nice little outfit

Until you compare it with a Blanik!

[coudano]

PLEASE oh PLEASE replace the 2-33s!

hey the 233 is a nice little outfit

Until you compare it with a Blanik!

I've flown 2-22, 2-33, L13, L23, and twin astir as trainers
Apart from the grob, the 2-33 that I flew in was probably second best condition of all of them, and flew "just fine"  They all have their own plus and minus and handling oddities.

As I recall, I preferred the 2-33 trim setup, and its locking brakes that many other trainers don't have.

[PHall]

All metal (the Blanik) vs fabric (the 2-33) is much perferred maintenance-wise.

[Flying Pig]

Sad to see the AF doing away with the program.  No better way to learn real stick and rudder skills than in a glider.  but I guess they dont have glass cockpits and auto pilots.  Well, OK, is the Air Force just getting rid of these or dumping their glider program all together?

[a2capt]

It really reads like they're getting rid of these airframes only. Nothing outright says the glider program is going away outright.

[titanII]

is the Air Force just getting rid of these or dumping their glider program all together?

Well I would hope not, because like you said, Sir:

No better way to learn real stick and rudder skills than in a glider

[Thrashed]

They are getting newer, better gliders:
http://www.usafa.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123264112

[SarDragon]

All about it here.

[titanII]

All about it here.

Oooooo, purty!

[Huey Driver]

Slight bump, but NJWG is taking delivery of two USAFA gliders within the next month, along with a 2-33 to replace the one wrecked in Sandy. Are any other wings currently taking deliveries?

[SARDOC]

With all of these Gliders that are coming out there...My real question is do these Wings all have a Tow Plane.  We had two gliders in storage for a while until we traded a few airplanes to get one that is Tow Capable...even then this Tow Plane isn't the most reliable maintenance wise. 

[rframe]

What does CAP use as tow planes?  Just adding hooks to 182's, or do they have some Pawnees around for this type of work?  I have to imagine having a sailplane has got to be a huge asset to cadet programs, as many cadets probably still cannot afford to take advantage of CAP-based flight training, but gliding may be quite affordable.

[SARDOC]

Yeah, we've been using a 182 with a Tow Package...There was some talk of a 172 but that just frightened me a little.  I'm not sure the 172 could handle the extra load.

[Eclipse]

What does CAP use as tow planes?  Just adding hooks to 182's, or do they have some Pawnees around for this type of work?

For the most part it is 172's and 182's from the fleet that have tow hooks.  Some wings had Maules, but I think for the most
part those have been retired from the fleet.  The emphasis is on aircraft utilization, and having aircraft which are only
useful as tow planes doesn't make sense in the areas of the country where gliders are put away for the winter.  Many of the Maules
were dusty and unused.

I have to imagine having a sailplane has got to be a huge asset to cadet programs, as many cadets probably still cannot afford to take advantage of CAP-based flight training, but gliding may be quite affordable.

The cadet program provides 5 funded powered and 5 funded glider flights to each cadet (at a minimum), assuming the cadet is interested in taking advantage of the opportunity.  Flight instruction can be provided locally as pilots and planes allow, and we have a  number of flight academies
that provide instruction as well.

The reality, though, is that for whatever reason, many of our cadets are simply not interested in flying, and the logistics of glider operations
usually limits the opportunities to small geographical areas within a wing.

[FastAttack]

my honest opinion.

CAP should completely get out of the glider business and use commercial/ SSA clubs instead.

some of the many reasons:

1) CAP doesn't have to worry about MX on gliders , or try to find a mechanic that can work on these platforms.
2) Added wear and tear on the tow plane , seems to me that National has not ran a study on the added costs associated with towing ( early TBO's , etc)
3) No need for 2 pilots + ground members to run the operation. All you need is 1 pilot and 1 senior on the ground supervising ground operations.
4) CAP Tow pilots are not "Pros" even if you get a seasoned pilot , and trained them , the likeliness of them towing every weekend is remote. Therefore they might not be the best tow pilots even after training.
5) No real MX support. So far I've taken snapshots of the maintenance program at the national level , and I've noticed 1 thing.. The budget for MX for the gliders are non existent
6) Your limited to a very small fleet of gliders. In some states such as Cali , Texas , Florida you'd be lucky to have a CAP glider/tow plane within 200 miles!
7) Glider program support at the National level , is not up to par to the power side. I am not saying they are doing a bad job , but lets be honest. The powered side ( CAP forte of course ) is light years ahead in support / programs / regulations / training vs the glider program.
8) Who is going to pay for the tow pilot training.. regs say 2 tow pilots per year... is that even enough???? . I can tell you from experience with 1 tow plane you at least need 6-8 pilots that are trained to ensure mission success. ( I won't go into how I got that figure)

its great that the AF academy is giving CAP gliders, but without a solid program in place i highly doubt these assets will be used to their potential until something drastically changes as National.

[SarDragon]

Until a couple of our gliders got pranged (no, I don't know the circumstances), we had a very active glider program in southern California. I think we even had a winch launch capability at one time.

I don't know what the current status is.

[PHall]

The Glider Program in SoCal is humming along quite nicely thank you.
Two gliders at the moment with one of the Academy gliders expected in the near future.
A brand new winch and a C-182 tow plane.
They fly almost every Sunday out at Los Alimitos.

[Huey Driver]

Oh, and along with our 3 new gliders to the Wing, we're also getting a winch launch delivered soon:)


Here's 42S if you havne't seen it:


Note the tie-downs and stakes still sited to the wings.

[vento]

Oh, and along with our 3 new gliders to the Wing, we're also getting a winch launch delivered soon:)


Here's 42S if you havne't seen it:


Note the tie-downs and stakes still sited to the wings.

What happened? Tornado?

[SarDragon]

New Jersey is not a hotbed of tornado activity. It is, however, located in an area that has been significantly affected by hurricanes. If you haven't been keeping track of the news in the past couple of months, Hurricane Sandy tore up the entire east coast, from Florida to Maine during the last week of October.

[PHall]

It's not like Hurricane Sandy snuck up on them. So why did they leave the gliders out in the open?
At a minimum they could have disassembled it and stored it in it's trailer in a more secure area.
Even if you didn't have a trailer, disassembling and storing it inside a solid building would have prevented that damage.

[NIN]

It's not like Hurricane Sandy snuck up on them. So why did they leave the gliders out in the open?
At a minimum they could have disassembled it and stored it in it's trailer in a more secure area.
Even if you didn't have a trailer, disassembling and storing it inside a solid building would have prevented that damage.

I don't know that the 2-33s have trailers.

Ours got flooded out a number of years ago when someone neglected to remember that the aircraft parking area was really low lying and it rained pretty badly for a day or two.

[Brad]

We had a Maule that would tow our gliders but then it ended up on its roof after a botched grassy runway landing.

Our glider is still listed as FMC though, an L-23, and we do have glider training now and then, so I'm guessing we're using the Cessnas to get it up there.