Does CAP use Cessna skymasters? I read that 122nd Special Operations Squadron uses skymasters.
I do not think any of CAP's corporate aircraft are Skymasters.
Not to mention that the Special Operations Squadron is a fictional unit.
First rule of the Special Operations Squadron: You don't talk about the Special Operations Squadron.
Quote from: usafcap1 on September 23, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
Does CAP use Cessna skymasters? I read that 122nd Special Operations Squadron uses skymasters.
OPSEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
The 122nd is still out there, lads. Just sayin'
The 416th, is too, someplace.
I know a person that was in DEVGRU, oooohhhh. Also, I was an Space Shuttle Door Gunner, so Secret Squirrel please.
In the so-called "bad old days"(which were anything but), you could find just about anything on the flight line at a CAP mission base. I have seen Pipers, Beechcrafts(including an antique Staggerwing), all manner of Cessnas, Aeroncas, and Kachinas. This was the days when member owned aircraft dominated and you would see 10-20 aircraft out on the ramp with CAP seal on the tailfin. I don't specifically recall any 337s but I wouldn't discount it. At one mission we used the aforementioned Staggerwing, the Wing CC showed up in a Cessna Citation I or II, and I took an o-ride in a green and white Beech Baron that the Group 19 commander showed up in.
In those days corporate aircraft were not as prevalent as they are now. I doubt you would ever find record of one as a corporate aircraft for the simple reason that most CAP pilots were not multi-engine rated. Even then, you wouldn't buy an airplane that only a small fraction of your pilots could fly.
My 337 was used on several missions in the 70's. Advantage, you could load 3 observers and 2 scanners onboard. Disadvaqnage, hi fuel use, but since USAF was paying was no problem.
BITD (which was a Wednesday, I believe), a guy I knew who was a mission pilot showed up to a practice mission in his personally-owned T-28 Trojan. Him and his GIBS hopped out, sauntered into mission base, and then flew Cessna 172 sorties for the rest of the day in a left-seat/right-seat config. End of the day, fired up the radial and headed home.
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 23, 2012, 01:16:54 PMBTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
Three months in CAP... I wish the OBC was the basis for Level I. Not III.
Quote from: a2capt on September 23, 2012, 03:24:23 PM
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 23, 2012, 01:16:54 PMBTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
Three months in CAP... I wish the OBC was the basis for Level I. Not III.
This is where I generally jump in to complain about "on-line" Level 1.
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 23, 2012, 01:16:54 PM
BTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C909.txt (http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C909.txt)
Quote from: BillB on September 23, 2012, 02:29:44 PM
My 337 was used on several missions in the 70's. Advantage, you could load 3 observers and 2 scanners onboard. Disadvaqnage, hi fuel use, but since USAF was paying was no problem.
Which is why it surprises me GA8 aren't used more in SAR, similar aircrew potential, lower fuel consumption, single engine.
Why limit them to ARCHER missions?
Because the few ARCHER systems still functioning are not permitted to be removed from the aircraft due to the high potential for damage and total lack of replacement parts. That's what you get for deploying a prototype system instead of a production system. The GA-8's without ARCHER systems are used for other missions, including SAR.
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 23, 2012, 01:16:54 PM
BTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
CAP is a federally chartered corporation. The Boy Scouts have a similar charter.
Look at the material at spacecommand's link (http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C909.txt), and also here (http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C403.txt).
Quote from: ol'fido on September 23, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
In the so-called "bad old days"(which were anything but), you could find just about anything on the flight line at a CAP mission base. I have seen Pipers, Beechcrafts(including an antique Staggerwing), all manner of Cessnas, Aeroncas, and Kachinas. This was the days when member owned aircraft dominated and you would see 10-20 aircraft out on the ramp with CAP seal on the tailfin. I don't specifically recall any 337s but I wouldn't discount it. At one mission we used the aforementioned Staggerwing, the Wing CC showed up in a Cessna Citation I or II, and I took an o-ride in a green and white Beech Baron that the Group 19 commander showed up in.
In those days corporate aircraft were not as prevalent as they are now. I doubt you would ever find record of one as a corporate aircraft for the simple reason that most CAP pilots were not multi-engine rated. Even then, you wouldn't buy an airplane that only a small fraction of your pilots could fly.
I was once told a BITD story about a squadron whom had a private owned P2V neptune that they kept in "CAP" colors that was used for searches.....
It sounds a little far feteched to me...but with BITD stories (especially before the interweb) anything is possible.
mk
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 23, 2012, 01:16:54 PM
BTW, why does CAP keep calling it "Corporate" we dont work for an big company. We are an Military AUX.
It's because we ARE a big company. We are a federally chartered 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation. Our aircraft are owned by our corporation, making them corporate aircraft.
Plus it allows me to claim that I fly corporate aircraft. It impresses the chicks. 8)
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 23, 2012, 11:39:45 PM
Plus it allows me to claim that I fly corporate aircraft. It impresses the chicks. 8)
"Here's a picture of my spam can.."
Yeah, that don't last as long as you'd like it to. STS.
Quote from: NIN on September 23, 2012, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 23, 2012, 11:39:45 PM
Plus it allows me to claim that I fly corporate aircraft. It impresses the chicks. 8)
"Here's a picture of my spam can.."
Yeah, that don't last as long as you'd like it to. STS.
Part of the
deception illusion is maintaining a lack of specificity in regards to what constitutes a corporate aircraft when engaged in the
deception illusion. Providing a picture of the "spam can" would add an undesired level of specificity. Must I explain everything?
Corporate aircraft are nothing! I fly aircraft paid for by the USAF. Here's a picture of me in my zoom bag to prove it. That little airplane behind the F-22? Oh, that's some little SAR bird the USAF uses on weekends... 8) >:D ;D
There was a member owned O-2A that was used in CAWG for a couple of years.
If you ever watch the movie Bat 21, that's the airplane. The owner did a fair amount of movie work to help pay the bills.
It is just about the perfect SAR airplane. High wing, lots of windows, twin engine performance.
It just cost an arm and a leg to fly... :(
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 23, 2012, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on September 23, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
In the so-called "bad old days"(which were anything but), you could find just about anything on the flight line at a CAP mission base. I have seen Pipers, Beechcrafts(including an antique Staggerwing), all manner of Cessnas, Aeroncas, and Kachinas. This was the days when member owned aircraft dominated and you would see 10-20 aircraft out on the ramp with CAP seal on the tailfin. I don't specifically recall any 337s but I wouldn't discount it. At one mission we used the aforementioned Staggerwing, the Wing CC showed up in a Cessna Citation I or II, and I took an o-ride in a green and white Beech Baron that the Group 19 commander showed up in.
In those days corporate aircraft were not as prevalent as they are now. I doubt you would ever find record of one as a corporate aircraft for the simple reason that most CAP pilots were not multi-engine rated. Even then, you wouldn't buy an airplane that only a small fraction of your pilots could fly.
I was once told a BITD story about a squadron whom had a private owned P2V neptune that they kept in "CAP" colors that was used for searches.....
It sounds a little far feteched to me...but with BITD stories (especially before the interweb) anything is possible.
mk
Never heard that one. Those two 3350s suck about 390 gal/hr, at an estimated cost of $2500/hr, at today's price for AvGas. Having flown in one a few times, I don't see it as a particularly effective SAR platform.
Quote from: SarDragon on September 24, 2012, 02:12:07 AM
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 23, 2012, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on September 23, 2012, 02:22:46 PM
In the so-called "bad old days"(which were anything but), you could find just about anything on the flight line at a CAP mission base. I have seen Pipers, Beechcrafts(including an antique Staggerwing), all manner of Cessnas, Aeroncas, and Kachinas. This was the days when member owned aircraft dominated and you would see 10-20 aircraft out on the ramp with CAP seal on the tailfin. I don't specifically recall any 337s but I wouldn't discount it. At one mission we used the aforementioned Staggerwing, the Wing CC showed up in a Cessna Citation I or II, and I took an o-ride in a green and white Beech Baron that the Group 19 commander showed up in.
In those days corporate aircraft were not as prevalent as they are now. I doubt you would ever find record of one as a corporate aircraft for the simple reason that most CAP pilots were not multi-engine rated. Even then, you wouldn't buy an airplane that only a small fraction of your pilots could fly.
I was once told a BITD story about a squadron whom had a private owned P2V neptune that they kept in "CAP" colors that was used for searches.....
It sounds a little far feteched to me...but with BITD stories (especially before the interweb) anything is possible.
mk
Never heard that one. Those two 3350s suck about 390 gal/hr, at an estimated cost of $2500/hr, at today's price for AvGas. Having flown in one a few times, I don't see it as a particularly effective SAR platform.
I see it as a very effective search platform...since that is more or less what it was designed for...submarine searches; however not a COST effective search platform (suuposedly with that story was the disclaimer this was before the re-imburse rate was based on the cesna fuel cost/consumption rate.)
on a little research it could be that the person who I heard this from had his airframes confused:
Lockheed P2V Neptune vs Lockheed PV2 Harpoon..... I would much more readily believe the harpoon; apparently there were a large number dumped to civilian market as surplus after WWII.
mk
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 24, 2012, 04:02:12 PM
I see it as a very effective search platform...since that is more or less what it was designed for...submarine searches; however not a COST effective search platform (suuposedly with that story was the disclaimer this was before the re-imburse rate was based on the cesna fuel cost/consumption rate.)
on a little research it could be that the person who I heard this from had his airframes confused:
Lockheed P2V Neptune vs Lockheed PV2 Harpoon..... I would much more readily believe the harpoon; apparently there were a large number dumped to civilian market as surplus after WWII.
mk
The primary search tool in a CAP aircraft is the Mark 1, Mod 0, eyeball. This is not the case with ASW aircraft. Observers play only a small part in the search effort. The primary tools are various electronic sensors that detect subs using different technologies, the most prominent of those being acoustic.
A P-2 (or P-3, its successor) is not a slow platform, nor is it particularly suited for low level flight in the manner CAP uses theirs.
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 24, 2012, 01:18:31 AM
Corporate aircraft are nothing! I fly aircraft paid for by the USAF. Here's a picture of me in my zoom bag to prove it. That little airplane behind the F-22? Oh, that's some little SAR bird the USAF uses on weekends... 8) >:D ;D
Good lord, I think I just heard someone's head explode near the Connecticut River...
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 24, 2012, 01:18:31 AM
Corporate aircraft are nothing! I fly aircraft paid for by the USAF. Here's a picture of me in my zoom bag to prove it. That little airplane behind the F-22? Oh, that's some little SAR bird the USAF uses on weekends... 8) >:D ;D
And yet some folks wonder about our affinity for the zoom bag.
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Come on, Phil, you know how this works: "The good idea fairy."
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Well, they do have some moderate bumps in the terrain called the Alleghenies and the Appalachians in Central Pennsylvania. They need to get up above 5000' MSL to get over some of them safely.
Quote from: SarDragon on September 24, 2012, 10:33:36 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Well, they do have some moderate bumps in the terrain called the Alleghenies and the Appalachians in Central Pennsylvania. They need to get up above 5000' MSL to get over some of them safely.
Heck, that's 300' lower than our runway altitude. :)
Quote from: NIN on September 24, 2012, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Come on, Phil, you know how this works: "The good idea fairy."
More likely the GOB Club...
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 11:26:14 PM
Quote from: NIN on September 24, 2012, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Come on, Phil, you know how this works: "The good idea fairy."
More likely the GOB Club...
There's a difference? ;)
Quote from: SarDragon on September 24, 2012, 11:47:05 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 11:26:14 PM
Quote from: NIN on September 24, 2012, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Come on, Phil, you know how this works: "The good idea fairy."
More likely the GOB Club...
There's a difference? ;)
Yeah, the Good Idea Fairy is a heck of a lot better looking! :o
Got me there, Phil.
BTW, you gonna be at the wing conference?
Quote from: PHall on September 25, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 24, 2012, 11:47:05 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 11:26:14 PM
Quote from: NIN on September 24, 2012, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 24, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: FW on September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
PA Wing had a C337 back in the 80's. It was a nice aircraft but, a maintanence hog. We got rid of it around 1990 and, later, purchased an Aztec.
Why did PAWG need a twin? It's not like you have high pressure altitude problems.
Come on, Phil, you know how this works: "The good idea fairy."
More likely the GOB Club...
There's a difference? ;)
Yeah, the Good Idea Fairy is a heck of a lot better looking! :o
In this case, the "Good Idea Fairy" was the state legislature which authorized the Aztec's purchase. The state attorney general "leased" the aircraft for his use (corporate mission use). It also was used to transport the wing commander and vice commander around the state as, their combined weight was well over 500 lbs.... ;D
Quote from: SarDragon on September 25, 2012, 12:54:17 AM
Got me there, Phil.
BTW, you gonna be at the wing conference?
Yes
Quote from: NIN on September 24, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 24, 2012, 01:18:31 AM
Corporate aircraft are nothing! I fly aircraft paid for by the USAF. Here's a picture of me in my zoom bag to prove it. That little airplane behind the F-22? Oh, that's some little SAR bird the USAF uses on weekends... 8) >:D ;D
Good lord, I think I just heard someone's head explode near the Connecticut River...
:clap:
Quote from: NIN on September 23, 2012, 02:33:58 PM
BITD (which was a Wednesday, I believe), a guy I knew who was a mission pilot showed up to a practice mission in his personally-owned T-28 Trojan. Him and his GIBS hopped out, sauntered into mission base, and then flew Cessna 172 sorties for the rest of the day in a left-seat/right-seat config. End of the day, fired up the radial and headed home.
He grew up. Nowadays, I understand that he shows up in an L-39.