UAVS Flown by NON-PILOTS

[Nomex Maximus]

I am currently out of work as a software engineer, so I have been looking at the job boards and the big name defense corporations for work in my field (avionics sw engineer). Along the way I am coming across more and more of these types of listings... the one above is from Northrop for a Palmdale job... Raytheon also advertises, oddly enough for a UAV pilot job out of Indianapolis... I think I have seen others as well.

Specifically tailored for an specific individual? Possibly, but if you had the quals to compete for this type of job, wouldn't you be trying to fly a "real" airplane instead - and put this job opp at the end of your list? I am thinking that it might be a tough sell for the companies to hire a well qualified pilot to do this kind of work... and keep in mind some of these UAVs fly for days at a time... needing several pilots per mission...

Suppose you have an ATP, 2500+ hours of flight time, type ratings, etc, would you take this job?

...me, I'll stick to programming the UAV rather than flying it...

[Earhart1971]

I am currently out of work as a software engineer, so I have been looking at the job boards and the big name defense corporations for work in my field (avionics sw engineer). Along the way I am coming across more and more of these types of listings... the one above is from Northrop for a Palmdale job... Raytheon also advertises, oddly enough for a UAV pilot job out of Indianapolis... I think I have seen others as well.

Specifically tailored for an specific individual? Possibly, but if you had the quals to compete for this type of job, wouldn't you be trying to fly a "real" airplane instead - and put this job opp at the end of your list? I am thinking that it might be a tough sell for the companies to hire a well qualified pilot to do this kind of work... and keep in mind some of these UAVs fly for days at a time... needing several pilots per mission...

Suppose you have an ATP, 2500+ hours of flight time, type ratings, etc, would you take this job?

...me, I'll stick to programming the UAV rather than flying it...

In the past I have applied, (not looking now), never heard a word back. General Atomics is looking right now. My guess you need somebody on the inside.

The Preditor has the same flight characteristics of a Cessna 150, only it can fly for 30 hours.

It is definitely a growth industry.

[SJFedor]

Suppose you have an ATP, 2500+ hours of flight time, type ratings, etc, would you take this job?

If the pay is good, sure, why not? It'd be like playing a big video game and getting paid for it.

Plus, if you get shot down, you just say "fudge it, i'm gonna go get a cup of coffee....my third one of the hour"

*bonus points to who knows where that's from*

[es_g0d]

Steve, you're not getting it!  UAVs are EVIL!  It makes me want to join the dark side just to defeat the evil!  Don't sell out for money.  Stick with your true love, AVIATION!

I stick by my previous statements: UAVs are killing the soul of aviation in the US Air Force.

[Gunner C]

Steve, you're not getting it!  UAVs are EVIL!  It makes me want to join the dark side just to defeat the evil!  Don't sell out for money.  Stick with your true love, AVIATION!

I stick by my previous statements: UAVs are killing the soul of aviation in the US Air Force.

You sound like Lt Dahl. 

[es_g0d]

I'm dead serious.  There's no "Air Force Blues" joking going on.  I enjoyed my (thankfully short) time at Creech AFB, but only because of the off-duty opportunities that I sought out.

I've seen brand-new combat aviators had their hearts ripped out and sentenced to a lifetime of flying a 85 hp rotax motor by remote control.  This thread went around and around with it several weeks ago and doesn't need a revisit.  So no one needs to chime in with, "shut up and do your duty soldier" stuff. 

If you graduate at the top of your class and get an F-15 and subsequently manage to make it through F-15 FTU, then by golly you ought to be an F-15 pilot.  There was one young Lieutenant I knew who had this exact thing happen to him.  Most of those young folks who are being assigned to UAVs will never see a manned cockpit again in the Air Force.

These things were all important data points in my AF career.

[lordmonar]

Well....for the most part I think the USAF has seen the light and they will not be pulling pilots from other platforms.  It will be a few years more before we see full time UAV pilots but the fundemental shift has take place.

[es_g0d]

You're quite right of course, Lord Monar.  I am glad that the USAF has created a "second pipeline" for UAV operators.  It was a needed change that was obvious to the casual observer; unfortunately it took SECDEF attention and a top-down change in Air Force leadership to actually make it happen.  The second pipeline will allow UAV operators to be UAV operators and pilots to be pilots.

Making rated officers "fly" UAVs is like making rated officers "fly" missiles as missileers (and the similarities are MANY).  I have nothing against either honest profession, I have many friends with experience in each, but that is the proverbial square peg in the round hole.

I truly believe that there's too little emphasis on operations -- synonymous with flying -- in the USAF.  UAVs are one more step towards that de-emphasis.

[LittleIronPilot]

Well I can say, as both an aviator AND a tax-payer, *IF* the airframes can come along to the point where they are completely unmanned, I will DEMAND that it happens.

I love aviation, a true nut, trust me. However the "glory" and "heart" of combat aviation is irrelevant to me when it comes to two things: 1) the mission, 2) spending my tax dollars.

While it would absolutely suck to make it all the way through those schools and be parked behind a joystick in a trailer instead of a cockpit, it is only through the grand lottery of life that one gets to be a fighter pilot anyways. So the grand lottery changed the game on you and now you fly UAV's. So be it.

Again I recognize it sucks, but no, EVER, said life was fair.

[blackrain]

Steve, you're not getting it!  UAVs are EVIL!  It makes me want to join the dark side just to defeat the evil!  Don't sell out for money.  Stick with your true love, AVIATION!

I stick by my previous statements: UAVs are killing the soul of aviation in the US Air Force.

As some of you remember I returned not too long ago from a trip to the sandbox and other than an occasional flight on a transport or Blackhawk I was on the ground.

All I can say to those who end up flying UAVs whether they want(ed) to or not should take a trip through the rehab ward at Walter Reed. And they are the lucky ones. I went with a Brigade that lost 23 in 2005-2006

A UAV beat a gun truck on MSR Tampa and a lot of my buddies would agree

[JayT]

Steve, you're not getting it!  UAVs are EVIL!  It makes me want to join the dark side just to defeat the evil!  Don't sell out for money.  Stick with your true love, AVIATION!

I stick by my previous statements: UAVs are killing the soul of aviation in the US Air Force.

As some of you remember I returned not too long ago from a trip to the sandbox and other than an occasional flight on a transport or Blackhawk I was on the ground.

All I can say to those who end up flying UAVs whether they want(ed) to or not should take a trip through the rehab ward at Walter Reed. And they are the lucky ones. I went with a Brigade that lost 23 in 2005-2006

A UAV beat a gun truck on MSR Tampa and a lot of my buddies would agree

Can't beat that argument.

Welcome back.

[es_g0d]

The UAV is a great weapon; its the RIGHT weapon (for MANY reasons) in the war we're fighting.  We need more of them, and soon.  These things are not in contention.

The UAV is killing the soul of the aviator.  THAT is the problem I have with it.

[JayT]

The UAV is a great weapon; its the RIGHT weapon (for MANY reasons) in the war we're fighting.  We need more of them, and soon.  These things are not in contention.

The UAV is killing the soul of the aviator.  THAT is the problem I have with it.

What do I care for the 'soul of the aviator,' as a taxpayer? War get's won by the good guys with minimal collateral damage to civilians, all my airmen come home safe and in one piece for their families. Against that, let the soul of the aviator become something of recreation and private flying.

[blackrain]

I'm the greatest fan of the UAV. It really put and helped put the hurt on the badguys. The badguys were VERY aware that "the sound of the lawnmower above" could bring them trouble and usually did. It had a powerful psycological effect even when it didn't fire a shot. Definitely one of our most effective weapons. Couldn't get enough of them as far as I was concerned.

That said, one thing I missed over there, after my family, was being able to fly. I love it too as a good many on this forum do. But I did the job I was tasked with. The military in general is tasked to deter if possible and win if needed our countries wars at the lowest cost in lives as possible. Many years ago Billy Mitchell made enemies by proving that Airpower would take over from Navalpower. Many then had to adapt to the new reality in warfare just like now. My 2 cents.

Great to be back in the USA

[aveighter]

What do I care for the 'soul of the aviator,' as a taxpayer? War get's won by the good guys with minimal collateral damage to civilians, all my airmen come home safe and in one piece for their families. Against that, let the soul of the aviator become something of recreation and private flying.

And from the mouths of babes comes the wisdom of children. 

Perhaps, young Joseph, you could weigh in on the current economic issues too.

[JayT]

What do I care for the 'soul of the aviator,' as a taxpayer? War get's won by the good guys with minimal collateral damage to civilians, all my airmen come home safe and in one piece for their families. Against that, let the soul of the aviator become something of recreation and private flying.

And from the mouths of babes comes the wisdom of children. 

Perhaps, young Joseph, you could weigh in on the current economic issues too.

Listern, what did I say that was so off base?

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things"

See? I can quote things too.

[RiverAux]

What do I care for the 'soul of the aviator,' as a taxpayer? War get's won by the good guys with minimal collateral damage to civilians, all my airmen come home safe and in one piece for their families. Against that, let the soul of the aviator become something of recreation and private flying.

Although I think that in many cases the missions performed by UAVs could be performed cheaper and as safely by properly equipped manned light aircraft, I have to agree with the statement above.

Who today weeps for the soul of the cavalryman? 

[JayT]

What do I care for the 'soul of the aviator,' as a taxpayer? War get's won by the good guys with minimal collateral damage to civilians, all my airmen come home safe and in one piece for their families. Against that, let the soul of the aviator become something of recreation and private flying.

Although I think that in many cases the missions performed by UAVs could be performed cheaper and as safely by properly equipped manned light aircraft, I have to agree with the statement above.

Who today weeps for the soul of the cavalryman? 

Well, if we're talking about using CAP craft to patrol the border and such for missions on CONUS, they definately. We have the fleet in place, we have the pilots, send the drones overseas!

[RiverAux]

Nope, talking about military missions overseas.  Sure, if you're flying down REAL low, use the drone, but if you're in an area with no surface to air missile or anti-aircraft threat and the drone is flying up fairly high, manned aircraft coud do the job.  Might take a few more of them given human flight time restrictions, but given how much the UAVs cost, you'd probably still come out ahead. 

[Earhart1971]

At some point the Air Force will wake up and smell the coffee.

1. You don't need to use rated Officers to fly a UAV, its over kill, and a waste of resources

2. Non Pilots can be easily trained to fly them.

3. You could easily create a squadron of UAVs with Air Force NCOs and Airmen, with a Rated Officer as the Commander

4. You could Train CAP Cadets to fly them for Home Land Security uses

The Preditor flys like a Cessna 150 and its a Video Game, I think we can train people from scratch with normal teenage Video Gaming experience to fly them. Most CAP Cadets would be better than a 40 year old pilot anyway.

I know some pilots that cannot use computers, they don't know how.