I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
The NCCG competition was combined with NCC a couple years ago. For several years, CAP ran both and awarded different ribbons. In the era of declining membership and over-scheduling of time, and since many units were not able to field a team of 16 cadets for the NCC, CAP combined the activities.
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
...just thinking back to the days when drill teams had 18 members, and some units had more than one team - with a waiting list!
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 15, 2019, 07:31:23 AM
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
...just thinking back to the days when drill teams had 18 members, and some units had more than one team - with a waiting list!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We were one of those squadrons. The big green monster was BAD when one team won state and went to regional's, and the other placed 4th at state. The awards ceremony when we were awarded our NCC ribbons was teetering on hostility. :D
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 15, 2019, 07:31:23 AM
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
...just thinking back to the days when drill teams had 18 members, and some units had more than one team - with a waiting list!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Times have changed Bernie, times have changed.
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 15, 2019, 07:31:23 AM
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
...just thinking back to the days when drill teams had 18 members, and some units had more than one team - with a waiting list!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Times have changed Bernie, times have changed.
Indeed they have. As with many things, it's nice to remember certain aspects of CAPs past.
But, that same CAP that had cadets on 18-Member drill teams had fewer Special Activities and Trainer nowhere close to the number of pilots CAP is turning out now. So, the changing times aren't always bad, just different.
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Quote from: GroundHawg on July 15, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 15, 2019, 07:31:23 AM
Quote from: PHall on July 15, 2019, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: Toad1168 on July 14, 2019, 07:40:04 PM
Quote from: Color Guard Rifleman on July 14, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
I was updating my uniform recently to add the National Cadet Competition ribbon for representing GLR at regional. I noticed that there is a National Cadet Color Guard Competition ribbon, I was wondering if the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition or a section of the Cadet Competition. If the Color Guard ribbon is for a completely separate competition, why have't I heard about it?
It used to be two competitions, now it is one. The GREEN ribbon is the ribbon worn. Not the blue one.
Not really combined. The drill teams have been dropped. It's color guard only now.
Much easier for most units to field a 5 person color guard then a 13 person drill team.
Which is what they intended, to increase participation.
...just thinking back to the days when drill teams had 18 members, and some units had more than one team - with a waiting list!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We were one of those squadrons. The big green monster was BAD when one team won state and went to regional's, and the other placed 4th at state. The awards ceremony when we were awarded our NCC ribbons was teetering on hostility. :D
Those were the days we trained hard to beat the other teams, were we played volleyball religiously and Pt hard. Rivalry was great it give us strength, and a motive. Those days were great.
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^ Yeah. "great".
Teams practicing drill and volleyball (sometimes with paid coaches) for 8-10+ hours a week,
while not progressing or doing anything else in CAP except siphoning off cadets from other activities
and developing an attitude.
Not to mention the custom tailored uniforms that were basically jumpsuits.
Teams blowing through more money then the average encampment budget a year.
"Great".
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
^ Yeah. "great".
Teams practicing drill and volleyball (sometimes with paid coaches) for 8-10+ hours a week,
while not progressing or doing anything else in CAP except siphoning off cadets from other activities
and developing an attitude.
Not to mention the custom tailored uniforms that were basically jumpsuits.
Teams blowing through more money then the average encampment budget a year.
"Great".
Greatness wears many hats. For many cadets from the 50's to the 70's, drill team was the big focus for one simple reason - there was little else, especially in the cities or the rural areas. I-rides weren't a formality yet. Cadet Special Activities were few and usually required the Mitchell Award. ES wasn't a tangible for many. That left drill team and Encampment. With drill competitions being just that, no volleyball, no timed runs, just drill. And uniforms were simple - 505s/1505s same as at the Squadron meetings.
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 16, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
^ Yeah. "great".
Teams practicing drill and volleyball (sometimes with paid coaches) for 8-10+ hours a week,
while not progressing or doing anything else in CAP except siphoning off cadets from other activities
and developing an attitude.
Not to mention the custom tailored uniforms that were basically jumpsuits.
Teams blowing through more money then the average encampment budget a year.
"Great".
Greatness wears many hats. For many cadets from the 50's to the 70's, drill team was the big focus for one simple reason - there was little else, especially in the cities or the rural areas. I-rides weren't a formality yet. Cadet Special Activities were few and usually required the Mitchell Award. ES wasn't a tangible for many. That left drill team and Encampment. With drill competitions being just that, no volleyball, no timed runs, just drill. And uniforms were simple - 505s/1505s same as at the Squadron meetings.
Eclipse describes the result of leadership (at all levels) allowing drill teams to derail cadet programs. NHQ could have stopped the custom-fit uniform teams early on, by just saying "no". Local commanders could have stopped it by not paying for coaches. Leaders of cadets could have stopped the siphoning of cadets by managing their programs and keeping the focus on the entirety of the cadet program, and not just one aspect.
Done properly, drill team covered all aspects of cadet program curriculum. Throw in some ES training and you had yourself a pretty successful unit.
As a squadron commander (mid-2000's), I didn't allow our team to go down the rabbit hole of custom-fit uniforms or private coaches. Our teams wore the exact same uniforms to competition as they did to regular meetings. They did PT, drill, rocketry, ES, etc. just like everyone else in the unit. About 8 weeks prior to competition, those who really wanted to compete, were able to spend an extra 2 hours on Saturdays practicing. Attitudes were kept in check by making sure it was known that anyone thinking they were somehow special/superior, not actively participating, or lagging behind and not promoting as they should, would not be selected to go to the competition.
Sometimes they won :) , sometimes they lost :( .
What was more important than
winning competition was
going to competition.
Also, the cost of admission per cadet was lower. Color guard competition has loaded costs at the front end... hundreds of dollars for flags, rifles, and equipment which is for the benefit of only 6 cadets. But, since every cadet already had a basic uniform, and I didn't allow "special" competition uniforms, our drill team benefited 13-18 cadets for the cost of transportation.
(http://mcchord.org/images/ncc2004/team_photo.jpg) (http://mcchord.org/images/ncc2004/standard_drill.jpg)
Quote from: baronet68 on July 16, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Sometimes they won :) , sometimes they lost :( .
Oh yeah, and that one time they made it to Region... they came in dead-last and still managed to have a great time.
Not saying the uniforms or volleyball was everything, however we have a motive back in the mid 90's in Puerto Rico.
Just have to count also the preparation for academics, the years and hours of preparation. It seems every cadet in the drill team had the knowledge to reach Spaatz. Specially the cadets from Cesario Rosanieves Squadron which won just about every competition in PRW for years. Now the same squadron goes to NCC SWR Compt. again and again.
Our motivation was just to dethrone them but never could, they were and still are good. Cheers!!!!
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And yet with all that...the whole group is wearing the
cords incorrectly.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 08:44:55 PM
And yet with all that...the whole group is wearing the
cords incorrectly.
Not incorrectly... for 2004. ;)
Quote from: baronet68 on July 16, 2019, 09:13:02 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 08:44:55 PM
And yet with all that...the whole group is wearing the
cords incorrectly.
Not incorrectly... for 2004. ;)
Cord location didn't change until the Honor Guard crap came along. They should have never changed the location.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 08:44:55 PM
And yet with all that...the whole group is wearing the
cords incorrectly.
Congrats on reaching thirty thousand posts.
Cords were worn that way until '05 or '06.
Quote from: PHall on July 17, 2019, 12:23:49 AM
Cord location didn't change until the Honor Guard crap came along. They should have never changed the location.
They look ridiculous that way, especially on older cadets - looks like it shrunk in the dryer.
Also, saying they were "worn that way" before 2005 is somewhat of a benevolent interpretation
of 39-1, which, in keeping with CAP tradition, lumped Shoulder cords along with "fourrageres and lanyards",
and then only showed a diagram of a fourrageres, which admittedly are generally worn on the button.
The 1997 39-1 refers to 52-16 for more detail, and the 1998 52-16 refers to 39-1, neither with more
details or other diagrams.
So the CAP circle of life is complete.
Quote from: baronet68 on July 16, 2019, 08:26:21 PMNHQ could have stopped the custom-fit uniform teams early on, by just saying "no".
I know the team that came from around here for the first two years still bought all the cadets tailored uniforms, even though NHQ tried to discourage that by the change in the competition process (I think they removed uniform inspections entirely). When I asked about it, I was told to be a winner, you had to feel like a winner, and that meant looking like a winner. ::)
As usual, it's the little league parents that are the problem and not the players.
Quote from: baronet68 on July 16, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 16, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 16, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
^ Yeah. "great".
Teams practicing drill and volleyball (sometimes with paid coaches) for 8-10+ hours a week,
while not progressing or doing anything else in CAP except siphoning off cadets from other activities
and developing an attitude.
Not to mention the custom tailored uniforms that were basically jumpsuits.
Teams blowing through more money then the average encampment budget a year.
"Great".
Greatness wears many hats. For many cadets from the 50's to the 70's, drill team was the big focus for one simple reason - there was little else, especially in the cities or the rural areas. I-rides weren't a formality yet. Cadet Special Activities were few and usually required the Mitchell Award. ES wasn't a tangible for many. That left drill team and Encampment. With drill competitions being just that, no volleyball, no timed runs, just drill. And uniforms were simple - 505s/1505s same as at the Squadron meetings.
Eclipse describes the result of leadership (at all levels) allowing drill teams to derail cadet programs. NHQ could have stopped the custom-fit uniform teams early on, by just saying "no". Local commanders could have stopped it by not paying for coaches. Leaders of cadets could have stopped the siphoning of cadets by managing their programs and keeping the focus on the entirety of the cadet program, and not just one aspect.
Done properly, drill team covered all aspects of cadet program curriculum. Throw in some ES training and you had yourself a pretty successful unit.
As a squadron commander (mid-2000's), I didn't allow our team to go down the rabbit hole of custom-fit uniforms or private coaches. Our teams wore the exact same uniforms to competition as they did to regular meetings. They did PT, drill, rocketry, ES, etc. just like everyone else in the unit. About 8 weeks prior to competition, those who really wanted to compete, were able to spend an extra 2 hours on Saturdays practicing. Attitudes were kept in check by making sure it was known that anyone thinking they were somehow special/superior, not actively participating, or lagging behind and not promoting as they should, would not be selected to go to the competition.
Sometimes they won :) , sometimes they lost :( .
What was more important than winning competition was going to competition.
Also, the cost of admission per cadet was lower. Color guard competition has loaded costs at the front end... hundreds of dollars for flags, rifles, and equipment which is for the benefit of only 6 cadets. But, since every cadet already had a basic uniform, and I didn't allow "special" competition uniforms, our drill team benefited 13-18 cadets for the cost of transportation.
(http://mcchord.org/images/ncc2004/team_photo.jpg) (http://mcchord.org/images/ncc2004/standard_drill.jpg)
Your memories of coaches and custom fit memories are of a time long past my memories of the 60's and 70's. I like my memories. You seem to have some bitterness about yours. You're entitled to it.
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 18, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
Your memories of coaches and custom fit memories are of a time long past my memories of the 60's and 70's.
"Time Long Past?" Hardly.
NCC was paused in 2013, the issues mentioned ran right up to that pause.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17790.0
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 18, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
Your memories of coaches and custom fit memories are of a time long past my memories of the 60's and 70's.
"Time Long Past?" Hardly.
NCC was paused in 2013, the issues mentioned ran right up to that pause.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17790.0
What are you even talking about? As stated, memories were of the 1960's and 1970's. His were of the 2000's. By what accounting would that gap not be considered "long past?"
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Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 19, 2019, 06:09:12 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 18, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
Your memories of coaches and custom fit memories are of a time long past my memories of the 60's and 70's.
"Time Long Past?" Hardly.
NCC was paused in 2013, the issues mentioned ran right up to that pause.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17790.0
What are you even talking about? As stated, memories were of the 1960's and 1970's. His were of the 2000's. By what accounting would that gap not be considered "long past?"
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There were teams who were still doing the custom tailored, only wear in competition uniforms right up to the break.
That's what he was talking about.
The Drill Team world of the 60's and 70's was not the Drill Team world of the 2000's. It had gotten much, much more expensive.
Yup. Think "Drill Team Moms", except more drama.
Quote from: PHall on July 19, 2019, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 19, 2019, 06:09:12 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on July 18, 2019, 09:32:42 PM
Your memories of coaches and custom fit memories are of a time long past my memories of the 60's and 70's.
"Time Long Past?" Hardly.
NCC was paused in 2013, the issues mentioned ran right up to that pause.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17790.0
What are you even talking about? As stated, memories were of the 1960's and 1970's. His were of the 2000's. By what accounting would that gap not be considered "long past?"
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There were teams who were still doing the custom tailored, only wear in competition uniforms right up to the break.
That's what he was talking about.
The Drill Team world of the 60's and 70's was not the Drill Team world of the 2000's. It had gotten much, much more expensive.
Which was exactly my point. I have no memories whatsoever of "the Drill Team world of the 2000's. The last time I attended drill comp as a judge was 1975.
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Are we done with our measuring contest here?
Yup, thought so.
Fork; done.