Alternate Uniforms

[MIKE]

Vote and discuss.

[Eclipse]

A necessary evil for all but the few units with fully-stocked uniform cabinets who don't have to wait for
NHQ.

Getting cadets into the mindset, if not the actual cloth is important.

[ZigZag911]

The only thing I could see doing is if the unit had a "PT uniform", have the new cadets get that first, faster because no insignia....it is, however, an added expense, unless units found a donor source.

[pixelwonk]

Where is the "I poke you in the eye for creating another poll" option?

What's your motive behind the question?  I'm curious, as it would most likely affect how I'd vote.

[MIKE]

What's your motive behind the question?  I'm curious, as it would most likely affect how I'd vote.

I have an opinion, not sure I would call it a motive... but this is what drove me to poll:

Until the uniform is >complete<, the cadets should wear the alternate.

Not every squadron has an alternate uniform.

[pixelwonk]

Pardon me; I didn't meant to suggest any nefariousness.  It was an alternate choice of words.

Apart from the FCU program and even with hand-me-down BDUs, the cadet's family is still gonna be shelling out a significant amount of money to get their troop squared away.
If the uniform isn't complete, it doesn't seem unreasonable to instruct and expect the C/AB to show up in a ironed white shirt and a pair of pressed khakis, black pants, whatever.

A whole "official" uniform on the other hand... what for?

[CASH172]

Well I would not make a mandatory nation-wide dress code.  A unit commander can reasonably come up with a good alternate uniform until the cadet gets squared away.   

[BlackKnight]

There are plenty of new skills to master in the training flight while a cadet works on assembling their regular uniform (blues, BDUs, or both).  Customs & courtesies, drill, CAP history, respect for the flag, intro to AE, moral leadership, punctuality, and grooming (haircuts, makeup, etc.).   Adding an "alternate uniform" to wear for 4-8 weeks seems like a pointless exercise.  Best to help them to get into the regular uniform as soon as possible. 

I might be biased. The training flight alternate uniform concept reminds me of the silly beanie caps that freshmen used to have to wear at my college alma mater.  It's a way of visually reminding everyone these cadets are doolies, not yet accepted as regular members of the squadron.

[Pylon]

We tried the black t-shirt and jeans thing.  That looked... "okay".   My cadet commander suggested switching out the jeans for BDU pants (since we have hundreds in squadron stock) and black sneakers or boots.  Looks a lot better, IMHO.  They also look like they "fit" the part of cadets in training/new recruits.

We make it clear it's not a uniform, they're only wearing this for orientation, and they can't wear the blouse or CAP insignia, etc.

I don't see a need to mandate this nationally, at least for now.  What works in one squadron may not fit well for another.  One squadron's environment might make khakis and a white dress shirt the best option and at another's - the black shirt and jeans.

[MIKE]

If the uniform isn't complete, it doesn't seem unreasonable to instruct and expect the C/AB to show up in a ironed white shirt and a pair of pressed khakis, black pants, whatever.

A whole "official" uniform on the other hand... what for?

This is what we are talking about.  Units that say wear X type of shirt and Y type of pants so you are "uniform" with the other FNGs... Versus wear appropriate civilian attire. i.e. something you could wear to your average public school and not get sent home... and we'll worry about uniformity when you actually get a uniform.

[Gunner C]

When I was a cadet we had nothing except white shirts, ties, and dark pants.  It was a couple of months before everyone had a uniform (we were a new unit).  Once we got going and got an assortment of blues, everyone got in uniform.

I think an alternate uniform for the new cadets is the way to go.

GC

[AlphaSigOU]

Way back WIWAC when dinosaurs roamed the earth (about 30 years ago), Florida Wing came up with an alternate uniform for cadets below the grade of C/Sgt - the dreaded SMURF SUIT!!!! (Run to the hills... run for your life!  )

It was intended as a transition uniform for new cadets, with relaxed grooming requirements. Cadets could wear their achievement ribbons (at the time the ugly plastic-encased ones) over the CIVIL AIR PATROL nametape. Headgear was an uglier-looking plain 'gimme cap' (aka baseball cap with plastic adjusting strap and mesh back). Once a cadet promoted to C/SSgt, he or she had to ditch the jumpsuit for blues and follow grooming standards

Luckily, both my younger brother and I skipped on having to wear that abomination, since we had transferred from Georgia Wing - which did not have such a uniform - and were already used to wearing blues. Plus - if I remember correctly - there was already a grandfather clause allowing current cadets below C/Sgt to wear blues. Only new cadinks suffered through that indignity. Not to mention the 'happy pocket gaposis' accidentally exposing young cadet unmentionables if one did not adjust them correctly when sitting down. (I'm not sure if those pockets were fixed in later iterations of the 'Smurf Suit'.)

The blue jumpsuit option for cadinks eventually died a slow death; by the early 1980s that option was phased out in Florida Wing.

[Stonewall]

Not 100% I understand the question, but I think it has something to do with new cadets in a "T-Flight" of sorts and wearing an alternate uniform such as blue jeans and polo shirts.  Am I right?  If so....

Yes, it's a must.  I have never let my cadets wear part of a uniform.  Meaning, if they got their BDU tops/bottom, I wouldn't let them wear any of it until they got boots, hat, insignia.  And, I wouldn't let just one of the new cadets wear a complete uniform until all of them had it.

It reminds me of the "turning blue" ceremony at infantry school, where we got our blue infantry cords.  It's a right of passage in a way.

I've done two things:

Blue jeans, belt and black t-shirts (since we wear black under BDUs)

Blue jeans, belt, collared polo or long-sleeve shirt depending on weather.  This way they got an understanding for being well-dressed, thus looking like a better part of society as well as dressing appropriately in lieu of a uniform.

One option we did allow, is if they got their boots, they could wear those to help break them in.

[mikeylikey]

I have a stash of CAP Polo's in various sizes, used to hand it over to the new Cadet, tell them to wear it to meetings with Khaki's.  (Oh my, did I start that trend?) Once they got their "free" blues and we outfitted them with BDU's we took back the polo, washed of course.   

[MIKE]

I have never let my cadets wear part of a uniform.

It is not about wearing incomplete uniforms... It is about those t-shirt and jeans etc alternate "uniforms" versus come as you are normal civies.

[Stonewall]

I have never let my cadets wear part of a uniform.

It is not about wearing incomplete uniforms... It is about those t-shirt and jeans etc alternate "uniforms" versus come as you are normal civies.

Well then, yes.  It is an absolute.  And whether folks think I'm a uniform nazi or think I run a boot camp style cadet program, it's the right thing to do. 

[Maj Ballard]

We have tried it both ways. We used to have new cadets just wear "appropriate civilian attire." In our most recent training group, we had them wear a black t-shirt, jeans with a belt, and sneakers or combat boots.

About three weeks into training, we had them "earn" their squadron t-shirt and hat by completing an all-day aerospace/uniform/drill training field day.

From the beginning, we require a haircut/hairstyle that meets regs. This especially helps the young women, who are often just learning to put their hair up for the first time.

They all wear their complete blues uniform together on week six, at which time they're promoted, getting awards, etc.

In our unit, it worked great. The new cadets felt like they were a part of a group... a team. It created an environment of uniformity. Everyone already had a black t-shirt and jeans, so it didn't present any financial hardship. They were all dressed alike, got their uniforms issued together, sewed on their patches the same week, etc. and wore *correct, complete* uniforms together.

We plan to keep the policy going forward.

[DC]

I really don't see the point in wasting time on an alternate uniform. I try to get my new cadets into uniforms ASAP, and we usually accomplish it within 3 to 4 weeks.

We currently just ask new cadets to wear decent casual civvies, a decent t-shirt and plain jeans. We are working on a new design for a squadron shirt, which we will then require.

We have a fairly decent stock of used blues, our biggest problem is getting the accoutriements, cadets (or their parents) wait for forever to place their order, then it seems to take an eternity to get the items..

We are going to soon launch a T-Flight program, where we will have cadets dress in the aforementioned SQ T-shirt and jeans, then we will get them into BDUs, have a weekend mini-encampment like bivouac, then hopefully families will have had time to size and fit blues, as well as get all of the items for them. After six to eight weeks we will have a graduation/promotion ceremony with the cadets in their blues.

[Maj Ballard]

I really don't see the point in wasting time on an alternate uniform. I try to get my new cadets into uniforms ASAP, and we usually accomplish it within 3 to 4 weeks.

We currently just ask new cadets to wear decent casual civvies, a decent t-shirt and plain jeans. We are working on a new design for a squadron shirt, which we will then require.

We have a fairly decent stock of used blues, our biggest problem is getting the accoutriements, cadets (or their parents) wait for forever to place their order, then it seems to take an eternity to get the items..

We are going to soon launch a T-Flight program, where we will have cadets dress in the aforementioned SQ T-shirt and jeans, then we will get them into BDUs, have a weekend mini-encampment like bivouac, then hopefully families will have had time to size and fit blues, as well as get all of the items for them. After six to eight weeks we will have a graduation/promotion ceremony with the cadets in their blues.

Good luck with that.

Just as a reminder, it's a good idea to consult with (and learn from the mistakes/successes of) other squadrons and leaders in your area.

[flyguy06]

If you require a Squadron T-shirt, do the cadets have to purchase  it or does the unit provide the required item?